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Marian Dogmas

Yes. A father produces after its own kind and a woman gives birth to one after her own kind. Father---God. Mother----human Mary.
Much is explained when we consider after kind. It’s crucial to my understanding of the Gospel according to Alive.
:)
 
I think it can be said that His flesh was like any other in that it was subject to damage, pain and physical death as He was born through the womb, BUT He was without sin or otherwise blemished by the sin that came into the world.
He was a perfect sacrifice. God was real thorough in teaching us that through Moses.
I think there is also much to be seen in how Adam and Eve were created. Adam from dust, Eve from Adam. Adam the head in the order of creation. In addition to that. Both were created mortal---able to die, but not as would die. And they were created incorrupt, but corruptible.

Compare that to the new creation when Jesus returns. Immortal and imperishable. The deceiver is destroyed, sin is conquered, death is put to death.
 
I think there is also much to be seen in how Adam and Eve were created. Adam from dust, Eve from Adam. Adam the head in the order of creation. In addition to that. Both were created mortal---able to die, but not as would die. And they were created incorrupt, but corruptible.

Compare that to the new creation when Jesus returns. Immortal and imperishable. The deceiver is destroyed, sin is conquered, death is put to death.
“There are three things which are too wonderful for me, Four which I do not understand:
The way of the eagle in the sky, The way of a snake on a rock, The way of a ship in the middle of the sea, And the way of a man with a virgin.”

(Proverbs 30:18-19 NAS20)
 
Jesus Christ did not have sinful corrupted flesh. He did not inherit sin. He did not need to be saved from his sins.

Hi Thanks I did not say inherit sin.

A vision, dream or theophany could not do what flesh signified a sinful . . .did perform .Bring new eternal life

Romans 8:3 For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [subdued, overcame, deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice],So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
 
Amen. The Son of God cannot sin.
Thought comes, how God does things: They want to complain that we have to believe either this or that —that we are saved by predestination and not works, or that we keep ourselves saved by our works. They are half right. "We do so because it IS so."

Jesus proved who he was by not sinning. You say, "The Son of God cannot sin.", and you are right. But he could not because he WOULD not, DID not! Nothing 'automatic' about it, as they keep saying we believe. We persevere because God keeps us.
 
Thought comes, how God does things: They want to complain that we have to believe either this or that —that we are saved by predestination and not works, or that we keep ourselves saved by our works. They are half right. "We do so because it IS so."

Jesus proved who he was by not sinning. You say, "The Son of God cannot sin.", and you are right. But he could not because he WOULD not, DID not! Nothing 'automatic' about it, as they keep saying we believe. We persevere because God keeps us.
If he sinned it would go against his very character. So he could not.

It's like asking, why is stealing wrong? Because God is not a thief.
Why is murder wrong? Because God is not a murderer.

God cannot go against who He is. Therefore, He cannot sin.
 
To imagine God through the eyes of a sinner is futile or as the Preacher said, vanity.
 
If he sinned it would go against his very character. So he could not.

It's like asking, why is stealing wrong? Because God is not a thief.
Why is murder wrong? Because God is not a murderer.

God cannot go against who He is. Therefore, He cannot sin.
I guess my point is that he operates through earthy, usual, means. In this the power of God is seen, not with bright flashes of the supernatural imposing on the otherwise self-operated natural ways of the universe, but by the mundane, where normally entropy rules, he without fail maintains all fact as he had planned, even by means of entropy and the silly will of men.

But to your point, to say that he cannot sin, like the Bible says, in some versions, that he cannot lie, is to me a slight misrepresentation of the nature of God's being. It is not that he cannot sin, and cannot lie, as though to assert that it would otherwise be at least theoretically possible, but that it is logically self-contradictory to say that he lies or sins, according to the definition of God, or according to his very nature.

In Titus 1:2, by the way, where some versions say that he cannot lie, in some versions, the Greek word means, according to Strong's, "Not guilty of falsehood, truthful. Veracious". It does not say "he cannot lie"; the translation is a logical extraction, rather, and drawn on human reasoning. Not that you meant to imply it, but It is not a matter of him lacking the power or the ability to sin, but that the notion is self-contradictory.

Sin is rebellion against God. Christ was not in rebellion against God. God rebelling against God is self-contradictory.
 
Is it ok to say mother of Jesus?
Or
Mother of Christ?
 
