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Justification by Faith Alone

Yes, we are declared "not guilty" (justified) by faith in Jesus' atonement (Ro 3:25).
Only in the conscience, God declared the elect Justified at the resurrection of Christ, because He put away their sins Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
The word Justification here is dikaiōsis :

  1. the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him
  2. [adjudging]1 to be righteous, justification

Thats what Christs Resurrection testified to. That God is declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to Him, adjudging them righeous.

Then later this declaration is made known to the elect when God the Spirit regenerates them and gives them Faith in His Blood which is what Justified them b4 God, declared at Christs resurrection.

Do you believe the Testimony of the resurrection that Christ blood Justified the elect b4 God ? Yes or No I do

Or do you believe the elect individual isnt Justified b4 God until he is given Faith to believe ?
 
Only in the conscience, God declared the elect Justified at the resurrection of Christ, because He put away their sins Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
The word Justification here is dikaiōsis :

  1. the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him
  2. [adjudging]1 to be righteous, justification
Thats what Christs Resurrection testified to. That God is declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to Him, adjudging them righeous.
Then later this declaration is made known to the elect when God the Spirit regenerates them and gives them Faith in His Blood which is what Justified them b4 God, declared at Christs resurrection.
Do you believe the Testimony of the resurrection that Christ blood Justified the elect b4 God ? Yes or No I do
Or do you believe the elect individual isnt Justified b4 God until he is given Faith to believe ?
I believe that what God has decreed in eternity past, which is everything, actually occurs at its decreed time, not before.

But because God has decreed it, it's a done deal.
 
I believe that what God has decreed in eternity past, which is everything, actually occurs at its decreed time, not before.

But because God has decreed it, it's a done deal.
Christ rose from the dead in time, and it declared the elect Justified. Do you believe they were Justified b4 God when Jesus rose from the dead ? Yes or no ?
 
Christ rose from the dead in time, and it declared the elect Justified. Do you believe they were Justified b4 God when Jesus rose from the dead ? Yes or no ?
Why do you insist that it happened because of time, and not because of event?

If it has ever been true that they were justified before God when Jesus rose from the dead, it has always been true —even from the foundation of the world.

So also, if it is true that a person's justification is by faith WHEN that person is given such faith, it has always been true —even from the foundation of the world—even from the day of Christ's resurrection— that a person's justification is by faith.

Would you say that the elect need not repent, since their sins were removed before they were even born? After all, that was done at the cross, too.
 
Faith& Justification


Justification as considered internally, at their effectual Vocation, when the Lord by the Preaching of the Gospel, doth powerfully persuade their hearts to believe in Christ; for the Elect themselves, before Faith, have no knowledge or comfort, either of God’s gracious volitions towards them, or of Christ’s undertakings and purchases in their behalf; in which respect, they are said to be without Christ, and without God in the world, Eph.2:12, Gal.4:1. They are compared to an heir under age,who differs nothing from a Servant, though he be the lord of all. By Faith we come to see that everlasting love, wherewith we were loved; and that plenteous Redemption which Christ hath wrought for us; for which cause, Faith is called the evidence of things not seen,Heb.11:1; and God is said thereby to reveal his Righteousness from Heaven to us, Rom.1:17; and to reveal his Son in us, Gal.1:16. Now in this sense men are said to be justified by the act of Faith, in regard Faith is the medium or Instrument, whereby the Sentence of Forgiveness is terminated in their Consciences; which is daily made more plain, and legible, by the operation of the Spirit, sealing, and witnessing unto them their peace and reconciliation with God. WilliamEyre {Justification without Conditions – 1654}​
 
@makesends

Would you say that the elect need not repent, since their sins were removed before they were even born? After all, that was done at the cross, too.

Yes they repent, they are given repentance, but not to be Justified b4 God. Repentance gives them that change of mind, wherein by nature the elect seek their justification b4 God by false religions and so forth, but God gives them repentance and Faith to the acknowledging of the Truth. So they can Glorify God on what Christ did for them.

Why are you being so resistant to the fact that the elect are Justified b4 God by Jesus Blood b4 they believe, b4 they are even born ? Thats all I am saying with scripture, and its like Im preaching heresy or something.
 
@makesends



Yes they repent, they are given repentance, but not to be Justified b4 God. Repentance gives them that change of mind, wherein by nature the elect seek their justification b4 God by false religions and so forth, but God gives them repentance and Faith to the acknowledging of the Truth. So they can Glorify God on what Christ did for them.

Why are you being so resistant to the fact that the elect are Justified b4 God by Jesus Blood b4 they believe, b4 they are even born ? Thats all I am saying with scripture, and its like Im preaching heresy or something.
I wasn't saying their repentance was related to their justification. I was only bringing it up because of the "time" question you seem to think important.

If we were, as you claim, justified "back then", you seem to think it "went into effect" before we had faith. "Why not, then, the same with repentance?"—is all I was saying. I could even ask—why not the same with regeneration? After all, it's a done deal from the beginning of the world. And why did Christ have to come, die and be resurrected— after all, it's a done deal, from the foundation of the world.
 
I wasn't saying their repentance was related to their justification. I was only bringing it up because of the "time" question you seem to think important.

