Mystery of the most holy trinity!

[Runningman]

It is when you keep running away from 2 Timothy 4:18.

The first verse of this chapter clearly indicates Jesus isn’t God.

2 Tim 4
1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom:

 

[Fred]

Asking someone for something is not praying or just asking a human for something would be idolatry.

Post 36.

It would help me understand where you are coming from better if I knew more about your perspective.

Since the Bible teaches the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer demonstrates He is God.

 

[Fred]

The first verse of this chapter

Your way of dodging 2 Timothy 4:18.

Let me clue you in on something, it's still there.

 

[grace2]

You are the one who made the ludicrous comparison.

I don't compare anyone.

All I do is follow the context of Jesus' word.

You guys don't seem to have much respect for Jesus, who is the Teacher and center of our salvation.

 

[Fred]

All I do is follow the context of Jesus' word.

What a joke.

You guys don't seem to have much respect for Jesus, who is the Teacher and center of our salvation.

I love what Jesus said in John 14:14.
You should too.

 

[Runningman]

Since the Bible teaches the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer demonstrates He is God.

It would seem the Bible is not on your side on this point since asking for someone is not equal to praying. Jesus plainly told his disciples how to pray in Matt 6:9. Begin with calling on the Father.

No one in the Bible instructed others to pray to Jesus. All examples and instruction by everyone in the Bible tell them to pray to the Father.

Matt 6:6
Matt 6:9
and the rest of the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

Your way of dodging 2 Timothy 4:18.

Let me clue you in on something, it's still there.

John 17:3 is still there too.

 

[Fred]

It would seem the Bible is not on your side on this point since asking for someone is not equal to praying.

Get back to me when you actually have an argument I haven't already addressed.

I know you enjoy repeating it, but once it gets refuted there is no need for you to keep doing so.

 

[Fred]

John 17:3 is still there too.

2 Timothy 4:18 was mentioned first.

Keep hiding.



Jude 4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

The same Greek word for "only" (monos) in John 17:3 is used in Jude 4 in reference to Jesus being the "only Master" (despotēs) of every believer.

However, the same Greek word (despotēs) is used in reference to the Father in Acts 4:24.


Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

If you affirm the Father is, then that would contradict Jude 4.
If you affirm the Lord Jesus is, then that would contradict Acts 4:24.
If you affirm both the Father and the Lord Jesus are, then say goodbye to your denial of Jesus being God.

 

[Runningman]

Get back to me when you actually have an argument I haven't already addressed.

I know you enjoy repeating it, but once it gets refuted there is no need for you to keep doing so.

No examples in the Bible of praying to Jesus. Go ahead and look. You’ll find nothing saying he is prayed to. This is a good exercise for you to discover the truth since you aren’t hearing the messenger.

On the other hand, Jesus explicitly taught his disciples to pray to the Father. I believe that settles it. If you insist on praying to Jesus despite his clear words, you should ask yourself why you’re disobeying his teachings.

 

[Fred]

No examples in the Bible of praying to Jesus.

Acts 1:24-25
(24) And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
(25) to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”

When the appellation "Lord" appears without reading "Lord Jesus" in Acts 1:24 it is important to keep in mind that whenever the following keys words from this prayer are found elsewhere in Scripture in association with the "Lord" then the "Lord" always refers to the Lord Jesus.

The passages in boldface are from the same author (Luke).

1. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "show" (anadeiknymi) in Acts 1:24 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Luke 10:1).

2. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "chosen" (eklegomai) in Acts 1:24 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Acts 1:2; cf. v. 6; Luke 6:13; cf. vv. 5, 46; John 6:70; cf. v. 68 and John 13:18; cf. vv. 13-14).

3. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "ministry" (diakonia) in Acts 1:25 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Acts 1:17; cf. v. 21; 20:24; 1 Corinthians 12:5; Ephesians 4:12; cf. Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 4:17; 1 Timothy 1:12).

4. The "Lord" occurs along the same Greek word for "apostleship" (apostolē) in Acts 1:25 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Romans 1:5; cf. Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 9:2).


Let's see your evidence that this prayer was not to the Lord Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

2 Timothy 4:18 was mentioned first.

Keep hiding.



Jude 4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

The same Greek word for "only" (monos) in John 17:3 is used in Jude 4 in reference to Jesus being the "only Master" (despotēs) of every believer.

However, the same Greek word (despotēs) is used in reference to the Father in Acts 4:24.


Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

If you affirm the Father is, then that would contradict Jude 4.
If you affirm the Lord Jesus is, then that would contradict Acts 4:24.
If you affirm both the Father and the Lord Jesus are, then say goodbye to your denial of Jesus being God.

It’s a simple matter of basic English grammar. I will be happy to show you how the word only operates in English, especially in the context of John 17:1-3.


In John 17:1-3, Jesus is praying to God, whom he addresses as "Father." The key phrase regarding the nature of God is found in verse 3: "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

Grammatically, the phrase "You, the only true God" is structured to emphasize that the Father is identified as the only true God.

1. **Subject and Predicate:**
- Subject: "You" (referring to the Father)
- Predicate: "the only true God"

2. **Article "the":**
- The use of the definite article "the" before "only true God" specifies and emphasizes a particular entity. In this case, it singles out the Father as the only true God.

3. **Modifier "only true":**
- The modifiers "only" and "true" further emphasize the uniqueness and genuineness of God. It suggests exclusivity, indicating that there is no other God but the one being addressed as "Father."

4. **Word Order:**
- The word order in the phrase places emphasis on "You" as the subject and "the only true God" as the predicate. This syntactical structure reinforces the idea that the Father is the sole possessor of the divine quality of being the only true God.


Grammatically, John 17:1-3 highlights the Father as the exclusive and true God, and this emphasis is achieved through the use of specific language choices, including the definite article "the" and the modifiers "only" and "true."

 

[Fred]

It’s a simple matter of

...you dodging the question I asked near the end of post 69.

Try again.

 

[grace2]

What a joke.




I love what Jesus said in John 14:14.
You should too.

If you love Him, you will accept what He says about Himself and His Father.

 

[Fred]

If you love Him, you will accept what He says about Himself and His Father.

Why did you ignore John 14:14 when those are the words of Jesus?

 

[Runningman]

If you love Him, you will accept what He says about Himself and His Father.

Amen.

John 7
16“My teaching is not My own,” Jesus replied. “It comes from Him who sent Me.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

 

[Fred]

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

Post 73


See also the last sentence in post 71.

 

[grace2]

Why did you ignore John 14:14 when those are the words of Jesus?

Why do you ignore clear statements of Jesus?

 

[Runningman]

Post 73


See also the last sentence in post 71.

John 17:3 refers to the Father as the only true and exclusive God both Biblically and grammatically. There’s nothing you should be trying to rebuttal with. You don’t have an amen for it?

 

[Fred]

Why do you ignore clear statements of Jesus?

John 14:14 is still there.