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Preservation Of The Saints

Carbon

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For those of you who may not know, there are 5 points of Calvinism, with Preservation Of The Saints being the fifth point. They are in this order.
What Are the Five Points of Calvinism?
  • T: Total Depravity.
  • U: Unconditional Election.
  • L: Limited Atonement.
  • I: Irresistible Grace.
  • P: Perseverance of the Saints.
Strangely, this doctrine is only Reformed, as there is not a single church of Christendom outside the Reformed group, which maintains the biblical doctrine of the Preservation Of The Saints. The Roman Catholics, the Lutherans, all the various types of Arminians, and a great host of sects all agree that it is possible for persons who have received God's saving grace in their souls, to lose such saving grace and to sink down into eternal death.

Only those Christians, who are of the Reformed faith, subscribe to the view that a person who has once received the life that is from above, can never fall away from grace and become prey to everlasting destruction.
 
For those of you who may not know, there are 5 points of Calvinism, with Preservation Of The Saints being the fifth point. They are in this order.
What Are the Five Points of Calvinism?
  • T: Total Depravity.
  • U: Unconditional Election.
  • L: Limited Atonement.
  • I: Irresistible Grace.
  • P: Perseverance of the Saints.
Strangely, this doctrine is only Reformed, as there is not a single church of Christendom outside the Reformed group, which maintains the biblical doctrine of the Preservation Of The Saints. The Roman Catholics, the Lutherans, all the various types of Arminians, and a great host of sects all agree that it is possible for persons who have received God's saving grace in their souls, to lose such saving grace and to sink down into eternal death.

Only those Christians, who are of the Reformed faith, subscribe to the view that a person who has once received the life that is from above, can never fall away from grace and become prey to everlasting destruction.
I think some do but it is just something they believe without having any doctrinal or scriptural basis for it. I began in a non-denominational charismatic!!! church (but that is not where I was converted, That was in my home, snug in my bed). My own belief that we could not lose our salvation from the get go was that if we are purchased by Jesus with His shed blood, then we are purchased.

As Reformed I have the scriptural backing and understanding. Which it a much more solid foundation.
 
So, what do we mean when we confess the Preservation Of The Saints? We do not mean that true Christians are immune to sin. Every Christian commits sin every day of their lives. We dont mean that it is impossible for true Christians to desist from the exercise of saving faith. Some true Christians do sometimes neglect the exercise of faith to such an extent, that they dwell in a morbid gloom for many days, and they fall an easy prey to many temptations.

Apart from the continuous influx of the life of Christ into the soul of the Christian, the new life of the Christian cannot continue, let alone flourish. Whatever a Christian may do in compliance with the calling wherewith he has been called, it ever remains true that it is God, and God alone who gives the increase.
But we do mean, that God, having once implanted the new life in the soul of the elect, never forsakes the work of His hands.
 
I think some do but it is just something they believe without having any doctrinal or scriptural basis for it.
Makes sense.
I began in a non-denominational charismatic!!! church (but that is not where I was converted, That was in my home, snug in my bed). My own belief that we could not lose our salvation from the get go was that if we are purchased by Jesus with His shed blood, then we are purchased.

As Reformed I have the scriptural backing and understanding. Which it a much more solid foundation.
I do know Arminisns are not settled on it. Some (most) say salvation can be lost, some say it cannot. In this sense, I agree.
 
For those of you who may not know, there are 5 points of Calvinism, with Preservation Of The Saints being the fifth point. They are in this order.
What Are the Five Points of Calvinism?
  • T: Total Depravity.
  • U: Unconditional Election.
  • L: Limited Atonement.
  • I: Irresistible Grace.
  • P: Perseverance of the Saints.
Strangely, this doctrine is only Reformed, as there is not a single church of Christendom outside the Reformed group, which maintains the biblical doctrine of the Preservation Of The Saints. The Roman Catholics, the Lutherans, all the various types of Arminians, and a great host of sects all agree that it is possible for persons who have received God's saving grace in their souls, to lose such saving grace and to sink down into eternal death.

Only those Christians, who are of the Reformed faith, subscribe to the view that a person who has once received the life that is from above, can never fall away from grace and become prey to everlasting destruction.
Might be more accurate to point out that the many many who believe in Eternal Security, some of whom even hate the Reformed, are still of the Reformation but don't realize that it is a Reformed Doctrine, but rather accept it as "just is true" or "Biblical". Most believers I know are anything but Calvinists or Reformed. But they do believe OSAS. They do believe that what God has begun he will complete. I know many who admit to believing all but Limited Atonement.
 
I came to this understanding before I studied Calvin as well as I came to understand the realty of being included in Christ’s Cross, Resurrection and Ascension.
Salvation is relocation.
 
