Original Sin - and the sin nature

[JIM]

A dead spirit produces trespasses and sins. Nothing contradictory about that. I believe the actual phrase is "dead in trespasses and sins".

No! ! ! You have it backwards. Trespasses and sins produce a dead spirit. Trespasses and sins are the product of the flesh not the spirit. The flesh sins and the spirit suffers the consequences.

 

[3 Resurrections]

No! ! ! You have it backwards. Trespasses and sins produce a dead spirit. Trespasses and sins are the product of the flesh not the spirit. The flesh sins and the spirit suffers the consequences.

Christ already gave us a description of where evil emerges from. The "bad fruit" originates from a "bad tree", not the other way around (Matthew 12:33). Once a tree is "made good", its fruit will be good.

Christ also told us, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man." (Mark 7:21-23).

 

[JIM]

Christ already gave us a description of where evil emerges from. The "bad fruit" originates from a "bad tree", not the other way around (Matthew 12:33). Once a tree is "made good", its fruit will be good.

Christ also told us, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man." (Mark 7:21-23).

All those things are of the flesh, not the spirit.

 

[3 Resurrections]

All those things are of the flesh, not the spirit.

A corrupted spirit produces all that wicked fruit, as Christ said.

 

[turbomaniac]

Sin is all the action that separate us from the God Word, Jesus Christ. Since Adam and Eve Sinned every human was born a sinner. Mary also was born sinner but She was the first human that lost Adam sin in order to consieve in flesh and blood the God Word, Jesus Christ, the 2nd entity of the Holy Trinity. After Jesus Christ Church babtised humans with the Holy Spirit the Sin of Adam leaves and Human is ready to join again Jesus Christ. Problem is that human continue to sin after baptisme so they loose again this Grace and the holy Spirit is abandoning Human again. So we have to stop making sins in order to have again the Holy Spirit. And oh boy we are making tones of sins!

 

[JIM]

A corrupted spirit produces all that wicked fruit, as Christ said.

NO ! The wicket fruit of the flesh is what corrupted the spirit.

 

[3 Resurrections]

NO ! The wicket fruit of the flesh is what corrupted the spirit.

You can't have wicked "fruit" without having it originate from a wicked "tree". Christ presented this as something pretty basic. "A tree is known by its fruit."

 

[JIM]

Christ already gave us a description of where evil emerges from. The "bad fruit" originates from a "bad tree", not the other way around (Matthew 12:33). Once a tree is "made good", its fruit will be good.

Christ also told us, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man." (Mark 7:21-23).

You can't have wicked "fruit" without having it originate from a wicked "tree". Christ presented this as something pretty basic. "A tree is known by its fruit."

Mark 7:21-23

For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

Every one of those evil things derive from the flesh. That is what sin is. They do not arise from the spirit. That is the message of both Jesus and Paul. Paul described that very definitely in Romans 7. The wicked tree that you are looking for is the human body, the flesh of man. The fruit is "all these evil things", the sins. The net result is the death of the spirit. That is why even with being born again to bring the spirit back to life, there continues to be sin in the life of the regenerated, because regeneration doesn't change the body, the flesh of man.

Paul said, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death" (Roma 7:25-8:2)

 

[Mr GLee]

It is amazing that you can read Romans 5:12 and think that supports your view on original sin.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--

So according to that verse, why did death spread to all men? Because Adam sinned? That is not what it says. It says that death spread to all men because all men sinned -- What then was Adam's contribution? No direct contribution at all. Adam was the door into the world through which sin entered. That was it. He was the first to sin. And as a result, Adam was the first to die spiritually due to that sin. But nothing in that verse even hints at god's imputing Adam's sin to the rest of humanity.

Original sin not a biblical doctrine of God clearly inspired from earth we try the spirits to see if inspired from above .

Original sin is a phrase as a oral tradition of men (I heard it through the fathers grape vine) Pharisee with Sadducees today other sects of government of venerable dying mankind men that lord it over the faith or understanding of the non-venerable. Huma goverment in place of the government of our Holy Father as Lord.