If we were, as you claim, justified "back then", you seem to think it "went into effect" before we had faith. "Why not, then, the same with repentance?"—is all I was saying. I could even ask—why not the same with regeneration? After all, it's a done deal from the beginning of the world. And why did Christ have to come, die and be resurrected— after all, it's a done deal, from the foundation of the world.
Do you believe the elect are born condemned by God ?
 
Do you believe the elect are born condemned by God ?
Define your terms, explaining why you demand an answer from within time. "Decree", "predestination", "omnipotence", and several other related scriptural terms answer. Why don't you use that? I don't know how to answer your leading questions.

If the elect do not, sooner or later, believe, they are not elect. Will the elect believe? Most certainly. Do they believe yet? No. They are condemned if they do not believe. "UNTIL" is a bogus question. If you wish to apply your math to John 3:18, as though it is referring to the elect, be my guest. I won't go there with you.

Come to think of it, you probably would have done better to ask, "Are they 'under condemnation' until they believe?"

But this is a deviation from the argument. A person is no more, and no less, under condemnation before or after the cross, but BECAUSE OF the cross, and BECAUSE OF God's decree.
 
Yes it is scripture. How were they Justified by this scripture ? Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
I’ve heard this speech a few times. Your faith in God justifies you to Christ. Now that was true during his lifetime and after the assertion it remains true, with the further feature that besides being a gospel biographer, John also recorded a vision of Christ ascended to heaven in the book of revelation, written in Crete, as Paul called Patmos, which means that he was near the Parthenon. I know you all y’all just love to speak Greek. Alright, if you believe in god, meaning that you believe rationally in the basis of the entire Bible, meaning that you understand both God type worship and Baal worship, then you know for certain that the historical Jesus of Nazareth, who lived 2000 years ago and who your religion tells you is still metaphysically alive (but not on earth), is in your side in a future heavenly court case at an unknown time into which you are not to search. Cool. You know what, I’ve always admired the four column linear proof myself, and someday when I retire I’m going to draft a manuscript of it at least, if not bind a publishers typesetting of it. It can do absolutely no harm, as the proof is said to consist of a side by side illustration of the fact that in the four separate gospel books, although not all of Christs sayings are recorded identically by the four different people, at no time does his rhetoric contradict itself in the four accounts columns. It will make an excellent portfolio piece, any printer will know enough to appreciate its value, and Baal won’t know the difference at all, since Baal is only an idol golden cow.
 
That sounds fine. I would add the need to be found righteous to the definition.
I agree that the other definitions added "fluff" (commentary).
Interesting, I don’t agree with the original post you commented on. Jesus Christ is the basis of your justification, but he wasn’t able to plead his own case before Pilate, not because of mental instability but because the court of Pilate convened at night, had used a spy in Jesus cadre, had misappropriated temple taxes, and committed several other offenses that you’ve never seen firsthand, Bible reader or no Bible reader (you aren’t from Afghanistan or even the French Rivera). Justification in religion only means that you and Jesus are parallel in character, and in the local church context, unfortunately that only counts in heaven. I get it, you’re a revelation chartist, but the ability to defend yourself in court doesn’t apply to the life of Christ. The court convened at night by Pilate wasn’t a court of law, read that again. Jesus was simply dragged out of his house and night and murdered, by people who knew who he was and that he was famous, causing them to make comments on the way which were overheard by the disciples. Pilates court failed to record its deeds, that’s often missed, but ultimately who wrote down the life of Christ? The court, or the disciples? Justification is no more than your religious assurance for the next world. It’s irrelevant to a civil court, I hate to point out the state, but be reasonable about the scriptures. Was Christs justification by faith on earth anything whatsoever to do with his hearing in the garden of Gesemine? The answer is “no”. Paul, a contemporary of Christ but not one of the twelve, was an educated Jew who is known from other sources to have also been a member of the Sanhedrin with Nicodemus. The democratically elected Sanhedrin, which was a parliamentary or congressional body in Israel (it still exists, it’s the legislature), was larger than a single judge court and larger than the membership of the patriarchs, which are an aristocratic hereditary institution composed of “lords”, basically, as in London. Again, justification is simply getting a judge to find you innocent in your own view here, and rationality or sobriety have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it. Criminals commit crimes for perfectly logical reasons all the time, there are need based thefts and revenge based murders. Your mindset and your reasoning ability are irrelevant, only the letter of the law and the veracity of your testimony count in a real court. Paul could testify, he was thoroughly rational. In his capacity as an Israelite representative, he presented his case with perfect clarity to Felix, a magistrate from neighboring Rome, who found his judicial case innocent, although he is better remembered for not having personally believed the metaphysical basis of its importance as described by Paul. Felix judged Paul as innocent on the basis of Paul’s testimony under oath, but Paul was also still crucified. Not by y to e order of Felix, but still murderered during the Persian War, as was Felix.
 
