Our incomprehensible God.

[grace2]

Try using scripture.

Jesus says not to throw pearls at the pigs.

 

[grace2]

Then don’t read them.

I have not, but you guys keep on asking me questions.

 

[grace2]

Awesome verses!
But sadly, scripture does not seem to help with some.

Sadly too many of you misuse the scripture.

 

[Binyawmene]

Awesome verses!
But sadly, scripture does not seem to help with some.

It's sad. And it's strange that a BU believe Jesus is the angel that refused worship.

Revelation 1:1-2, 19:10, 22:8-9, 16

There is a clear distinction in verse 16. Jesus is not that angel. That's what is weird about free-thinking Unitarians. They claim they are from a particular cultic group of Unitarianism. But one minute they are Arians, then JW, then Christadelphianism, and the Oneness, etc. It can get hard isolating them to a particular cultic group of Unitarianism. It's like they carried around with every wind of doctrine or adopt anything their itchy will listen too.

 

[Arial]

It will be blooming soon. I will show you when that happens.

All I have blooming is only rose bushes which is beautiful too.

My one rose bush, a climber, is fully leafed and starting to bud. Nothing blooming yet, a tulip giving it a good go at it. Maybe by tomorrow. According to the calendar, it isn't even planting time yet, but the weather is saying something different. But my Lavendar and Yarrow and tiger lillies are flourishing.

I look forward to seeing your pictures. There is a special section for photos and @ me when you send them. @David1701 has some awesome photos of Scotland there.

 

[Arial]

they address me with questions.

Drat it! The nerve!

 

[Carbon]

This is very serious.
Our Lord Jesus said, And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:1. Compare that with, 1 John 5:20.
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Both of these texts tell us that it is eternal life for to believe that the Father and the Son are the only true God, and therefore this is a fundamental point.
And it's plain to see the scriptures speak expressly that these three, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit are one, one God; for the witness or testimony delivered by these three is the witness of God.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7.
v:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

There is just no way around this. If anyone denies this they are pretty much an atheist.

 

[fastfredy0]

1 John 5:20.
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Both of these texts tell us that it is eternal life for to believe that the Father and the Son are the only true God, and therefore this is a fundamental point.

I also believe on must believe Jesus is God to be saved. I use verses:
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit
John 20:31 and 1 John 5:13

I read an interesting exposition by by Rick Brown https://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/17_4_PDFs/02_Brown_Beliefs_hw.pdf ... the title is: What Must One Believe about Jesus for Salvation?

Interestingly, he did not agree that one must believe Christ is God to be saved.

 

[Carbon]

I also believe on must believe Jesus is God to be saved. I use verses:
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit
John 20:31 and 1 John 5:13

I read an interesting exposition by by Rick Brown https://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/17_4_PDFs/02_Brown_Beliefs_hw.pdf ... the title is: What Must One Believe about Jesus for Salvation?

Interestingly, he did not agree that one must believe Christ is God to be saved.

Amen brother!

 

[Carbon]

And what mere man is capable of this?

23 And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him.

24 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.

25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him! Matthew 8.

28 Then they cry unto the Lord in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses.

29 He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still. Psalm 107.

Or this.

4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?

5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. John 18.

 

[Runningman]

Do you know how to harmonize scriptures?

Pitting scriptures against scriptures, example:
Isaiah 42:8 <---> 2 Peter 1:17
Luke 4:5-8 <---> Philippians 2:10-11

That's the Trinity framework:
- To worship and glorify the Father is to worship and glorify the Son and the Holy Spirit.
- To worship and glorify the Son is to worship and glorify the Father and the Holy Spirit.
- To worship and glorify the Holy Spirit is to worship and glorify the Father and the Son.

Nicene Creed
And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.

I don't think you know how to harmonize scriptures.

Funny you're asking me about harmonizing scripture. Harmonizing scripture is my middle name. Do you think the Nicene Creed is scripture? Do you see that you're trying to harmonize scripture with a philosophy some guy made up?