They make sola scriptura. God's governing living law without effect . No such thing as original sin Just makes room for sufferings and wondering in the place of the dead . disembodied worker with familiar spirits gods .Paganism

Original compared to what false prophecy (oral traditions) false apostles.

Mankind's death was fleshy as well spiritual unseen . a body without a spirt is dead like in really dead the origan dead never to rise.

Peter coming from Phariseeism had a difficult time learning how to walk by faith the understanding of unseen things of God . he would of been one that followed a law of men using the idea of original sin.(a hope that dead is not really dead.

The original Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Whose original voice the first above our eternal Holy Father? of father lies below .

Genesis 3; 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

I choose the first the original (Holy Father) some take the second the counterfeit (father of lies.)

Back to the example of Peter our brother in the lord. Just after being reinstated again and again . Peter still under the influence of false prophets false apostles (oral tradition of men) Peter in jealously over John runs to town and prophesied the idea of original sin (not really dead) . Spreading false prophecy that John would never die.

Jesus said if every time the Holy Father, Holy See did the works of exposing the father of lies as oral traditions of dying mankind we would need a bigger plant to store the volumes upon volumes .

John 21: 23-25 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Why put ones living hope in purgatory or Limbo the sufferings and wondering doctrine of man ? . Born again believers receive the end from the original beginning (1 Peter 1:11)



Original sin . . . But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

 

[JIM]

Original sin not a biblical doctrine of God clearly inspired from earth we try the spirits to see if inspired from above .

Original sin is a phrase as a oral tradition of men (I heard it through the fathers grape vine) Pharisee with Sadducees today other sects of government of venerable dying mankind men that lord it over the faith or understanding of the non-venerable. Huma goverment in place of the government of our Holy Father as Lord.

They make sola scriptura. God's governing living law without effect . No such thing as original sin Just makes room for sufferings and wondering in the place of the dead . disembodied worker with familiar spirits gods .Paganism

Original compared to what false prophecy (oral traditions) false apostles.

Mankind's death was fleshy as well spiritual unseen . a body without a spirt is dead like in really dead the origan dead never to rise.

Peter coming from Phariseeism had a difficult time learning how to walk by faith the understanding of unseen things of God . he would of been one that followed a law of men using the idea of original sin.(a hope that dead is not really dead.

The original Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Whose original voice the first above our eternal Holy Father? of father lies below .

Genesis 3; 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

I choose the first the original (Holy Father) some take the second the counterfeit (father of lies.)

Back to the example of Peter our brother in the lord. Just after being reinstated again and again . Peter still under the influence of false prophets false apostles (oral tradition of men) Peter in jealously over John runs to town and prophesied the idea of original sin (not really dead) . Spreading false prophecy that John would never die.

Jesus said if every time the Holy Father, Holy See did the works of exposing the father of lies as oral traditions of dying mankind we would need a bigger plant to store the volumes upon volumes .

John 21: 23-25 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Why put ones living hope in purgatory or Limbo the sufferings and wondering doctrine of man ? . Born again believers receive the end from the original beginning (1 Peter 1:11)



Original sin . . . But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

I must say that I am having a bit of a hard time understanding what it is that you are trying to say.

My position in all of this is that yes there was an original sin, a first sin, a first sin to enter the world. In reality that sin was Eve's, but it is, in scripture, laid at the feet of Adam. The result of that first sin was that Adam died spiritually. The only other thing that resulted directly from Adam's sin. was that God ejected him from the Garden. There would have been additional impacts upon humanity were it not for the righteousness of Jesus Christ in His obedience at the cross. Whatever impact upon humanity might have resulted from the sin of Adam was negated completely by Jesus death on the cross (Rom 5:12-19).

 

[Odë:hgöd]

~
The so-called fallen nature is commonly believed to be propagated via reproduction.
Oh? Whence did Eve get it?

She was already fully sentient and fully constructed from material taken from
Adam's body prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after
his wife was already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the fallen
nature to her by means of reproduction.