There is zero chance looking at all of scripture that any born of Adam are in any way immaculate.
That notion is entirely contrived in order for the enemy to draw attention from Christ.
It cannot stand.
Lies never do.
Does God draw attention from Christ? Lk 1:49
For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

Does Mary ever draw attention from Christ? On the contrary!
Jn 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

And because of Her!

Jn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
 
RC authors admit that the Marion doctrines cannot be verified from the early church tradition of the Church in the writings of the Church fathers.

Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origin, Hilary of Poitiers, Marius Victorinus, Ambrosiaster, Basil the Great, and Chrysostom all stated that Mary was not sinless.

JUSTIN MARTYR​

“[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).

IRENAEUS​

“Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.’ Eve, however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey. Just as she, who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband—for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they first come to maturity before beginning to multiply—having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith” (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).
“The Lord then was manifestly coming to his own things, and was sustaining them by means of that creation that is supported by himself. He was making a recapitulation of that disobedience that had occurred in connection with a tree, through the obedience that was upon a tree [i.e., the cross]. Furthermore, the original deception was to be done away with—the deception by which that virgin Eve (who was already espoused to a man) was unhappily misled. That this was to be overturned was happily announced through means of the truth by the angel to the Virgin Mary (who was also [espoused] to a man). . . . So if Eve disobeyed God, yet Mary was persuaded to be obedient to God. In this way, the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so it is rescued by a virgin. Virginal disobedience has been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in the same way, the sin of the first created man received amendment by the correction of the First-Begotten” (ibid., 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

TERTULLIAN​

“And again, lest I depart from my argumentation on the name of Adam: Why is Christ called Adam by the apostle [Paul], if as man he was not of that earthly origin? But even reason defends this conclusion, that God recovered his image and likeness by a procedure similar to that in which he had been robbed of it by the devil. It was while Eve was still a virgin that the word of the devil crept in to erect an edifice of death. Likewise through a virgin the Word of God was introduced to set up a structure of life. Thus what had been laid waste in ruin by this sex was by the same sex reestablished in salvation. Eve had believed the serpent; Mary believed Gabriel. That which the one destroyed by believing, the other, by believing, set straight” (The Flesh of Christ 17:4 [A.D. 210].



EPHRAIM THE SYRIAN​

“You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]).

AMBROSE OF MILAN​

“Mary’s life should be for you a pictorial image of virginity. Her life is like a mirror reflecting the face of chastity and the form of virtue. Therein you may find a model for your own life . . . showing what to improve, what to imitate, what to hold fast to” (The Virgins 2:2:6 [A.D. 377]).
“The first thing which kindles ardor in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater [to teach by example] than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing of words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have goodwill towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue. When did she pain her parents even by a look? When did she disagree with her neighbors? When did she despise the lowly? When did she avoid the needy?” (ibid., 2:2:7).
“Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22–30 [A.D. 387]).

AUGUSTINE​

“Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in the defection of both” (Christian Combat 22:24 [A.D. 396]).
“That one woman is both mother and virgin, not in spirit only but even in body. In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Savior himself—of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom—but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head” (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]).

“Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins—for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?—so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?” (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).

TIMOTHY OF JERUSALEM​

“Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption” (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).
 

JOHN THE THEOLOGIAN​

“[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]).
“And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise” (ibid.).

GREGORY OF TOURS​

“The course of this life having been completed by blessed Mary, when now she would be called from the world, all the apostles came together from their various regions to her house. And when they had heard that she was about to be taken from the world, they kept watch together with her. And behold, the Lord Jesus came with his angels, and, taking her soul, he gave it over to the angel Michael and withdrew. At daybreak, however, the apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb, and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; the holy body having been received, he commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise, where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary’s body] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones and is in the enjoyment of the good of an eternity that will never end” (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 584]).
“But Mary, the glorious Mother of Christ, who is believed to be a virgin both before and after she bore him, has, as we said above, been translated into paradise, amid the singing of the angelic choirs, whither the Lord preceded her” (ibid., 1:8).
 
Matter of fact, the only grounds on which the RCC can attempt to legitimize its demand that the faithful believe in the immaculate conception of Mary is by claiming that it is a dogma formulated by an "infallible" pope.