A Born Again, cannot be un- birthed from the Spirit of God....salvation can never be lost if one has been Born Of The Spirit.

The Holy Spirit keeps me persevering, who indwells my heart, many a falling out with the Spirit as I have had....I say ,I’m not doing this anymore, I’ve had enough...the amount of hissy fits along the way.

All meant to be, as I am now at a place of full assurance that God is in control....waiting, which seems to have been forever in a certain situation, has taught me great patience in that area.

I know in my spirit that he is working out everything according to his purpose and plan.....so far it’s been an incredible journey.....in retrospect....I’m just so happy that I am at peace and just resting in Him now.

He’s also shown me that I’m at the place where “ HE” wants me to be.
 
For those of you who may not know, there are 5 points of Calvinism, with Preservation Of The Saints being the fifth point. They are in this order.
What Are the Five Points of Calvinism?
  • T: Total Depravity.
  • U: Unconditional Election.
  • L: Limited Atonement.
  • I: Irresistible Grace.
  • P: Perseverance of the Saints.
Strangely, this doctrine is only Reformed, as there is not a single church of Christendom outside the Reformed group, which maintains the biblical doctrine of the Preservation Of The Saints. The Roman Catholics, the Lutherans, all the various types of Arminians, and a great host of sects all agree that it is possible for persons who have received God's saving grace in their souls, to lose such saving grace and to sink down into eternal death.

Only those Christians, who are of the Reformed faith, subscribe to the view that a person who has once received the life that is from above, can never fall away from grace and become prey to everlasting destruction.
Much to say....so I'll say little.
At one time I believed you could lose your salvation...until I studied it.
The following verse spoke loudly....
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
.....No one can snatch you out of their hands....To be snatched means you have lost or have had your salvation stolen. But, the bible says that can't happen.
Even if at a later time in life you decide for yourself not to be a Christ follower..."saved"...you remain saved as you can't even snatch yourself from their hands. Or, that which convinced you to stop following Christ, changed your mind, doesn't have the ability to snatch you.

Here's where I speak of Heb. 6 being about blessing rather than salvation....and how it doesn't "trump" snatching....but that's for later.

Now, I do believe there is the perception of being snatched. But of those you might say....
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.
 
I came to this understanding before I studied Calvin as well as I came to understand the realty of being included in Christ’s Cross, Resurrection and Ascension.
Salvation is relocation.
I’m going to have a good read and study of Salvation is relocation....that you wrote...I briefly read it at one time, but, wasn’t in a good place, I’m in a great place of peace at the moment and am pretty eager to read it tonight with a cup of tea and ham roll, my quiet time when all my chores are done in the house...any questions Alive...what thread can I ask them on?...thanks.
 
I’m going to have a good read and study of Salvation is relocation....that you wrote...I briefly read it at one time, but, wasn’t in a good place, I’m in a great place of peace at the moment and am pretty eager to read it tonight with a cup of tea and ham roll, my quiet time when all my chores are done in the house...any questions Alive...what thread can I ask them on?...thanks.
Ask then right there, Rita. Or wherever you like.
 
Might be more accurate to point out that the many many who believe in Eternal Security, some of whom even hate the Reformed, are still of the Reformation but don't realize that it is a Reformed Doctrine, but rather accept it as "just is true" or "Biblical". Most believers I know are anything but Calvinists or Reformed. But they do believe OSAS. They do believe that what God has begun he will complete. I know many who admit to believing all but Limited Atonement.
Great point
 
Might be more accurate to point out that the many many who believe in Eternal Security, some of whom even hate the Reformed, are still of the Reformation but don't realize that it is a Reformed Doctrine, but rather accept it as "just is true" or "Biblical". Most believers I know are anything but Calvinists or Reformed.
Yes, that is a much more accurate and excellent way of explaining it. Thank you.
 
But they do believe OSAS.
Do you agree with the OSAS? I have an issue with it. I believe there are many problems with it by many reformed.
 
Here's where I speak of Heb. 6 being about blessing rather than salvation....and how it doesn't "trump" snatching....but that's for later
Not sure what you mean here about Hebrews 6 (assuming you mean vs: 4-6) being about blessing rather than salvation.

Just trying to get on the same page. Sorry for any confusion.
 
Do you agree with the OSAS? I have an issue with it. I believe there are many problems with it by many reformed.
I know you didn’t ask me, but if I may…I am fully convinced that one that is ‘In Christ’ will ever be there.
Eternal Life…Christ Life…cannot be terminated.
The Gospel is incredibly simple.
I died, I was raised in new Life and now my Life is hidden in Christ with God.
 
I know you didn’t ask me, but if I may…I am fully convinced that one that is ‘In Christ’ will ever be there.
Eternal Life…Christ Life…cannot be terminated.
The Gospel is incredibly simple.
I died, I was raised in new Life and now my Life is hidden in Christ with God.
I agree brother.
I just think the term has been misleading.
 