In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had something to
do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I seriously doubt it
because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she did, nothing happened. She
remained just as comfortable in the buff as before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the
fruit that she began to feel indecent; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is
far more serious than the chemistry of that fruit.

FAQ: If Eve's altered moral perception wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to inheriting
it from Adam when she was constructed with materail taken from his body; then what?

REPLY: Mr. Serpent is the logical source, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) He has the
power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the
human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment that
Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it takes effect.
Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both immediately set to work
cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she tasted the
forbidden fruit?

REPLY: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into the
world, they would come via a lone male's actions just as life and righteousness
would later be offered to the world via a lone male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of the
womb?

REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (cf. Ps 51:5 & 58:3)

** I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting blame away
from himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to believe parents
propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the Serpent all along. Jesus' statement:
"You are of your father the Devil" wasn't idle slander; rather, it was 100% fact.
(John 8:44)
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

~
Christianity alleges that mortality is universal due to the effects of the first man's
conduct.

He was forbidden to eat from a specific tree. Long story short, he did anyway;
which eventuated in his death. However, the man's mortality came as no surprise
seeing as how he was fully aware of the consequences for stepping over the line.

Now the thing: the man wasn't alone eating from that tree. In accord with a very
strange aspect of justice-- that I have thus far found impossible to understand --the
man's entire posterity was included as joint principals with him in the act, viz: not
in their own time, but in his time, i.e. the very moment that the incident occurred.

● Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin
brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

"for everyone sinned" is grammatically past tense. So then Romans isn't talking
about the sins that Adam's posterity commit during their own lives, no, it's talking
about the first man's life, viz: Adam's forbidden-fruit sin.

FAQ: Was Adam's conduct Hell-worthy?

REPLY: No; the appropriate consequence for the forbidden-fruit incident is mortality.
So when people pass away, that particular matter is settled once and for all.

FAQ: Was Jesus implicated too? After all: it is very easy to show the first man was
among Jesus' paternal ancestors.

REPLY: Yes, had Jesus not been executed he would've eventually died of some
other cause.

FAQ: How then can it be truthfully said he was a lamb without spot or blemish?

REPLY: Jesus committed no personal sins of his own to answer for. (John 8:29,
2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)
_

 

[Mr GLee]

I must say that I am having a bit of a hard time understanding what it is that you are trying to say.

My position in all of this is that yes there was an original sin, a first sin, a first sin to enter the world. In reality that sin was Eve's, but it is, in scripture, laid at the feet of Adam. The result of that first sin was that Adam died spiritually. The only other thing that resulted directly from Adam's sin. was that God ejected him from the Garden. There would have been additional impacts upon humanity were it not for the righteousness of Jesus Christ in His obedience at the cross. Whatever impact upon humanity might have resulted from the sin of Adam was negated completely by Jesus death on the cross (Rom 5:12-19).

Yes, Eve was used as the first false prophet, false apostle Not sent by God. Sent the devil the father of lies. Choosing the weaker vessel women

Adam believed the lie knowing the truth revealed by God . He as the head did not protect her. . virtue was lost. . mankind fell.

 

[Ghada]

When I see false teaching I like to bring it up for discussion and expose it for the false teaching it is.

This is a good practice. It includes proving from the Bible what God's true teaching is, and so proves what is not:

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Both spiritual and natural. Christ is not the Maker of anything sinful, neither spiritual nor natural.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Christ lightens every man born into the world. He does not darken any babe at birth.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is not doing righteousness is not of God.
Christ is not the maker of children of the devil from the womb. Neither does the god of this world make his own sinful offspring from the womb, because nothing is made without Christ. Nor is the devil a creator nor maker of anything but a lie.

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Conceived and born children of the devil is not the reward and heritage of the true God.

So far, we see 4 distinct accusations against God and His Christ: That Christ is the Maker of sin and sinners. That Christ darkens men with spiritual blindness at birth. That God creates children for the devil in the womb. That the reward and heritage of the Lord is devils born of women.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
God judges everyone by our works. Babes have no works to judge.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Being dead to God is only by sinning against God, and our own soul. Being conceived in the womb and born into the world is not an act of the babe, much less a sin of the babe against God and it's own soul.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
It's death that passes upon man, not sin. Death passes upon man by sinning. And since all men have sinned, after coming into the world, then death has passed upon all men.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Being dead to God is in sinning and trespassing, not in conception and birth.

