Mr GLee
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God is not a man .What are you going to move on to do?
Original Sin - and the sin nature
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When did I say “worship”?
Worship requires intent!
Scripture says it is sacred; holy; consecrated to God alone!
Thks
Mr GLee
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Does to venerating require intent?
Worship one, venerate. . . two of the same.
Six of one a half dozen of the other.
Idols are worshipped. Whether it's the sacred womb of Mary, or the sacred fire of Vesta or the sacred cow of India.
I do apreciate honest Catholics that don't make excuse for disobeying God. I just draw the line at idolzing any woman's womb.
That would also include whoremongerers.
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There is a lot of false teaching on this subject of Original sin. As scripture says, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1.
When I see false teaching I like to bring it up for discussion and expose it for the false teaching it is.
I have seen some people use Greek to try and prove their theory when they know none or very little Greek. I also have seen people try to twist and manipulate scripture to fit into their teachings. Yes, the enemy is very deceptive and has many tactics. It is very important to put on the armor of God. Ephesians 6:10-18.
Floating around the web presently is this false teaching, "The incarnation disproves Total Depravity and sin nature."
I won't mention the website, nor the person responsible for this false teaching.
Here is their argument using scripture.
There are many issues here .
First, this is from a person who has very little understanding of who Jesus is.
Their understanding of the Trinity is flawed.
Their understanding of the Hypostatic union is flawed.
Many, if not most times we see heresy coming from well-meaning people. Many are not out to teach false gospels but are trying to help a situation, here it's trying to keep Jesus from original sin.
The Roman Catholics do this by teaching Mary is the mother of God, then carry this too far. They claim she was born sinless, therefore Jesus escapes original sin. I'd say, wait a minute! Who is Jesus?
Let's look at a few verses,
Why they would emphasize flesh (sarx)? We know he came in the flesh. Do, I sense some sort of Gnostic teaching coming?
I believe the person who created this has no real understanding of the passage. I think they get lost with Jesus again.
Yes, he was like us in every way. Every way but one actually. Can you guess what that is?
There is no "if," he did come in the flesh.
Nope. Wrong. Oops.
This is the proof they do not know who Jesus is, and they do not have a good understanding of scripture. At least I hope that is what it is. Because there are false teachers out there that know exactly what they are doing.
Poor theology.
The breach of the covenant of works by Adam was imputed unto us. Adam wasn't placed in the COW he was created in the COW. This isn't merely because we are partakers of the same nature as Adam, but because we were created in the COW in Adam and have broken it in him. That's headship theology, which scripture teaches.
There are some who deny this, even many Arminians, and they claim Adam's sin only affected him.
However, scripture does teach the righteous imputation of the covenant breach to all men. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— Romans 5:12.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[b] leads to justification and life for all men.
So to deny such is to deny God's word itself.
As by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for the all have sinned.
We don't read that all men are sinful, but that all men have sinned.
Man is born dead. Man is born a sinner. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— Romans 5:12.
I don't know about others but, scripture works for me.
You got that right!
No, not like all men. Wrong! oops. Men are not born innocent, or does God's wrath burn toward the innocent? among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Eph 2:3.
Man, by nature is corrupt. Babies have a human nature, therefore, they are corrupt. Babies are born with the absence of God's image.
Considering all this. If all men were not guilty of Adams's breach of the covenant, if his sin wasn't imputed unto us, then each of us would enter the world as innocent and as perfect as Adam did.
Jesus did come in the flesh. Jesus was born sinless and holy. He was not born with original sin.
But how? Denying scripture does not help to prove anything. It's a bad practice.
The answer to why Adam's sin (original sin) was imputed unto all his posterity, but not unto Jesus is really quite simple. These false teachers miss it. Because they don't know him.
Excellent post, brother! This is why we need to do our own home work and research it for ourselves. A lesson I learned a long time ago. Even the Reformers when debating their protagonists in their day, shouted "Ad Fontes" (back to the source/Scripture Alone).
This also reminds me when Satan use Scripture against Christ. Which is a fools errands, and Christ reprimanded him for it. This is why we must read, learn and grow in the knowledge of the Lord so we are not deceived. Scripture reveal and speak of Christ and his works that he came to fulfill. All are under the curse of Law, and through the Law comes knowledge of sin and death through sin. Christ said there's none righteous not even one. Christ was telling the Jews this because they thoughts they came in through a different door. Like the Pharisees who look down on sinners and tax collectors, we are not like them, they say. But Christ slams the door on that notion.
This also reminds me when Satan use Scripture against Christ. Which is a fools errands, and Christ reprimanded him for it. This is why we must read, learn and grow in the knowledge of the Lord so we are not deceived. Scripture reveal and speak of Christ and his works that he came to fulfill. All are under the curse of Law, and through the Law comes knowledge of sin and death through sin. Christ said there's none righteous not even one. Christ was telling the Jews this because they thoughts they came in through a different door. Like the Pharisees who look down on sinners and tax collectors, we are not like them, they say. But Christ slams the door on that notion.
