Justification by Faith Alone

[brightfame52]

I’ve heard this speech a few times. Your faith in God justifies you to Christ. Now that was true during his lifetime and after the assertion it remains true, with the further feature that besides being a gospel biographer, John also recorded a vision of Christ ascended to heaven in the book of revelation, written in Crete, as Paul called Patmos, which means that he was near the Parthenon. I know you all y’all just love to speak Greek. Alright, if you believe in god, meaning that you believe rationally in the basis of the entire Bible, meaning that you understand both God type worship and Baal worship, then you know for certain that the historical Jesus of Nazareth, who lived 2000 years ago and who your religion tells you is still metaphysically alive (but not on earth), is in your side in a future heavenly court case at an unknown time into which you are not to search. Cool. You know what, I’ve always admired the four column linear proof myself, and someday when I retire I’m going to draft a manuscript of it at least, if not bind a publishers typesetting of it. It can do absolutely no harm, as the proof is said to consist of a side by side illustration of the fact that in the four separate gospel books, although not all of Christs sayings are recorded identically by the four different people, at no time does his rhetoric contradict itself in the four accounts columns. It will make an excellent portfolio piece, any printer will know enough to appreciate its value, and Baal won’t know the difference at all, since Baal is only an idol golden cow.

How were they Justified by this scripture ? Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[brightfame52]

Applied when they believe in time.

Until it is applied, they are no different than unregenerate mankind.

Okay, so to be clear, the elect by nature, even though Christ died for them in the past, when they are born, they are condemned like others who Christ didn't die for, the non elect, correct ? Yes or no, and we will call it a wrap

 

[Homework]

How were they Justified by this scripture ? Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

That’s a great literary question, but it opens up timeline questions and resides problems in spacetime relativity. Paul wrote to the church in Rome that their faith in the messiah was justified by his blood, meaning both the incarnation as a man of flesh and bone and the crucifixion during which he bled to death. It’s not for the location (space) of Rome alone, but what do you have to say about the time line? Before the life of Christ, what justified the faith of others who had come before? Was Noah’s faith justified by the flood? Was the faith of Moses and Aaron justified by the Exodus and the parting of the Red Sea? As for the faith of Caleb and Joshua, what justified that? The military win at Jericho? And how did the army’s loss at Ai affect that? As to your own faith, it’s predicated on literature. You’ve defined the Bible as inspired by God, but you could have accorded that homie to another great book, such as Aristotles Ethics, or Plato’s Republic. It was only your choice, the evidence you have relies exclusively on abstract reasoning, and no one else can see your own revelation, the spark of prayer you swear by in testimony that the Bible itself is true.

 

[Homework]

Interesting. I suppose your have a point that Jesus was not found to justified by men. I'm sure Christ went to the supreme court so to speak and God found him righteous and thus justified.

Christ was not justified by faith. He was justified by perfect obedience to God's law/directions.

What I said was that Paul had conducted diplomacy with Titus. Paul was a member of the Sanhedrin and Titus was a member of the SPQR. Both held elected positions in their nations. Paul’s case in diplomacy with Titus wasn’t about the nature of Christ, it was nothing to do with Jesus’ case in terms of material evidence. It was a due process report on illegal proceedings, and accused Pilate of treason. There are two tiers in the two cases. You need to bear in mind that defendants do not bring cases into even justly constituted courts. Jesus was the defendant at his trial, that means that he did not bring the case. So, to be exactly clear, Jesus Christ has no case against anyone and brings absolutely no case into a civil court. Why would a god bring a case to a human judge anyway? Someone else brought the case against Christ, and your gospels report that it was Judas, whose legal grievance has not been recorded in the gospel manuscripts.

Try to remember that Judas’ case in Pilates court against Jesus and Paul’s case in Titus court against Herod are entirely separate cause numbers in separate court houses on different dockets.

 

[brightfame52]

That’s a great literary question, but it opens up timeline questions and resides problems in spacetime relativity. Paul wrote to the church in Rome that their faith in the messiah was justified by his blood, meaning both the incarnation as a man of flesh and bone and the crucifixion during which he bled to death. It’s not for the location (space) of Rome alone, but what do you have to say about the time line? Before the life of Christ, what justified the faith of others who had come before? Was Noah’s faith justified by the flood? Was the faith of Moses and Aaron justified by the Exodus and the parting of the Red Sea? As for the faith of Caleb and Joshua, what justified that? The military win at Jericho? And how did the army’s loss at Ai affect that? As to your own faith, it’s predicated on literature. You’ve defined the Bible as inspired by God, but you could have accorded that homie to another great book, such as Aristotles Ethics, or Plato’s Republic. It was only your choice, the evidence you have relies exclusively on abstract reasoning, and no one else can see your own revelation, the spark of prayer you swear by in testimony that the Bible itself is true.

