Monophysites?

[Mr GLee]

If you were created as a sinful being, then obviously it was in the creating that you were made a sinful being. But I think that is not correct.

It was in the creating another kind .... denying the Creator who subjected them to a law "thou shall not not: the letter of the law death

Lucifer rather than protecting glory of the Faithful Creator he usurped it as if he was the Creator.

they failed test of faith and the temporal spirit subject to the law returned to the Father of all Spirit life and the earthen bodies of death return to the field of clay or dust

Ecclesiastes 12:6-8King James Version Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Arial]

If you were created as a sinful being, then obviously it was in the creating that you were made a sinful being. But I think that is not correct.

Interesting, you believe in free will and no free will at the same time. You do not understand the doctrines of Reformed theology and yet you are basing your claims about my views as though you did. As though I understand them in the same way as your do. That is not the case.

I think that human beings consist of bodies, i.e., the flesh and blood as stated in Hebrews 2:14. To that, human beings have a spirit, or soul if you prefer that designation. In the case of Jesus, we know that physically He was born of the virgin Mary, from which he received His flesh and blood. The question then is, in becoming the human being that He was, where did His spirit or soul come from. Our spirits come directly from God (Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7). I believe that the spirit of Jesus was that one and the same Spirit that was the Word who in the beginning was God and was with God. That is, the pre-incarnate Spirit, called the Word, came to earth and took on the flesh and blood of the fetus in the impregnated Mary. It is in the flesh and blood that He took on that he was fully human and it was in the pre-incarnate Spirit, called the Word, that He was fully divine. That preincarnate Spirit, called the Word, did not simply disappear during the time that Jesus was alive here on earth. That Spirit always was, is and always will be. When Jesus, the man, the human being, on that cross, called out, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit" (Luke 23:44), it was that very same, pre-incarnate Spirit, the Word, that Jesus committed to the Father. And when Jesus was raised from the dead, His body was "repaired" and reunited with the Spirit, the Word.

That sounds like you are a binitarian not a trinitarian. Please clarify your position on that. Thanks.

It is just a speculation that the Spirit and the Word are one and the same, and nothing in Scripture that I can see, ever indicates that they are. It says the Son was incarnate, never the Spirit. It says the Son (Jesus) was the Word who took on flesh, not the Spirit. Jesus is divine because He is the Son, not because He is the Spirit. What you present, if I am understanding it correctly, is entirely a human construct.

Human nature and divine nature. Fully Human, fully divine. Therefore, Monophysites, if I understand correctly what it means, is simply wrong.

I agree. That belief says He only had a divine nature that took on human form, but not human nature. He was not really human iow.

 

[JIM]

Interesting, you believe in free will and no free will at the same time. You do not understand the doctrines of Reformed theology and yet you are basing your claims about my views as though you did. As though I understand them in the same way as your do. That is not the case.

I will just say I think I understand Reformed theology at least as some do who claim to hold to the doctrines of Reformed Theology. Of course I understand that not everyone who claims to hold to the doctrines of Reformed Theology all agree.

That sounds like you are a binitarian not a trinitarian. Please clarify your position on that. Thanks.

I am actually a trinitarian. I believe that I am a soul, a living being, as indicated by the Hebrew word "nephesh", meaning a breathing creature or soul. Blooded, breathing animals are souls [Hebrew - nephesh] (Gen 1: 24). I believe that I am a soul [Hebrew - nephesh] (Gen 2:7) and I have a body of flesh and have been given a spirit by God.

However, I believe that when used with reference to the human being, the words "soul" and "spirit" may be used interchangeably in both the OT and the NT; that is particularly true in the NT.

It is just a speculation that the Spirit and the Word are one and the same, and nothing in Scripture that I can see, ever indicates that they are. It says the Son was incarnate, never the Spirit. It says the Son (Jesus) was the Word who took on flesh, not the Spirit. Jesus is divine because He is the Son, not because He is the Spirit. What you present, if I am understanding it correctly, is entirely a human construct.