Sinning is by man, and death is by sinning. No babe is made dead by Christ in the womb, nor blinded by Christ coming into the world.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The natural body prepared for the Christ by the Spirit from Mary's womb, was of the seed of David, Abraham, Noah, Seth, Adam...The same natural seed of all men and women coming into the world.

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.

Jesus Christ came in the same flesh and one blood of all men and women on earth. He did not come with a supernatural body, that no natural born man can follow and walk with by example.

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

The virgin birth was for a sign of the coming Christ of God, not for bypassing the seed and flesh of David, Abraham, Noah...

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Preaching a christ come in immortal unnatural flesh, is not a man but is a god or demigod of pagan myth.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

This is God's response to the old lie, that it is God that is the first sinner, by creating man sinful. And therefore it is God that also tempts man to sin, by making man with a 'sin nature' in the womb. I.e. "It's not my fault I do such things, because it's God who made me this way..."

We see then that the doctrine of Christ making man sinful in and from the womb, is obviously Satan's false accusation against God, that God first made Lucifer that way, and then Adam that way.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

So, exactly why does anyone want to believe in the lie against God and His Christ, that all men are conceived and born dead sinners from the womb?

Well, since most all who believe that lie, also preach sinning to the grave. That by this evil 'sin nature' created by Christ and imputed into the womb, it is therefore impossible for any man to be without sin in this life and sin not.

That begs the question though: Since it's Christ who makes man sinful in the first place, why then must they try to preach the Word not being made with natural flesh and blood of man? I mean, if it's good enough for God to create, then why not for God to become?

It's truly amazing how some unrepented sinners, in order to justify their unrepented sinning, can make for themselves a god that is maker of their sin, and yet have their own god to good to be what he himself makes on earth every day: Sinful babes in the womb and sin-cursed devils from the womb.

But then, no one can ever accuse that old serpent the devil of being 'fair'. Maybe that's why some people say, "Life is not fair." Afterall, if we are all created and made to be sinners from the womb, and condemned for sinning as made, then what in the world of kingdom come is fair about that??

 

[Ghada]

~
Christianity alleges that mortality is universal due to the effects of the first man's
conduct.

Why do people think Christians don't come up with their own traditions to teach for doctrine of Christ, but only the Jews did?

He was forbidden to eat from a specific tree. Long story short, he did anyway;
which eventuated in his death. However, the man's mortality came as no surprise
seeing as how he was fully aware of the consequences for stepping over the line.

Only the carnal mind believes natural death of the body is by sinning of the soul.

In the day that any man sins with the body, his soul dies to God. All flesh and blood dies naturally on earth. Just as the grass.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

● Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin
brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

Changing Scripture to support a carnal tradition of men, is not surprising.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
When man sins, sin enters into the world. Death to God passes upon men by the soul sinning.

Sin does not enter into, nor does death pass upon any man by the womb. But only by sinning after the womb. Even as Adam did.

"for everyone sinned" is grammatically past tense. So then Romans isn't talking
about the sins that Adam's posterity commit during their own lives, no, it's talking
about the first man's life,

While it's almost standard practice to twist Scripture to fit false tradition, it's not necessary to insult the intelligence by obvious sophistry.

That all men have sinned, does not men that all men have sinned, but only that one man has sinned.

All teaching is concluded as foolish, when even a child can know that normal grammar is being thrown aside.

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

viz: Adam's forbidden-fruit sin.

It was God's fruit, that He forbid to eat. The fruit was not sinful. But the disobedience was the sin. Even as the flesh is not sinful, but disobedience with the flesh is the sin.

FAQ: Was Adam's conduct Hell-worthy?

REPLY: No; the appropriate consequence for the forbidden-fruit incident is mortality.
So when people pass away, that particular matter is settled once and for all.