@Alive

The term can promote antinominism
Yes…I understand as most all free willers will say something like,”so you can do whatever you wish, with no consequences”.
 
For those of you who may not know, there are 5 points of Calvinism, with Preservation Of The Saints being the fifth point. They are in this order.
What Are the Five Points of Calvinism?
  • T: Total Depravity.
  • U: Unconditional Election.
  • L: Limited Atonement.
  • I: Irresistible Grace.
  • P: Perseverance of the Saints.
Strangely, this doctrine is only Reformed, as there is not a single church of Christendom outside the Reformed group, which maintains the biblical doctrine of the Preservation Of The Saints. The Roman Catholics, the Lutherans, all the various types of Arminians, and a great host of sects all agree that it is possible for persons who have received God's saving grace in their souls, to lose such saving grace and to sink down into eternal death.

Only those Christians, who are of the Reformed faith, subscribe to the view that a person who has once received the life that is from above, can never fall away from grace and become prey to everlasting destruction.
To be fair, Luther held, and the conservative Lutheran sects hold while it is possible it is extremely rare and unlikely. They take a weird view simultaneously subscribing to the possibility of losing salvation and knowing eternal security 🤨. For that reason, I do not place them in the same group as the soteriological volitionalists. From the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod page:

"Lutherans believe both are true and Scriptural: It is possible for a believer to fall from faith and lose salvation, and it is possible for a believer to have complete assurance of eternal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. If this seems paradoxical to human reason, then (Lutherans say) this is only because the teaching of Scripture itself on this issue (as on many other issues) appears paradoxical to human reason. For Lutherans, this is essentially a matter of properly distinguishing between Law and Gospel: Warnings against falling from faith are the strongest form of God's Law, intended to warn against "carnal security" based on "good works" or against the attitude that "since I'm saved, I can do anything I want to do." Assurances of God's constant and eternal love in Christ are the sweetest and purest form of Gospel, intended to comfort those who are plagued by their sins and by their failures to keep God's Law perfectly."

And

"Lutherans believe that faith is created and strengthened not by looking inside of one's self (to one's own faith and/or doubts) but by looking outside of one's self (to God's Word and promises in Christ). Therefore, assurance of salvation is to be sought by looking to God's Word and promises in Christ (which create and strengthen the faith through which one is saved), not by looking inward at the strength or weakness of one's own faith (which creates either pride and false assurance or doubt and lack of assurance). Anxiety regarding doubts, strength of faith and certainty of salvation are signs of faith (however weak it may be), not signs of unbelief, since the unbeliever has no concern or anxiety about doubts, faith or salvation."

Which is overwhelmingly human-centric, not God centric ☹️. For that reason, the LCSM hasn't truly addressed the matter from the Calvinist pov, which couches salvation wholly, monergistically in God and not pre- or post-salvific conditions of the one being saved. It's still a huge problem, but not like that of the volitionalists, which claim the still-dead-in-sin sinner can, with the faculties of his sinful flesh choose God 🤮.

Excerpted for the sake of space...

"The key question you seem to be asking is this: Is what Paul says in Romans 3 (e.g., v. 28 "...we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of law") "an attack on good works as being a means for salvation?" As you no doubt are aware, the central and consistent teaching of Paul that we are justified by grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ is nowhere more beautifully summarized than in Eph. 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God — not because of works ..." By its very definition "grace" means that human works do not contribute in any way to a person's salvation or justification, as St. Paul says in Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace." ........The faith of which Paul speaks, of course, is a living faith in Jesus Christ that produces, by God's Spirit, the good works that God wills be done in the Christian's life. That is why, immediately after his beautiful summary of the Gospel in Eph. 2:8-9, he continues, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." ..........Or as Luther again put it once, as an apple tree makes fruit and the fruit does not make an apple tree, so works do not make a Christian, but a Christian does good works."

Which is, imo, inconsistent because not only do apple trees make apples, they do not make apples that lose their appleness 😯. Once an apple, always an apple. And, technically, apples do make apple trees. The apple falls to the ground and decays, providing fertilizer for the seed, which dies and then produces a new tree (see Genesis 1 ;)).

The Lutheran pov inconsistently couches the salvation of sin monergistically in God, but then hands the result or conclusion of God's work over to the then-saved sinner. Very odd. The volitionalists couch salvation in the faculties of the unregenerate sinful unbeliever and then hand over the result to the faculty of the regenerate believer without any assurance God's goal will ever be accomplished. I am not one prone to appeals to ridicule, but that's not odd; that's irrationally insane.
 
And a bear is a bear and remains so until he dies, not matter how much he wants to be an Eagle.
 
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