Mystery of the most holy trinity!

[grace2]

Tradition isn't scripture.


Not according to scripture.


None of those verses say what you claim they do.


The "apostolic authority" idea you have is just your excuse to believe what the Bible doesn't say which is why you're appealing to tradition rather than Scripture at this point.


Please don't.

Even trins don't make this kind of apologetics.

It is way too juvenile.

 

[Runningman]

Even trins don't make this kind of apologetics.

It is way too juvenile.

At some point there must be an abandonment of sola scriptura by the trinitarian since the Bible isn't the best possible source for trinitarian theology. The best sources to find where they believe in a trinity are the creeds and writings of who they call the "early church fathers." Of course, the weakness of this is that they are referring to non-authoritative sources.

 

[grace2]

At some point there must be an abandonment of sola scriptura by the trinitarian since the Bible isn't the best possible source for trinitarian theology. The best sources to find where they believe in a trinity are the creeds and writings of who they call the "early church fathers." Of course, the weakness of this is that they are referring to non-authoritative sources.

Yes.

That's why they should not claim to be Christians. They are trinitarian.

 

[makesends]

No one cares about the what the "apostolic authority" is. The Bible says otherwise. Deal with it.

Who is "no one"? I care, and most Christians care. Apostolic authority was around during the NT church beginnings. But not what @donadams considers apostolic succession.

To say the Bible says otherwise, is self-contradictory. If nobody cares about apostolic authority, they don't care about plenary verbal inspiration.

 

[grace2]

Who is "no one"?

It was rhetorical.

You guys bring up the process of your man-made doctrines because you are trying to justify the unbiblical claims..

there is no need for that since the Bible is the source of Christianity.

only Trinitarians do it.

 

[makesends]

It was rhetorical.

You guys bring up the process of your man-made doctrines because you are trying to justify the unbiblical claims..

there is no need for that since the Bible is the source of Christianity.

only Trinitarians do it.

Well, of course it was rhetorical —so was my answer!

My point is that "apostolic authority" is of substance, and that @Runningman was blathering. He should at least have been more precise, and dealt with @donadams claims concerning "apostolic succession", if that was his objection.

 

[donadams]

N

You’re going to have to interact with the “Greek nonsense” the New Testament was translated from if you’re serious about studying it. Do you at least read a concordance like Strong’s sometimes?

Why was the word in the beginning an it that manifested a person according to 1 John 1:1-3?

Not saved by “faith alone”! Now we are adding Greek?

 

[donadams]

No one cares about the what the "apostolic authority" is. The Bible says otherwise. Deal with it.


So you believe whatever the councils said rather than what the Bible says? What does the Christian Bible not explain or describe what you refer to as the Trinity if it's a Christian doctrine?

Jesus does!

Apostolic church!
Sacred tradition (teaching)

The apostolic church was commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation Matt 28:19

Matt 16:18-19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 18:17-18 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Lk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:24 and apostolic Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Matt 18:18 eph 2:20

 

[Mr GLee]

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:24 and apostolic Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Matt 18:18 eph 2:20

Again the idea of apostolic authority of dying fathers comes from those who change the meaning of a sent one (apostle) as messenger that bring sola scriptura) How beautiful are their feet .

Like the Ass of Balaam the false apostle. The Ass whose in whose mouth Christ gave living word prophecy in order to rebuke the nonsense of infalible sinners. Abel the first listed martyr as a apostle sent by God . Cain who followed a law of dying mankind. The father of lies, a murdering from the beginning used Cain a false apostle to try and usurp the power of God.

 

[donadams]

Tradition isn't scripture.


Not according to scripture.


None of those verses say what you claim they do.


The "apostolic authority" idea you have is just your excuse to believe what the Bible doesn't say which is why you're appealing to tradition rather than Scripture at this point.


Please don't.

Scripture is tradition and comes from tradition inspired by the HS
2 thes 2:15 tradition both word of mouth (preaching) and epistle (scripture)

 

[donadams]

Who is "no one"? I care, and most Christians care. Apostolic authority was around during the NT church beginnings. But not what @donadams considers apostolic succession.