No it’s not you can give veneration for being faithful and virtuous such as Lk 1:45 but not worship
Mr GLee
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Same thing worship and venerate,
What our Holy Father the invisible head of the church calls two or more. Satan would make it all one in the same Like the idea of sin mortal and venial sin . Fake sin, Not original mortal.
Matthew 6:9 After "this manner" therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed(venerateable ) be thy name.
Not venerate the names of a legion of fathers called patron saints.
Scripture says blessed is the fruit f her womb!
Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
And holy!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
So her womb must be blessed and holy?
A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit!
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!
A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!
A Good tree cannot bear bad fruit!
A biblical principle approved by Jesus even though He knew it would be used to defend His sinless mother!
Cannot give enough glory to Mary!
Lk 2:32 a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Jesus is the fruit of Mary!
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, Mary is the mother of the light of the world and if the son receives glory Mary receives glory, if the sin is holy Mary is holy!
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit!
If Jesus is the fruit of Mary and the glory of Israel then so is Mary!
A good tree must bear good fruit!
Fruit is blessed and holy so must the tree be blessed and holy!
Sacred womb that bore Christ our salvation!
The ark of the covenant is a type of Mary!
Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
And cannot be used for any common purpose!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house of bread!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holy mother of God! Lk 1:43
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure, holy, and only used for the service of God!
See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!
Perpetual virgin!
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!
Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!
Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).
Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months so if holiness befits God’s house would not Mary be holy also? Just like the Ark and the Tabernacle she was set apart and consecrated to the Lord., the holy dwelling of God.
1 cor 3:17 …..for the temple of God is holy….. Mary is the temple, house, dwelling of God, God had need of Her to become man!
Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).
Thanks
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
And cannot be used for any common purpose!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house of bread!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holy mother of God! Lk 1:43
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure, holy, and only used for the service of God!
See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!
Perpetual virgin!
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!
Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!
Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).
Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months so if holiness befits God’s house would not Mary be holy also? Just like the Ark and the Tabernacle she was set apart and consecrated to the Lord., the holy dwelling of God.
1 cor 3:17 …..for the temple of God is holy….. Mary is the temple, house, dwelling of God, God had need of Her to become man!
Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).
Thanks
Mr GLee
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It would seem you are offering the wrong kind of virginity. Having to do with the procreation the dying flesh of mankind and not those who have no other gods before our one Faithful Holy Father the Creator .The kind of virtiny of the chaste virgin bride
2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Espoused of Paul a member of the mother of us all . . who suffered in pains of birth preaching the gospel in a living hope Christ would be formed in Timothy the chaste virgin giving him newborn gain life .
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Galatians 4: 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Jesus the Son of man said whosoever does the will of God our Holy Father are his brothers sister and mother. Are you our brother in the Lord?
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
The kind of family that calls no man on earth Holy Father.
Is that the only possible way to pray?
Lk 1:45
Mr GLee
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How does that confirm the chaste virgin bride the church using Timothy as a member of the mother of us all. Again, the virginly has nothing to do with the dying flesh of mankind as in procreation. But rather in keeping the first commandment to have no gods in the likeness of men called patron saints before our one Holy Father in heaven. Jesus said whosoever does the will of the father are his brothers' sisters and mother. Is Mary your sister in the Lord?
The idea of a queen of heaven (female deity) was passed down as a law of the fathers from the Pharisees with Sadducees to the copycats the Roman sect .
The faithless Old Testament Jewish women along with atheist men demanded his and her gods. like all the sounding pagan nations.
When challenged with sola scriptura .They denied the final authority of all things written in the law and prophesy and said rather we will do whatever comes from our own mouth and called that idea of dying mankind a Sacred Tradition . Simply changed the name of the Queen, to Mary our blessed sister in the Lord.
Jerimiah 44:15-19 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying, As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth,(if it feels good do it) to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way to salvation.
Apostles show the way to salvation not “scripture alone”!
Sacred womb! Scripture says: YES!
Lk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Lk 11:28 He replied, “Yes, but even more blessed are all who hear the Word of God and put it into practice.”
Fulfilled in Mary Lk 1:45
For Jesus is not opposing her view but adding to it.
Anything consecrated to God’s service must be immaculate pure and Holy and only for God’s service.
It's all about the Son, not the womb.
Seriously. The Baptist did not kick for joy, because the womb came into the room.
The sacred womb is a type of idolatry. It came from old Roman sacred fire of vesta.
2 Tim
{3:6} For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, {3:7} Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Silly wombs for silly women...
Much pagan stuff has creeped into Christian religion.
The whole created christ thing, is a Christian remake of the demigod Herakles, the favorite son of Zeus.
And saints venertion is old pagan hero worship stuff.
And don't get me started on relics idolatry.
Worship requires intent and consent and an offering
How does Peter’s (saint) shadow heal people?
Images
Gal 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
You also opposed to “call no man father”? Matt 23:9
No man other than the man Christ Jesus:
Isaiah
{9:6} For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
What Abraham Isaac and Jacob?