Okay, then what was the Word before "it" took on flesh. Jesus is simply the name given to the baby born of Mary; and the baby, the human son of Mary, did not exist before being born. He was not "the Son", before being born. He was the Word. (Parenthetically, Jesus often referred to Himself as the son of man.) Before Jesus was born, were there not three persons of the trinity? If so, there was the Father and the Holy Spirit. Who but the Word is the second person of the trinity? And if so, was the Word not Spirit, as God is stated to be?

What else could it possibly mean that the Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1) and the Word became flesh (John 1:14). Did the Word turn into flesh or did the Word take on the flesh of the human being as in Hebrews 2:14?

What or who do you think otherwise was the Christ, the Messiah, of God before being born a human being?

 

[Arial]

I am actually a trinitarian. I believe that I am a soul, a living being, as indicated by the Hebrew word "nephesh", meaning a breathing creature or soul. Blooded, breathing animals are souls [Hebrew - nephesh] (Gen 1: 24). I believe that I am a soul [Hebrew - nephesh] (Gen 2:7) and I have a body of flesh and have been given a spirit by God.

However, I believe that when used with reference to the human being, the words "soul" and "spirit" may be used interchangeably in both the OT and the NT; that is particularly true in the NT.

The Trinity refers to God. Father, Son. Holy Spirit.
Binnitarians believe the Father and Son are Deity, but that the Holy Spirit is of God but not the third person of God. Iow not personal. I don't how your reply about "you" pertains to that.

Okay, then what was the Word before "it" took on flesh.

The second person of the Trinity. Some say he was not known as the Son prior to incarnation, but the Word. I do not know how I think about that. In any case he is a person of the Trinity who came as the man, Jesus. The Word of John 1 and later 1 John, is a who, not an it. His work pre-incarnation can be seen in those passages that speak of Him at creation.

and the baby, the human son of Mary, did not exist before being born.

He did not exist AS the son of Mary. He came---as. That is how He came to us, but He always existed.

He was the Word. (Parenthetically, Jesus often referred to Himself as the son of man.)

Yes, because that is who he came to redeem as one of them, and it is also a direct reference identifying himself with the son of Man in Dan 7. By men and the word of God he is the Son of God. He is the Son of God, come into our history as the son of man.

Before Jesus was born, were there not three persons of the trinity?

Yes there were and are three persons of the Trinitiy. Jesus did not cease to be the second person of the Trinity in the incarnation.

If so, there was the Father and the Holy Spirit. Who but the Word is the second person of the trinity?

Right. But rather than, as some do, say Word is who He was, I am more inclined to see it as Word being used as to specific actions or activity of the Creator God. Scripture shows us that in 1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:15-17; John 1:3; Heb 1:2. It is why John begins with "In the beginning was the Word..." relating what he is saying straight back to Gen 1:1.

If so, there was the Father and the Holy Spirit. Who but the Word is the second person of the trinity? And if so, was the Word not Spirit, as God is stated to be?

God is spirit. The Holy Spirit is spirit. The Son (Word) is spirit. That refers to the type of being.The Spirit is a personal divine being; spirit is in this sense, the manner in which they exist; spirit as opposed to mortal flesh and blood.

What else could it possibly mean that the Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1) and the Word became flesh (John 1:14). Did the Word turn into flesh or did the Word take on the flesh of the human being as in Hebrews 2:14?

For one thing, John is using the word logos in direct relation to its use in the Greek culture and philosophy. This is not the place to go into that so briefly, logos was the thing the philosophers were attempting to discover.The ultimate, ultimate beginning or source of all else. And John writes what he does to say this is the beginning and the end and reason of all things. God. And he identifies the crucified Christ as that logos as being God and taking on flesh for the purpose of redemption. Sproul in particular has a good youtube video on this and I am sure others do as well. Probably a quick google of something such as "Why did John use logos in John 1" will pull up that information in more detail.