How were they Justified according Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[Eleanor]

... well, Christ has two natures .... ... his human nature needed to be righteous. He needed to be righteous so our sins come be imputed to him and his righteousness imputed to us ... not sure the human nature needed to do so to be justified. Of course, God knowing all things, knew the outcome so not like God needed proof for a verdict. .... I'm going to get 'told off' like Job ...His ways are not our ways.

Justification is a declaration of not guilty, a sentence of acquittal, a pronouncement of righteousness.

Jesus was never unrighteous and needed no acquittal nor declaration of not guilty.

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

... well, Christ has two natures .... ... his human nature needed to be righteous. He needed to be righteous so our sins come be imputed to him and his righteousness imputed to us ... not sure the human nature needed to do so to be justified. Of course, God knowing all things, knew the outcome so not like God needed proof for a verdict. .... I'm going to get 'told off' like Job ...His ways are not our ways.

Post #120, last post on page 6.

 

[Eleanor]

Okay, so to be clear, the elect by nature, even though Christ died for them in the past, when they are born, they are condemned like others who Christ didn't die for, the non elect, correct ? Yes or no, and we will call it a wrap

Yes, they are born in sin and condemned by nature (Eph 2:3) until they savingly believe.

Jesus is the only one who was exempt.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification depends not upon our apprehending it, not in our receiving it, but upon what the Lord Jesus hath done for us. Justification is effected by Christ, and it’s apprehended by faith. {Heb.11:1} The Spirit and faith doth evidence to us our Justification; all that believe are Justified.{Acts 13:39} http://www.sovereignredeemerbooks.com/assets/pdf/samuel-richardson/divine-consolations.pdf

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, they are born in sin and condemned by nature (Eph 2:3) until they savingly believe.

Jesus is the only one who was exempt.

Okay, I disagree, Jesus had already taken their condemnation upon himself as their Surety. It appears you make ones saving faith/believing that which caused God to remove their condemnation. We will leave it at that, for now

 

[brightfame52]

Justification is a declaration of not guilty, a sentence of acquittal, a pronouncement of righteousness.

Jesus was never unrighteous and needed no acquittal nor declaration of not guilty.

Was Jesus guilty by imputation with the sins of Gods elect charged to Him ? If not why did He need die for them ? Isa 53:

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

 

[Homework]

Interesting. I suppose your have a point that Jesus was not found to justified by men. I'm sure Christ went to the supreme court so to speak and God found him righteous and thus justified.

Christ was not justified by faith. He was justified by perfect obedience to God's law/directions.

How were they Justified according Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

And you’re justified in which sense? First of all, you can be justified at having believed in prophecies of a human condensation (the incarnation, advent, virgin birth), as a literary scholar simply on the basis of having read the Bible, and being able to write a book report. You’ll pass the English class that way fir your undergraduate degree, all you have to do is write a time-linear essay on the storybook and point out that within its binding, a series of battles and competing predictions occur about a certain person being born and say, see, I read to the end, the certain person was born. Now under that circumstance, you’d be an English major who could puck out the names of people claiming to be prophets, some of whom said one thing and others another. You’d argue on the basis of Isaiah specifically that a prophecy from a few centuries before the birth came true and was reported on by four people in the man’s life. I just happen to know that because I’ve seen bar and bat mitzvah before. Now you’re saying here that you believe in his blood, that has two meanings. One, that his blood physically existed in the solid world, and two, that he bled to death at the crucifixion. So, you claim to be really in this literary narrative, you think it coincides with real astronomical time, on the solid surface of the earths globe, and within the pages context, you’re right and the court of Herod is wrong. Cool. But that’s only literary logic. If you take the Bible literally, Jesus was a person who lived 2000 years ago, now what are you saying besides that? You think Jesus was a profit, now prophecy is transfinite, that means that it in and of itself is not a solid artifact, prophets may exist, and people who exist may claim to be prophets but be lying. In the Bible itself, some people are prophets and some claim to be prophets but are lying. That’s just part of the plot. Your problem is that Jesus isn’t here now. You’re a believer, and you can also call on the plot device of the Holy Spirit, but by a close reading the spirit is invisible, unless white doves follow you around a lot in the heart and now. And even if they do, what does that prove? When a white feathered avian flies into your church meeting hall, how do you explain to people that it’s a solid angel or Joseph Campbell type mask of god, or a solid angel who has shifted shape into a white crow sized bird, rather than the dove simply have been out for a stroll on the sabbath day?