Let's say what scripture is before we harmonize it. What did Jesus say Scripture is when he quoted it or referred to it? He wasn't referring to Paul's letters or the miscellaneous texts we now refer to as the New Testament. He often quoted the Old Testament, like in Matthew 21:42 for example.

What did Philip do when he encountered an Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8? Philip ran up and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet and said “Do you understand what you are reading?” Using Isaiah as a beginning point, Philip preached the good news about Jesus.

All of those Bereans who searched the Scripture daily to see if what Paul was saying is true in Acts 17 weren't self-referencing Paul's words against themselves, but seeing if Paul was scriptural based on the Law and Prophets.

So harmonizing the scriptures you say? Where is Jesus saying or doing anything in the Old Testament?

 

[Runningman]

You absolutely are not. Give me a definition of "the full counsel of scripture". Give me an example of you not using verses/passages that are not isolated from their context and also isolated from the full counsel of God. Go ahead. I suspect this post of mine will never be directly answered.

Your post is being answered.

Let's do it like Jesus did then. So what did Jesus say in Matthew 21:42? He quoted the counsel of Scripture, referring to Psalm 118:22,23

Matthew 21​

42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:​

‘The stone the builders rejected​

has become the cornerstone.​

This is from the Lord,​

and it is marvelous in our eyes’​

But on the matter of the cornerstone, is the cornerstone God or is the cornerstone not God, but someone that God installed in Zion? Jesus is the cornerstone and God laid the cornerstone. Paul understood this clearly in Romans 10:11, but what Scripture did Paul quote?

Romans 10​

11It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”​

Paul was quoting from Isaiah 28:16:

Isaiah 28​

16So this is what the Lord GOD says:​

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,​

a tested stone,​

a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;​

the one who believes will never be shaken.​

Look at that. The New Testament can be cross-referenced with the Old Testament. YHWH was the one who laid the precious cornerstone? Then Jesus isn't YHWH. YHWH is God, Jesus is the cornerstone.

Acts 4​

11This Jesus is​

‘the stone you builders rejected,​

which has become the cornerstone.’​

The full counsel of scripture says Jesus isn't God. Do you believe the Scripture?

 

[Runningman]

I also believe on must believe Jesus is God to be saved.

Doesn't actually exist in the Bible. I would be careful telling people to do something as important as how to be saved when you can't actually tell them where it says that in the Bible.

I use verses:
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit
John 20:31 and 1 John 5:13

Jesus Christ coming in the flesh isn't the same thing as saying that God came in the flesh. The Bible repeatedly says Jesus is a man.

Does this sound like Jesus is God?

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

I read an interesting exposition by by Rick Brown https://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/17_4_PDFs/02_Brown_Beliefs_hw.pdf ... the title is: What Must One Believe about Jesus for Salvation?

Interestingly, he did not agree that one must believe Christ is God to be saved.

I agree with Rick Brown on that particular point.

 

[Runningman]

It's sad. And it's strange that a BU believe Jesus is the angel that refused worship.

Revelation 1:1-2, 19:10, 22:8-9, 16

There is a clear distinction in verse 16. Jesus is not that angel. That's what is weird about free-thinking Unitarians. They claim they are from a particular cultic group of Unitarianism. But one minute they are Arians, then JW, then Christadelphianism, and the Oneness, etc. It can get hard isolating them to a particular cultic group of Unitarianism. It's like they carried around with every wind of doctrine or adopt anything their itchy will listen too.

Why not though? The Bible says that when God brings Jesus back that Jesus has the voice of a "archangel" or what would literally mean the chief messenger. If Jesus is God why say he has the voice of a messenger rather than the voice of Godf? Why is the messenger in Revelation 22:8-13 apparently Jesus who refused to be worshipped as God?

1 Thessalonians 4
14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

 

[Binyawmene]

Harmonizing scripture is my middle name.