Interesting, I don’t agree with the original post you commented on. Jesus Christ is the basis of your justification, but he wasn’t able to plead his own case before Pilate, not because of mental instability but because the court of Pilate convened at night, had used a spy in Jesus cadre, had misappropriated temple taxes, and committed several other offenses that you’ve never seen firsthand, Bible reader or no Bible reader (you aren’t from Afghanistan or even the French Rivera). Justification in religion only means that you and Jesus are parallel in character, and in the local church context, unfortunately that only counts in heaven. I get it, you’re a revelation chartist, but the ability to defend yourself in court doesn’t apply to the life of Christ. The court convened at night by Pilate wasn’t a court of law, read that again. Jesus was simply dragged out of his house and night and murdered, by people who knew who he was and that he was famous, causing them to make comments on the way which were overheard by the disciples. Pilates court failed to record its deeds, that’s often missed, but ultimately who wrote down the life of Christ? The court, or the disciples? Justification is no more than your religious assurance for the next world. It’s irrelevant to a civil court, I hate to point out the state, but be reasonable about the scriptures. Was Christs justification by faith on earth anything whatsoever to do with his hearing in the garden of Gesemine? The answer is “no”. Paul, a contemporary of Christ but not one of the twelve, was an educated Jew who is known from other sources to have also been a member of the Sanhedrin with Nicodemus. The democratically elected Sanhedrin, which was a parliamentary or congressional body in Israel (it still exists, it’s the legislature), was larger than a single judge court and larger than the membership of the patriarchs, which are an aristocratic hereditary institution composed of “lords”, basically, as in London. Again, justification is simply getting a judge to find you innocent in your own view here, and rationality or sobriety have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it. Criminals commit crimes for perfectly logical reasons all the time, there are need based thefts and revenge based murders. Your mindset and your reasoning ability are irrelevant, only the letter of the law and the veracity of your testimony count in a real court. Paul could testify, he was thoroughly rational. In his capacity as an Israelite representative, he presented his case with perfect clarity to Felix, a magistrate from neighboring Rome, who found his judicial case innocent, although he is better remembered for not having personally believed the metaphysical basis of its importance as described by Paul. Felix judged Paul as innocent on the basis of Paul’s testimony under oath, but Paul was also still crucified. Not by y to e order of Felix, but still murderered during the Persian War, as was Felix.
Interesting. I suppose your have a point that Jesus was not found to justified by men. I'm sure Christ went to the supreme court so to speak and God found him righteous and thus justified.
Was Christs justification by faith on earth
Christ was not justified by faith. He was justified by perfect obedience to God's law/directions.
 
Interesting. I suppose your have a point that Jesus was not found to justified by men. I'm sure Christ went to the supreme court so to speak and God found him righteous and thus justified.

Christ was not justified by faith. He was justified by perfect obedience to God's law/directions.
Just to be clear----and correct me if I am mistaken -----Jesus did not need to be justified before God in the same way justification is applied to believers in him. His status as having been always righteous was verified by the resurrection.
 
Just to be clear----and correct me if I am mistaken -----Jesus did not need to be justified before God
:unsure:... well, Christ has two natures .... :unsure: ... his human nature needed to be righteous. He needed to be righteous so our sins come be imputed to him and his righteousness imputed to us ... not sure the human nature needed to do so to be justified. Of course, God knowing all things, knew the outcome so not like God needed proof for a verdict. :unsure: .... I'm going to get 'told off' like Job ...His ways are not our ways.
 
:unsure:... well, Christ has two natures .... :unsure: ... his human nature needed to be righteous. He needed to be righteous so our sins come be imputed to him and his righteousness imputed to us ... not sure the human nature needed to do so to be justified. Of course, God knowing all things, knew the outcome so not like God needed proof for a verdict. :unsure: .... I'm going to get 'told off' like Job ...His ways are not our ways.
I agree with that. What I am saying is that Jesus as one of us was righteous. He did not need to be justified. He did not become a sinner on the cross. He substituted himself in our place to take the penalty we deserve so that we can be justified before God. The resurrection verified his righteousness and God's acceptance of the payment. Not to God. To us. It is the witness to us.
 
The object should be the perfect righteousness of Christ for our sins.
amen and amen..

But even after then, it should still be in God. for everything,

every time we take a step of faith. God proves his trustworthiness.

Abraham got to the amount of faith he offered his son, KNOWING God would raise him from the dead (he trusted Gods promise)

I am not sure he would have done that in Gen 17 or as a new believer..

we have to grow. God proved himself to Abraham, because Abraham took steps of =faith
 
Define your terms, explaining why you demand an answer from within time. "Decree", "predestination", "omnipotence", and several other related scriptural terms answer. Why don't you use that? I don't know how to answer your leading questions.

If the elect do not, sooner or later, believe, they are not elect. Will the elect believe? Most certainly. Do they believe yet? No. They are condemned if they do not believe. "UNTIL" is a bogus question. If you wish to apply your math to John 3:18, as though it is referring to the elect, be my guest. I won't go there with you.

Come to think of it, you probably would have done better to ask, "Are they 'under condemnation' until they believe?"

But this is a deviation from the argument. A person is no more, and no less, under condemnation before or after the cross, but BECAUSE OF the cross, and BECAUSE OF God's decree.
Please answer or not. Are the elect in your view born condemned by God, even while unconverted and dead in sin ?
 
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