Original Sin - and the sin nature

[Ghada]

Jesus the Son of man is not the Lord of lords as the Christ . He is the first born of all the sons of God .

Jesus Christ the Son of man on earth was the God of Israel come in the flesh.

The resurrected man Christ Jesus is the risen God of Israel sitting on the right hand of the Father.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus Christ the Son of man on earth was the God of Israel come in the flesh.

The resurrected man Christ Jesus is the risen God of Israel sitting on the right hand of the Father.

The Son of man Jesus was a man on earth no different that you or I . God as our Father, His Holy Spirit worked in Jesus just as he does with all those born again form above.

God is not a Jewish man The idea he is is to blaspheme the Holy name of our Father in heaven.

 

[Ghada]

The Son of man Jesus was a man on earth no different that you or I . God as our Father, His Holy Spirit worked in Jesus just as he does with all those born again form above.

God is not a Jewish man The idea he is is to blaspheme the Holy name of our Father in heaven.

Hey, you don't want to confess Jesus is both Lord and God, it's no sweat to me.

For me, it can be more important to have honest character in a debate, than correct answers. At least then we know who we're dealing with.

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

 

[Mr GLee]

Hey, you don't want to confess Jesus is both Lord and God, it's no sweat to me.

For me, it can be more important to have honest character in a debate, than correct answers. At least then we know who we're dealing with.

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Jesus as the son of man dying mankind? Or Jesus (savior)the Christ reckoned by the eternal Holy Father?

No man can serve two good teaching masters as 1 invisible Lord

I confess Jesus the Son of man is not God .Those who worship the dying flesh and blood of the son of man invite the wrath of God .

romans 1: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (Jesus the son of man ) more than the Creator,(our Holy Father) who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Ghada]

I confess Jesus the Son of man is not God .

Got it. It didn't have to take so long just to state your unbelief. There are plenty of people that don't believe the Word was made flesh.

Those who worship the dying flesh and blood of the son of man invite the wrath of God .

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Your efforts to make worshipping the Word and Son in the flesh, as being idolatry of the flesh, is a childish effort to cover your idolatry of worshipping a created christ.

It's no big deal to me what you believe or not. You don't have to get intellectually insulting about it.

romans 1: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (Jesus the son of man ) more than the Creator,(our Holy Father) who is blessed for ever. Amen.

There's always a cause for unbelief in the Bible. In this case, it's the usual reason: Refusing to repent of sinning and serve the Lord Jesus Christ in righteousness and true holiness.

As I said, it doesn't matter to me what you believe or how you live. I just prefer open disclosure when having a debate about the Bible.

 

[Mr GLee]

Got it. It didn't have to take so long just to state your unbelief. There are plenty of people that don't believe the Word was made flesh.

Hi thanks for the reply

LOL Got it. There are plenty of people that think worshiping the creation "Jesus the Son of man" above than of the invisible Father teaching it is a biblical doctrine .

Roman1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,(Jesu the Son of man ) even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Roman1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (Jesus the Son of man" more than the Creator( Father), who is blessed for ever. Amen.

God is not a man in any way shape or form and neither is there any fleshly infalible interpreters as Lord of lords.

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Your efforts to make worshipping the Word and Son in the flesh, as being idolatry of the flesh, is a childish effort to cover your idolatry of worshipping a created christ.

It's no big deal to me what you believe or not. You don't have to get intellectually insulting about it.

Thanks for the reply .

No one is insulting your intellect. I do challenge your interpretation style .

They was no worshipping the dying flesh of Baby Jesus They understood the prophecy of God was fulfilled and worshiped Christ not seen .

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born,(not God Almighty is born ) unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

They were part of the many that have known Christ after the flesh. God has no flesh and blood . he works in dying mankind.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Yes Son of God the firstborn of many born again .Not one has received the promise of a new incorruptible body

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Ghada]

Hi thanks for the reply

There are plenty of people that think worshiping the creation "Jesus the Son of man" above than of the invisible Father teaching it is a biblical doctrine .