Here is an excellent example of someone who doesn't know how to harmonize scriptures. All that person did was pit scriptures against scriptures. It probably was his first time hearing the word "Hypostatic Union."

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/a-trinity-of-reality.1404/page-4#post-57213

From the link, if you scroll to post 71, I made it clearer and more articulate. I stated:

We call this the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union. Because there is a structural pattern found in Scriptures of Jesus Christ's Divine attributes as God and Human attributes as Man. For example, this is evident from the fact that Jesus Christ has divine intelligence being omniscient and his human intelligence that increased. You can also say, "Jesus Christ is"... "both omniscient and ignorant," "both omnipresent and localized," and "both omnipotent and powerless". The list goes on and on. If we know "this" and we know "that" about Jesus Christ, then Scriptures as a whole don't contradict but harmonizes.​

Let me know when you can harmonize this:

- The Son receives glory from the Father

1. The Father glorifies the Son (Isaiah 42:8, Hebrews 1:3, 2 Peter 1:17).
2. At the Son's water baptism (Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22).
3. At the Son's transfiguration (Matthew 17:5, Mark 9:7, Luke 9:35).
4. Before the Son's passion (John 8:54, 12:23, 27-30, 13:31-32, 17:1, 5, 24).
5. The Father and the Son shares glory (John 11:4, 17:10, Revelations 5:11-13).​

- The Son is worshiped

1. Worshiped God only (Luke 4:5-8, Deuteronomy 6:13-15).
2. The Son is worshiped by three wise men (Matthew 2:2, 11).
3. The Son is worshiped by Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew 28:9).
4. The Son is worshiped by the disciples (Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:17, Luke 24:52).
5. The Son is worshiped by all angels (Hebrews 1:6, Revelations 5:11-12).
6. The Son is worshiped by every creature (Revelations 5:13).​

Your conclusion would be: "The Son is not Lord." Only thing that tells the readers is that you don't know how to harmonize.

 

[Binyawmene]

The Bible says that when God brings Jesus back that Jesus has the voice of a "archangel" or what would literally mean the chief messenger.

You sound more like a JW than a BU. You are shifting the goal post and bouncing around everywhere. We are talking an angel that Jesus sent and that angel who rejected John's worship. It must be hard for you to accept when you are wrong Scripturally.

 

[grace2]

Drat it! The nerve!

I have been claiming I only point out your deceptive doctrines.

You have so many of them.

 

[grace2]

Why not though? The Bible says that when God brings Jesus back that Jesus has the voice of a "archangel" or what would literally mean the chief messenger. If Jesus is God why say he has the voice of a messenger rather than the voice of Godf? Why is the messenger in Revelation 22:8-13 apparently Jesus who refused to be worshipped as God?

1 Thessalonians 4
14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

Are you aware he is not reading your claims?

 

[grace2]

My one rose bush, a climber, is fully leafed and starting to bud. Nothing blooming yet, a tulip giving it a good go at it. Maybe by tomorrow. According to the calendar, it isn't even planting time yet, but the weather is saying something different. But my Lavendar and Yarrow and tiger lillies are flourishing.

I look forward to seeing your pictures. There is a special section for photos and @ me when you send them. @David1701 has some awesome photos of Scotland there.

where is the photo section?

 

[Runningman]

You sound more like a JW than a BU.

Are you Roman Catholic? They believe Jesus is God.

You are shifting the goal post and bouncing around everywhere. We are talking an angel that Jesus sent and that angel who rejected John's worship. It must be hard for you to accept when you are wrong Scripturally.

We are talking about the messenger who is Jesus. Read Revelation 22:8 again. The messenger said to John "I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets."

So the messenger is a fellow servant? Acts 3:13 and Acts 4:27 say Jesus is a servant.
Then John 20:17 calls the apostles Jesus' brothers.

Literal angelic beings are never said to be fellow servants of people, but rather servants of people according to Hebrews 1:14.

Revelation 22:8 is talking about Jesus rejecting being worshipped as God.