What or who do you think otherwise was the Christ, the Messiah, of God before being born a human being?

The same "person" he was before the incarnation.

 

[JIM]

As another one here says occasionally, thanks for your opinion.

 

[makesends]

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully

Excuse me?

 

[QVQ]

Romans 8:2-4King James Version2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I agree with this:
God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,

God and Jesus are One. (in nature)
Then Jesus is God in the Flesh
Not human in nature as Jesus could not sin. ("own Son in likeness of sinful flesh")
Human in flesh as Jesus could suffer the afflictions of flesh

But..the next few words "and for sin, condemned for sin in the flesh"

That would imply duel nature?

I would assume that the argument could be that Jesus could be tempted or that Jesus had a moment of doubt "Why hast Thou forsaken Me"
Jesus had to wrestle with the devil as a man. God does not.
Jesus was subject to all temptations the flesh is heir to meaning that Jesus did have two natures, human and divine.

Good verse @Mr GLee
Thanks for posting it.

 

[Tambora]

Okay, then what was the Word before "it" took on flesh. Jesus is simply the name given to the baby born of Mary; and the baby, the human son of Mary, did not exist before being born. He was not "the Son", before being born. He was the Word. (Parenthetically, Jesus often referred to Himself as the son of man.) Before Jesus was born, were there not three persons of the trinity? If so, there was the Father and the Holy Spirit. Who but the Word is the second person of the trinity? And if so, was the Word not Spirit, as God is stated to be?

What else could it possibly mean that the Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1) and the Word became flesh (John 1:14). Did the Word turn into flesh or did the Word take on the flesh of the human being as in Hebrews 2:14?

What or who do you think otherwise was the Christ, the Messiah, of God before being born a human being?

You ask some good questions for thought.

I am wondering if the birth of Jesus through the virgin can be considered the ONLY time in history that God was manifested as a "son of man" when remembering such a time that God manifested as a flesh man to Abraham and ate a meal with him, and also remembering that "son of man" was a title used of the second person of the trinity long before the birth through a virgin (Daniel 7:13).

 

[JIM]

The Trinity refers to God. Father, Son. Holy Spirit.
Binnitarians believe the Father and Son are Deity, but that the Holy Spirit is of God but not the third person of God. Iow not personal. I don't how your reply about "you" pertains to that.

The second person of the Trinity. Some say he was not known as the Son prior to incarnation, but the Word. I do not know how I think about that. In any case he is a person of the Trinity who came as the man, Jesus. The Word of John 1 and later 1 John, is a who, not an it. His work pre-incarnation can be seen in those passages that speak of Him at creation.

Was not God, the second person of the Trinity, Spirit, as was God, the Father, and God, the Holy Spirit? What happened to that Spirit when the second person of the Trinity became a human being when He was born of the Virgin, Mary?

 

[Mr GLee]

You ask some good questions for thought.

I am wondering if the birth of Jesus through the virgin can be considered the ONLY time in history that God was manifested as a "son of man" when remembering such a time that God manifested as a flesh man to Abraham and ate a meal with him, and also remembering that "son of man" was a title used of the second person of the trinity long before the birth through a virgin (Daniel 7:13).

I would offer phrase "son of man "used multiple times" like "daughters of man", speaks of non-converted mankind that must be born again of God, in Christ, the one spiritual seed .

All prophets are addressed a sons of men or daughters of men (flesh and blood)

Ezekiel 30:2 Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day!

Ezekiel 32:2 Son of man, take upa lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say unto him, Thou art like a young lion ofthe nations, and thou art as a whale in the seas: and thou camest forth with thy rivers, and troubledst the waters with thy feet, and fouledst their rivers.

Ezekiel 33:2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman

The proper use of the word "virgin" has caused much confusion??? Who is the biological father gives birth to flesh if not Joseph.