When setting aside personal accountability is the goal, then gun is blamed, and not the shooter. No natural flesh and blood thinks for itself, nor does the body make the soul do anything.

What is also being dismissed here, is the judgement of God by our works in this life, after the grave.

The grave doesn't settle the accounting of man on earth. It only ends man's deeds on earth to account for in the resurrection of the dead.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

FAQ: Was Jesus implicated too? After all: it is very easy to show the first man was
among Jesus' paternal ancestors.

REPLY: Yes, had Jesus not been executed he would've eventually died of some
other cause.

Now we agree. At least in part. The body of Jesus made by the Spirit was the same natural flesh and one blood of all man and women on earth, beginning with Adam and Eve.

FAQ: How then can it be truthfully said he was a lamb without spot or blemish?

REPLY: Jesus committed no personal sins of his own to answer for. (John 8:29,
2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)
_

Exactly. Even as no babe in the womb has any deeds at all to answer for:

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
You're all over the map here. Just be rid of the false tradition of carnal minded Christians, that the death of the body is by sinning of the soul, and God can also put you wholly in the right mind of Christ by His written words.

 

[Ghada]

Original Sin - and the sin nature​

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

The originator of sin was Lucifer the first angel that sinned in heaven.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

The nature of sin is lust of the heart.

The enticing promise of that old serpent the devil, was for man to also become as gods, like Lucifer and the angels that sinned.

Man created in the image of God has power to become creators of our own lust to sin against God. We have our own power to change our image from that of God, to that of the devil.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.

The death to God by sinning, is the power of sons of God to become children of the devil instead.

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Lucifer was the first creator of lust in his own heart in heaven, and then enticed Adam to become the first creator of lust in his own heart on earth.

The same death to God by Lucifer was passed on to Adam by sinning against God as he did, and is still being passed on to men by sinning against God as he did.

God and His Christ is not the Creator of lust and sin.

God never lusted in His own heart to sin in heaven, and Jesus Christ never lusted in His own heart to sin on earth. Neither God nor Christ creates lust and sin in the hearts of angels nor men.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

Angels and men do our own creating of our own lust in our own hearts, against God and our own souls.

 

[Mr GLee]

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

The virgin birth was for a sign of the coming Christ of God, not for bypassing the seed and flesh of David, Abraham, Noah...

The virginity does not apply to the womb of Mary (dying mankind). It does apply to those who obey the first commandment to have no gods before our living God. No fornicating with other gods

The bride of Christ named by the Father, "Christian", the mother of us all.

As sons of God, we are not what we will be as the bride or church. All die having not receiving the new incorruptible bodies.

Paul as a surrogate mother held out (preached) the gospel in pains of birth or labor of love until the seed of Christ is formed in Timothy. The work of God.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

We look to the things not seen. things of God the eternal . . . . . not after the temporal seen the historical, they must be mixed. If we are to find the spiritual understanding of the parables.

 

[Ghada]

The virginity does not apply to the womb of Mary

Mary was a physical virgin.

The virgin birth was for a sign of the coming Christ of God, not for bypassing the seed and flesh of David, Abraham, Noah...

The bride of Christ named by the Father, "Christian", the mother of us all.

As sons of God, we are not what we will be as the bride or church. All die having not receiving the new incorruptible bodies.

Paul as a surrogate mother held out (preached) the gospel in pains of birth or labor of love until the seed of Christ is formed in Timothy. The work of God.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

We look to the things not seen. things of God the eternal . . . . . not after the temporal seen the historical, they must be mixed. If we are to find the spiritual understanding of the parables.

This is called deflection.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Jesus' physical body made by the Spirit from Mary's flesh, was with the seed of David, Abraham, Noah, Adam... The same natural seed and one blood of all men.

 

[Ghada]

It does apply to those who obey the first commandment to have no gods before our living God. No fornicating with other gods

You're not suggesting physical fornication has nothing to do with God's commandment, as though fornication has nothing to do with physical virginity?

You don't preach deeds of the body have nothing to do with spiritual cleanness?

 

[Josheb]

I don't know about others but, scripture works for me.