To say the Bible says otherwise, is self-contradictory. If nobody cares about apostolic authority, they don't care about plenary verbal inspiration.

Apostolic church!
Sacred tradition (teaching)

The apostolic church was commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation Matt 28:19

Matt 16:18-19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 18:17-18 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Lk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:24 and apostolic Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Matt 18:18 eph 2:20

 

[donadams]

The Bible is part of sacred tradition
It comes from sacred tradition
Only sacred tradition can declare what is and what is not scripture, and it’s proper authoritative meaning or interpretation

The apostolic authority existed n the church before the New Testament and wrote it by the spirit

Before the New Testament was written the apostolic church exercised authority and teaching

The apostolic church was commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation Matt 28:19

Yet you question Christ and his church and his revelation!

Jn 8:32 the truth (Jesus Christ) shall make you free

The opposite is also true you are enslaved in bondage by false doctrine!

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:24 and apostolic Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Matt 18:18 eph 2:20
Christ and the apostolic church have same teaching! Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 & 16:13 Matt 28:19

 

[donadams]

Yes.

That's why they should not claim to be Christians. They are trinitarian.

The divinity of Christ and the holy trinity are Christian doctrines so don’t call yourself a Christian!

All the great saints believed the divinity and trinity!

 

[donadams]

It was rhetorical.

You guys bring up the process of your man-made doctrines because you are trying to justify the unbiblical claims..

there is no need for that since the Bible is the source of Christianity.

only Trinitarians do it.

Heresy condemned by the apostolic authority!

Heterodoxy: error!

Monarchianism: The belief that God is one person.

One divine nature - one divine person

Modalism: The belief that the members of the Trinity are not three distinct persons but three different aspects of the same person. AKA Sabellianism

One divine person acting in three modes

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Orthodoxy: Truth!

Christian faith: Holy Trinity
Matt 3:16-17 Matt 17:5 Matt 28:19 col 1:26 1 Jn 5:7

One divine nature - Three divine persons

Three divine persons acting in union

Jesus Christ is the eternally begotten Son of God: Lk 1:35
The Holy One: acts 3:14

 

[donadams]

It was rhetorical.

You guys bring up the process of your man-made doctrines because you are trying to justify the unbiblical claims..

there is no need for that since the Bible is the source of Christianity.

only Trinitarians do it.

Where does the Bible say that the Bible is the source of the Christian religion?

Christ is the source! Jn 1:16:17

The apostles the means! Matt 28:19 acts 2:42

 

[donadams]

Well, of course it was rhetorical —so was my answer!

My point is that "apostolic authority" is of substance, and that @Runningman was blathering. He should at least have been more precise, and dealt with @donadams claims concerning "apostolic succession", if that was his objection.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Who are the eleven?

 

[donadams]

Again the idea of apostolic authority of dying fathers comes from those who change the meaning of a sent one (apostle) as messenger that bring sola scriptura) How beautiful are their feet .

Like the Ass of Balaam the false apostle. The Ass whose in whose mouth Christ gave living word prophecy in order to rebuke the nonsense of infalible sinners. Abel the first listed martyr as an apostle sent by God . Cain who followed a law of dying mankind. The father of lies, a murdering from the beginning used Cain a false apostle to try and usurp the power of God.

Acts 2:14 who are the eleven?

 

[donadams]

John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.”
John 8:42 “Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”
John 8:58 “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
John 10:38 “But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”
John 14:9 “Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?” 10 “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”

Jesus divine!

 

[grace2]

My point is that "apostolic authority" is of substance,

Christianity is all about what Jesus teaches. why do you need to go to "apostolic authority" which you guys made up?

Trins' principle is so chaotic, to say the least.

 

[makesends]

Apostolic church!
Sacred tradition (teaching)

The apostolic church was commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation Matt 28:19

Matt 16:18-19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 18:17-18 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Lk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:24 and apostolic Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Matt 18:18 eph 2:20

Being adamant doesn't mean that you are using Scripture right.