Below, Jesus the son of man the prophet did not say Joseph was not the biological father. The emphasize is not on his first fleshly birth dying flesh and blood .Flesh give birth to flesh

John 6:42-44 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Catholicism has turned the "virgin birth" and made it all about sex denying Joseph the biological father in order to crown the demon (spirit entity) they call Mary. Named after our born again sister in the lord

In that way taking the true meaning of virgin as to how it is used . . .away .

Timothy is considered a chaste virgin bride (one that has not fornificated with other gods. Violating the 1st commandment .

Like the legion of what a Catholics must call patron saints 3,520 and rising his and hers gods in the likeness of men

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Christian the bride of Christ our husband as the mother of us all..

Revelation 12King James Version12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

 

[Arial]

Was not God, the second person of the Trinity, Spirit, as was God, the Father, and God, the Holy Spirit? What happened to that Spirit when the second person of the Trinity became a human being when He was born of the Virgin, Mary?

I don't understand that first question.

According to Scripture as I understand it, the Holy Spirit indwelt the human Son, Jesus, just as He now does the believer, though without measure, as the man (100% human in nature and 100% divined in nature, the two natures never mixed) Jesus accomplished the necessary work of redemption. This does not mean that the Holy Spirit lost any of His attributes of omniscience, omnipotence, or omnipresence, anymore than that is so when He indwells each believer. The Holy Spirit always remains God. Nothing "happened" to Him when Jesus came to us as a man.

 

[Mr GLee]

I don't understand that first question.

According to Scripture as I understand it, the Holy Spirit indwelt the human Son, Jesus, just as He now does the believer, though without measure, as the man (100% human in nature and 100% divined in nature, the two natures never mixed) Jesus accomplished the necessary work of redemption. This does not mean that the Holy Spirit lost any of His attributes of omniscience, omnipotence, or omnipresence, anymore than that is so when He indwells each believer. The Holy Spirit always remains God. Nothing "happened" to Him when Jesus came to us as a man.

I would think Christ in us is a hope of his glory is "supernatural" without beginning. Eternal Spirit. The Father working in the Son of man ,Jesus.

Two the dynamic dual. Two is the one witness Christ the husband as God has spoken through his Son Jesus the apostle, Jesus sent with prophecy declaring the will of the father .

The the dying flesh of Jesus profits for nothing . . a spiritual unseen gift, spiritual words .

 

[Arial]

I would think Christ in us is a hope of his glory is "supernatural" without beginning. Eternal Spirit. The Father working in the Son of man ,Jesus.

Two the dynamic dual. Two is the one witness Christ the husband as God has spoken through his Son Jesus the apostle, Jesus sent with prophecy declaring the will of the father .

The the dying flesh of Jesus profits for nothing . . a spiritual unseen gift, spiritual words .

I do not see how that addresses the post it is responding to as in your view, Jesus is not God.

 

[JIM]

I don't understand that first question.

Before the incarnation, there was the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. I believe, as I think most Christians do, that those comprise the three divine Spirit beings that constitute the one true God. Hebrews tells us that in the carnation, Jesus partook, took on, the flesh and blood of the human being (2:14). Hebrews also says that Jesus had to be made likes us in every respect (2:17). We, in addition to having a body of flesh and blood, also have a spirit formed in us by God (Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7). I believe that the in addition to having a body of flesh and blood, the man Jesus also had a spirit. I believe that spirit was the preincarnate Spirit John called the Word. It is in the flesh and blood that Jesus was fully human and in the Spirit that He was fully divine.

Again, appealing to Hebrews, chapter 2, we read in verse 7 that God made Jesus a little lower than the angels. I am not absolutely certain what that really means, but I think that even though He was fully divine, it was only through the power of the Holy Spirit that He was able to perform signs, wonders and miracles.