There's always a difference seen between honest disagreement, and dishonest misrepresentation.

You honestly don't believe God the Word was made flesh, and so I say so.

But then you accuse others of worshipping God the Son 'above' God the Father, rather than with Him and the Holy Ghost.

Lying about others' teaching of the Bible, is the sure sign of lying about Bible teaching.

No one is insulting your intellect.

What I mean is your insults to what I teach by purposely misstating them, is on a childish level insulting to intelligence.

First you reshape worshipping the Son who came in the flesh as worshipping the flesh. Now you reshape worshipping the Son with the Father, as worshipping the Son above the Father.

The point is, you're too obvious in your efforts to falsify things into something obviously false. The serpent likes his lies at least with a little subtlety.

They was no worshipping the dying flesh of Baby Jesus

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him:

This is where the light shines and the darkness comprehends it not. Like Peter says, it's being willingly ignorant of the truth of simple words in a Book, by contradicting it so openly.

They understood the prophecy of God was fulfilled and worshiped Christ not seen .

Some people don't want to know the truth, so they don't even read it. But only the delusional don't want to know the truth, and then try to change it into a 'spiritualized' joke.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Yes Son of God the firstborn of many born again .Not one has received the promise of a new incorruptible body

Once again, trying to reshape things of others into an obvious lie, that the resurrection is already past.

 

[Mr GLee]

There's always a difference seen between honest disagreement, and dishonest misrepresentation.

You honestly don't believe God the Word was made flesh, and so I say so.

But then you accuse others of worshipping God the Son 'above' God the Father, rather than with Him and the Holy Ghost.

Lying about others' teaching of the Bible, is the sure sign of lying about Bible teaching.

Not sure why you desire to turn the creation the temporal Son of man Jesu our brother in the lord . .formed by our Father the one Creator ?

"Let there be" and it was "God alone good? The law of Christ faith or called a labor of his Love,

Why worship the Son of man Jesus that the Father worked in dying mankind to both will and do his own good pleasure ? jesu the Son of man replied Not as I will with "no power" to raise himself from the dead but you Holy Father with all the power

What I mean is your insults to what I teach by purposely misstating them, is on a childish level insulting to intelligence.

First you reshape worshipping the Son who came in the flesh as worshipping the flesh. Now you reshape worshipping the Son with the Father, as worshipping the Son above the Father.

The point is, you're too obvious in your efforts to falsify things into something obviously false. The serpent likes his lies at least with a little subtlety

How did I mitstate your interpretation? By saying God is not a man ?Are you preaching God is a man ?

Where did the idea come that we are worship the dying flesh of mankind? And you are preaching we should worship the flesh of dying mankind above the faithful Creator our Holy Father . Perhaps reading why the wrath comes slower and studying what it is teaching rather than teaching our brother in the Lord Jesus the Son of man is eternal God

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God (eternal invisible ) into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (temporal dying)more than the Creator,(eternal invisible ) who is blessed for ever. Amen

Jesus the Son of man is our brother in the lord not the father the Creator he is not ashamed to call us brother and sister in the new born again family

The Father gives us two witnesses

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my( the son of man, Jesus) Father (eternal God) )which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Is Jesus your born again brother in the Lord or is he your Father?

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

[donadams]

Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Enmities total war, none of satan’s works found in Her immaculate purity)

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(Immaculate purity, full of grace, blessed)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Mary must have immaculate purity)

Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Preserved from all sin in virtue of the merits of the blood of the savior who is Her son)

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
(Immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)

Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity)

Gen 3:15
Lk 1:28
Lk 1:35
Lk 1:47
*Lk 1:49
Song of S. 1:2 & 2:1-2 & 4:1 & 4:7
Rev 12:1
Ex 25:8-13
Matt 5:8
Job 14:4
Ps 93:5
Sirach 24:22-28

—————————-

Immaculate conception and the Four spiritual laws:

2) Man is sinful and separated from God, so we cannot know Him personally or experience His love.
Man is Sinful.

3) Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man's sin. Through Him alone we can know God personally and experience God's love.
He Died in Our Place.

4) We must individually receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord; then we can know God personally and experience His love.
We Must Receive Christ.

Knowing this how can scripture say:

Lk 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

“Full of grace”

“Lord is with Mary”
(not Mary is with the Lord)

“Blessed”

The only possibility is the “immaculate conception” by the power of God thru the future merits of the passion and death of Jesus Christ! Amen! Lk 1:37 Lk 1:49

————————-

Sinners and God are enemies, We have all been exiled from the Garden Paradise in Adam and cursed by God, relationship severed; under condemnation, bondage to sin, death and Satan. As you stated above our sinful nature is now to follow our desires, like our first parents in the Garden. We don't want God, but want to be like gods! This is pertinent to understanding how far we have fallen. And what it takes to redeem us from this disastrous predicament we are in. Man cannot save himself from it, for he is already under a curse and condemned! Serving and following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body, and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

———————————

Mary is was the immaculate conception?

The pure of heart shall see God. Matt 5:8

Because of Her immaculate Conception and being filled with the plenitude of divine grace Mary from her mother’s womb saw the beatific vision of God in heaven on His throne, and was consumed with love and desire for God and His will, she dedicated and consecrated and sacrificed her entire being to Him forever, and began interceding and imploring God’s grace and mercy!
And the coming of the messiah the savior of the world!

The pure of heart shall see God. Matt 5:8






Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).

Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months so if holiness befits God’s house would not Mary be holy also? Just like the Ark and the Tabernacle she was set apart and consecrated to the Lord., the holy dwelling of God.

1 cor 3:17 …..for the temple of God is holy….. Mary is the temple, house, dwelling of God, God had need of Her to become man!

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).

 

[donadams]

A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

A Good tree cannot bear bad fruit!
A biblical principle approved by Jesus even though He knew it would be used to defend His sinless mother!


Cannot give enough glory to Mary!

Lk 2:32 a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Jesus is the fruit of Mary!
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, Mary is the mother of the light of the world and if the son receives glory Mary receives glory, if the sin is holy Mary is holy!

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit!

If Jesus is the fruit of Mary and the glory of Israel then so is Mary!

A good tree must bear good fruit!

 

[Ghada]

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).

The error here is making a person pure of heart, just because the flesh is made by Christ natural and clean from sin.

That would apply to any person in the flesh on earth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The only thing immaculate about any natural conception of man and woman on earth, is if the body is formed without defect.

There's no reason to believe Mary was born lame. And Jesus certainly wasn't.

And the man born blind had nothing to do with sin nor righteousness of his parents, nor his conception.

And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Men and women being born with sin is an old Jewish fable, that Jesus' dsicples are corrected from.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, that turn from the truth.

The unbelieving Jews certainly believed in it:

They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

She was an earthen vessel no different from any other woman's earthen vessel on earth. Other than the rounded belly of course.

1 cor 3:17 …..for the temple of God is holy….. Mary is the temple, house, dwelling of God,

So, am I now in Christ Jesus. Don't call me Mary.

God had need of Her to become man!

He had need of a faithful daughter of Israel in the bloodline of David.

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate

True. No marks nor defects nor deformity mentioned in the Bible.

because Mary was pure and immaculate.

Probably the same for Mary and her womb.

 

[Mr GLee]

2) Man is sinful and separated from God, so we cannot know Him personally or experience His love.
Man is Sinful.

3) Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man's sin. Through Him alone we can know God personally and experience God's love.
He Died in Our Place.

4) We must individually receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord; then we can know God personally and experience His love.
We Must Receive Christ.

Knowing this how can scripture say:

Lk 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

All born again believers full of grace coming from the mercy of God .