The ultimate authority is not scripture or even tridition, but the Church and the pope.
Matt 16:18-19 bound on earth bound in heaven
 
Exactly…and all of this is a man made construct as equal to the principles behind Babylon.
Building of man.
Babylon is your reformation novelties from one true church 30,000 plus sects all the tradition of men having many errors but no authority!


one true church established and commanded by Christ to teach all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19
 
Exactly…and all of this is a man made construct as equal to the principles behind Babylon.
Building of man.
There is zero chance looking at all of scripture that any born of Adam are in any way immaculate.
That notion is entirely contrived in order for the enemy to draw attention from Christ.
It cannot stand.
Lies never do.
are sticking to this or are you going with the usual double standard of the Protestant rule?

Whats the Protestant rule you ask?

The reformer can get nothing wrong, the Catholic church can get nothing right!

Even if the opposite is true we will never admit it! AKA Protestant colored glasses!

“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” Zwingli





Now, consider that only the High Priest was allowed into the Holy of Holies to offer sacrifice to God for the sins of humanity. Would Mary not have to be so Holy and Perfect, to the point of being Second to God, as to conceive God Incarnate, the Messiah, and offer Him to God the Father as a sacrifice for the sins of humanity?

Peter says, “...like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written: “You shall be holy, for I am holy” (1 Pet. 1:15-16, cf. Lev. 19:2;20:7;20:26;21:8). Jesus, God Incarnate, was holy in all His behavior because He was without sin (1 Pet. 2:22), and thus He was completely Holy. If Mary was not without sin in all Her behavior, then She was not completely Holy and Perfect. Sin is disobedience, evil, and unholy (1 Jn. 3:4;8), and "no evil can dwell with God" (Ps. 5:4). Regarding Ps. 5:4 and Jn. 1:14, there's a difference between God Incarnate taking form inside a sinful human and living among sinful humans. Consider that Mary Magdalene, a sinful human, lived among God Incarnate, but she couldn't even touch Him after His resurrection yet because of her impurity from sins (Jn. 20:17). Therefore, how could God, the Most Holy and Perfect One, allegedly take form and dwell in a sinful (impure) body?


Do you believe or not believe that God, in advance, could have or could have not Thought of creating the soul that was to be the soul of the Mother of God Incarnate, and because He knew Her soul would've been subject to the law of the first parents, He preserved it from inheriting the stain of original sin, and thus it became an immaculate soul capable of possessing the fullness of His Grace, then He infused it into the embryo at the moment of Her conception? Do you believe or not believe that these factors, coupled with being conceived by and born of two Just human parents and having a natural good will, could have or could not have resulted in Mary being without sin, and thus a worthy dwelling place for God Incarnate, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Savior, the most Holy and Perfect One, to take form in and live a divinely Holy life with in Spirit and Body on earth and in Heaven?

Scripture
…..these the Fathers beheld in that ark of Noah, which was built by divine command and escaped entirely safe and sound from the common shipwreck of the whole world;[ Gn. 6:9] in the ladder which Jacob saw reaching from the earth to heaven, by whose rungs the angels of God ascended and descended, and on whose top the Lord himself leaned’[Gn 28:12] in that bush which Moses saw in the holy place burning on all sides, which was not consumed or injured in any way but grew green and blossomed beautifully;[ Ex 3:2] in that impregnable tower before the enemy, from which hung a thousand bucklers and all the armor of the strong;[ Sg 4:4 in that garden enclosed on all sides, which cannot be violated or corrupted by any deceitful plots;[ Sg 4:12] as in that resplendent city of God, which has its foundations on the holy mountains;[ Ps 87:1]
 
“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” Zwingli
Scripture illustrates for us over and over again that to esteem any human and elevate them above all others is simply 'idolatry'.
That place belongs to Christ and to Him alone.
 
honor thy father....
 
all generations will call her blessed
 
There is a difference between veneration of Mary and worship of Jesus. This was formalized in writing way back in 757 AD at the Seventh General Council:

Latria - adoration that is given to the Trinity alone; occurs 5 times in the Bible but always refers to God (Jn 16:2, Rm:9:4, 12:6, Heb 9:1,6)

Hyper-dulia - veneration to Mary (as the mother of God)

Dulia - honor paid to saints and angels; occurs 5 times in the Bible (Rm 8:15, 21; Gal 4:24, 5:1; Heb 2:15)

There are plenty of Old Testament references that distinguish veneration from worship. "Then Moses went out to meet his father in law, and he bowed down and kissed him." (Exo 18:7)...(also 1 Chron 29:20, 1 Sam 24:8)
 
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