According to Scripture as I understand it, the Holy Spirit indwelt the human Son, Jesus, just as He now does the believer, though without measure, as the man (100% human in nature and 100% divined in nature, the two natures never mixed) Jesus accomplished the necessary work of redemption. This does not mean that the Holy Spirit lost any of His attributes of omniscience, omnipotence, or omnipresence, anymore than that is so when He indwells each believer. The Holy Spirit always remains God. Nothing "happened" to Him when Jesus came to us as a man.

I do not believe that the Holy Spirit indwelt Jesus as He does we the believers, I believe that the Holy Spirit empowered Jesus as He did the apostles and prophets.

 

[Arial]

Before the incarnation, there was the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. I believe, as I think most Christians do, that those comprise the three divine Spirit beings that constitute the one true God

If the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity, then all three are not the third person of the Trinity. What Christianity teaches is that those three are spirit----that is, not material as we know material. They are invisible. It does not teach that all three are divine Spirit. What you present is a Trinity being described as a non- Trinity. The three persons are all equal in essence but are three distinct. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (The expression is never given as Father, Word and Holy Spirit.) "Word" is used in John 1 for a specific reason, which I gave in another post. I will do so again if you would like.

Hebrews tells us that in the carnation, Jesus partook, took on, the flesh and blood of the human being (2:14).

Yes,

Hebrews also says that Jesus had to be made likes us in every respect (2:17).

Yes.

We, in addition to having a body of flesh and blood, also have a spirit formed in us by God (Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7).

Yes, But our spirit is not an entity separate from the whole of us. Spirit (little "s") is used in Scripture as "life" and also in the same way as "heart" when it is denoting the usness of us.

I believe that the in addition to having a body of flesh and blood, the man Jesus also had a spirit. I believe that spirit was the preincarnate Spirit John called the Word. It is in the flesh and blood that Jesus was fully human and in the Spirit that He was fully divine.

Of course He did. If he didn't he would not be alive and he would not have feelings, desires, emotions, motion, speech, etc. But his human spirit was not divine or the two natures would have been mixed. And here you have made the Spirit incarnate, not the Son (Word if you prefer.) Jesus was fully human in the incarnation (flesh and blood) and as the eternal Son was fully divine.

Again, appealing to Hebrews, chapter 2, we read in verse 7 that God made Jesus a little lower than the angels. I am not absolutely certain what that really means, but I think that even though He was fully divine, it was only through the power of the Holy Spirit that He was able to perform signs, wonders and miracles.

Scripture also refers to mankind as being a little lower than the angels. That is what it means. He came down to our level. He was able to perform sings, wonders and miracles because even though He is fully human he is also fully God.

I do not believe that the Holy Spirit indwelt Jesus as He does we the believers, I believe that the Holy Spirit empowered Jesus as He did the apostles and prophets.

Could be. But the Holy Spirit indwelt the apostles---those he did not ever become their spirit and you say He did in Christ.

 

[JIM]

If the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity, then all three are not the third person of the Trinity. What Christianity teaches is that those three are spirit----that is, not material as we know material. They are invisible. It does not teach that all three are divine Spirit. What you present is a Trinity being described as a non- Trinity. The three persons are all equal in essence but are three distinct. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (The expression is never given as Father, Word and Holy Spirit.) "Word" is used in John 1 for a specific reason, which I gave in another post. I will do so again if you would like.

Yes,

Yes.

Yes, But our spirit is not an entity separate from the whole of us. Spirit (little "s") is used in Scripture as "life" and also in the same way as "heart" when it is denoting the usness of us.

Of course He did. If he didn't he would not be alive and he would not have feelings, desires, emotions, motion, speech, etc. But his human spirit was not divine or the two natures would have been mixed. And here you have made the Spirit incarnate, not the Son (Word if you prefer.) Jesus was fully human in the incarnation (flesh and blood) and as the eternal Son was fully divine.

Scripture also refers to mankind as being a little lower than the angels. That is what it means. He came down to our level. He was able to perform sings, wonders and miracles because even though He is fully human he is also fully God.

Could be. But the Holy Spirit indwelt the apostles---those he did not ever become their spirit and you say He did in Christ.