Full grace. The full price of salvation, Someteach our sister in the lord alone received it. . . a lie of the evil one

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets (oral traditions of fathers ) also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers (teaching doctrines of dying mankind) among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Mary received the fullness of Christ just like any born again believer.

Why must Catholics teach all of mankind received a unknowable remnant of grace except Mary our sister in the lord .Where did that kind of idea come from?

 

[donadams]

The error here is making a person pure of heart, just because the flesh is made by Christ natural and clean from sin.

That would apply to any person in the flesh on earth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The only thing immaculate about any natural conception of man and woman on earth, is if the body is formed without defect.

There's no reason to believe Mary was born lame. And Jesus certainly wasn't.

And the man born blind had nothing to do with sin nor righteousness of his parents, nor his conception.

And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Men and women being born with sin is an old Jewish fable, that Jesus' dsicples are corrected from.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, that turn from the truth.

The unbelieving Jews certainly believed in it:

They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.



But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

She was an earthen vessel no different from any other woman's earthen vessel on earth. Other than the rounded belly of course.



So, am I now in Christ Jesus. Don't call me Mary.



He had need of a faithful daughter of Israel in the bloodline of David.


True. No marks nor defects nor deformity mentioned in the Bible.



Probably the same for Mary and her womb.

Mary’s womb was sacred!

 

[donadams]

All born again believers full of grace coming from the mercy of God .

Full grace. The full price of salvation, Someteach our sister in the lord alone received it. . . a lie of the evil one

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets (oral traditions of fathers ) also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers (teaching doctrines of dying mankind) among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Mary received the fullness of Christ just like any born again believer.

Why must Catholics teach all of mankind received an unknowable remnant of grace except Mary our sister in the lord .Where did that kind of idea come from?

Christ!
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[donadams]

Christ!
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

All born again believers full of grace coming from the mercy of God .

Full grace. The full price of salvation, Someteach our sister in the lord alone received it. . . a lie of the evil one

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets (oral traditions of fathers ) also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers (teaching doctrines of dying mankind) among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Mary received the fullness of Christ just like any born again believer.

Why must Catholics teach all of mankind received a unknowable remnant of grace except Mary our sister in the lord .Where did that kind of idea come from?

How do you get born again?

 

[Mr GLee]

How do you get born again?

Faith = power

Learn how to walk or understand after the unseen things of God not after the temporal dying things seen the church. God not dying mankind. Born again faith. You and God alone.

 

[Mr GLee]

Hey, you don't want to confess Jesus is both Lord and God, it's no sweat to me.

For me, it can be more important to have honest character in a debate, than correct answers. At least then we know who we're dealing with.

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Yes Jesus the Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God . Not Jesus the Son of man dying mankind

It the goal of Satan to deceive all the nations of the world to believe eternal God is a Jewish man as King of kings .

God is not a man .To believe he was is to invite the wrath of God

 

[donadams]

Faith = power

Learn how to walk or understand after the unseen things of God not after the temporal dying things seen the church. God not dying mankind. Born again faith. You and God alone.

Why does scripture acts 2:42 say they kept the doctrine of the apostles who are dying mankind?

Born again water and the spirit
Not faith alone Jn 3:5

 

[Ghada]

Mary’s womb was sacred!

Hey, you want to worship her womb, go right ahead. Man has worshipped all sorts of created things, so why not a womb?

Some fornicators, adulterers, and whoremongerers worship wombs of women.

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.

Doesn't bother me. I only rebuke anything taught for doctrine of Christ, that is not confirmed by Scripture of Christ's prophets and apostles.

I also explain it in detail. And as here, not many false teachers even acknowledge the details explained.

 

[Ghada]

Yes Jesus the Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God . Not Jesus the Son of man dying mankind

It the goal of Satan to deceive all the nations of the world to believe eternal God is a Jewish man as King of kings .

God is not a man .To believe he was is to invite the wrath of God

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

The wisdom of Christ says it's time for me to move on.