I believe you have made several errors there. But I haven't the time to address them right now. I will try to get back to it, perhaps tomorrow morning. Peace.

 

[Tambora]

I would offer phrase "son of man "used multiple times" like "daughters of man", speaks of non-converted mankind that must be born again of God, in Christ, the one spiritual seed .

No.
The Daniel 7:13 "son of man" is deity.

The proper use of the word "virgin" has caused much confusion???

No it hasn't.
Mary clearly asked how it could be since she had not known a man (Luke 1:34).
Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost BEFORE her and Joseph came together (Matthew 1:18).
Joseph knew her not until after she had Jesus (Matthew 1:25).

 

[Mr GLee]

No.
The Daniel 7:13 "son of man" is deity.




No it hasn't.
Mary clearly asked how it could be since she had not known a man (Luke 1:34).
Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost BEFORE her and Joseph came together (Matthew 1:18).
Joseph knew her not until after she had Jesus (Matthew 1:25).

Thanks for the reply

No commandments that says sex before marriage is explicitly sin. A warning not to have sex before with a person you would not marry. Be careful do not be unevenly yoked.

I would offer there is more than one use of the word virgin . Satan the 24/7 accuser of the brethren would make it all one in the same (literal sex) . All children of Christ his chaste virgin, unmarried bride were born again of the Spirit of Christ the seed of the husband .

Catholiscim needs to make flesh and blood Mary the sexless virgin Queen of heaven .Sort of the way the government seems to be headed today. Time to blow seventh Trump and make great great again . LOL

Celibacy a law of the fathers dying mankind is false doctrine which began with the Pharisees with Sadducees denouncing the loving commandment to be fruitful and multiply .

It seems the reason Jesus rebuked the Pharisees with Sadducees for wanting to stone the woman caught in adultery exposing thier own dark hearts that do the same kind of dark things (sin) Wrote down there names and the erased from the book of life. rewrote to indicate a person must be born again the elder to the lesser walked away faithless powerless .No faith as it is writen that could please God

Therefore making the loving commandment to call no man on earth Holy Father. . . A spiritual relationship.

Spirit gives birth to Spirit . Children are direct gift from God. . He breathes in his Holy Spirit life . Spirit gives birth to new born again spirits

Its not about no sex before marriage. Celibacy a Catholic thing a ma jigy another kind of doctrine . The virgin, bride as in no procreating with false gods, Popes, the first commandment.

The bride the whole church is the chaste virgin bride like that of Timothy espoused to Christ the husband .

Revelation speaks of the bride the church

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; (false gods) for they are virgins. These are they (male and female like the chaste virgin Timothy. . . which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Luke 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and blood as he does. .God is not a man as us and there is no Pope set between dying mankind seen and eternal God not seen as a infalible umpire (daysman)

I would offer Marvel not every man must be born agin to include the Son of man, jesus . He is nt ashamed to cal us brother nd siters as those who do the will of the fater ne big family

Luke 1:27 To a virgin (un married) espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's (un-married) name was Mary.

 

[Tambora]

No commandments that says sex before marriage is explicitly sin.

So???
Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived.
Jesus was not conceived by Joseph.

 

[Mr GLee]

So???
Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived.
Jesus was not conceived by Joseph.

Thanks not a salvation issue more of how is the word virgin used in a spiritual sense.

Satan would always make it one in the same both literal sex . The King of lust after the flesh of a women

Mary like the chaste virgin Timothy was a member of the chaste virgin bride the church .Joseph the biological father of the son of man dying mankind .

The miracle of rebirth is not reckoned from his first fleshly birth Jesus the Son of man . Jesus the Son of man is not ashamed to call Christians brothers sisters and mothers (the whole virgin bride)The preaching mother of us all . . sufferings as in birth born again pain until Christ Holy Spirt is formed in his chaste virgin bride.

God is not a man as us. Neither the Son of man. . dying mankind

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.