 

[brightfame52]

@Homework

And you’re justified in which sense?

What do you think being Justified by His Blood means ? So according to Rom 5:9 how were they Justified ?

 

[Eleanor]

Okay, I disagree, Jesus had already taken their condemnation upon himself as their Surety. It appears you make ones saving faith/believing that which caused God to remove their condemnation. We will leave it at that, for now

Jesus' atoning work is applied to them through faith, and is not applied to them until they come to faith.

 

[Homework]

@Homework


What do you think being Justified by His Blood means ? So according to Rom 5:9 how were they Justified ?

There’s more than one meaning of justify, you can the same word more than one way. In publishing, you justify your margins. Try it in Microsoft Word, I’m sure you do this every day. Right or left justification of the text aligns one or the other edge of your columns of type so that a straight line can be drawn down the page along the edges of the printing, which is parallel to the edges of the paper. A fully justified margin has straight lines on both vertical edges, so that the typeface and the page are parallel to each other, forming a rational proportion between the edges of the paper, which are parallel to each other, and the edges of the typesetting, which are parallel to each other as well as to the edges of the paper. How is your life parallel tp
The life of Christ, and compared to what? Remember that justifying is a four line set of vertical parallels. It’s resembling the four column proof that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John’s individual reports on the sayings of Jesus do not contradict each other.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus' atoning work is applied to them through faith, and is not applied to them until they come to faith.

I know where you stand, the elect are condemned by God even though Christ has died for them and put away their sins and condemnation, and its not applied to their account until they believe.

 

[brightfame52]

There’s more than one meaning of justify, you can the same word more than one way. In publishing, you justify your margins. Try it in Microsoft Word, I’m sure you do this every day. Right or left justification of the text aligns one or the other edge of your columns of type so that a straight line can be drawn down the page along the edges of the printing, which is parallel to the edges of the paper. A fully justified margin has straight lines on both vertical edges, so that the typeface and the page are parallel to each other, forming a rational proportion between the edges of the paper, which are parallel to each other, and the edges of the typesetting, which are parallel to each other as well as to the edges of the paper. How is your life parallel tp
The life of Christ, and compared to what? Remember that justifying is a four line set of vertical parallels. It’s resembling the four column proof that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John’s individual reports on the sayings of Jesus do not contradict each other.

What does Justified by His Blood mean ? How were they Justified according to Rom 5:9

 

[Homework]

What does Justified by His Blood mean ? How were they Justified according to Rom 5:9

There’s a difference between physics and metaphysics. Justification is an abstract principle in geometry. Remember Euclid? The plane is an idea, but sheets of paper are made out of wood pulp. A plane can be regularly divided and filled with shapes, lines, letters, and so on. Real world justification is an application of abstract geometry to real world printers labor, your margins are justified both horizontally and vertically so that the sizes of the page, the typeface, and the blank margins on the top and bottom of the paper are proportional. Justified by the blood? Compare yourself to Christ in both lifetime and character. Think of character as vertical margin, determining whether you’ll go up or down after the resurrection. Think of your lifetime as the horizontal margin, seeing how your dates of birth and death compare to the dates of Jesus’ birth and death, including differences between your contemporaries and his. Justification is not automatic, you just think it is because you type everything in Microsoft Word. I use a foundry solid lead movable type press and real wood pulp sheets of paper as well as a drafters kit for my own publishers proofs, rather than relying on the AUTOcad snap feature. But that’s weekday and secular. For your churching purposes, compare yourself as a justified person in the present day to a pre advent Jew who had to be justified by sacrificing a head of livestock from your farm. You might have had to contribute a lamb, a bull, or a goat to a ceremony officiated by a Levite. You spent money on your farm stock, and because of your sin needed to pay temple tax AND give up some of your productive assets. The blood of the bull or lamb in conjunction with your monetary offering justified you. You were then forgiven.

 

[brightfame52]

There’s a difference between physics and metaphysics. Justification is an abstract principle in geometry. Remember Euclid? The plane is an idea, but sheets of paper are made out of wood pulp. A plane can be regularly divided and filled with shapes, lines, letters, and so on. Real world justification is an application of abstract geometry to real world printers labor, your margins are justified both horizontally and vertically so that the sizes of the page, the typeface, and the blank margins on the top and bottom of the paper are proportional. Justified by the blood? Compare yourself to Christ in both lifetime and character. Think of character as vertical margin, determining whether you’ll go up or down after the resurrection. Think of your lifetime as the horizontal margin, seeing how your dates of birth and death compare to the dates of Jesus’ birth and death, including differences between your contemporaries and his. Justification is not automatic, you just think it is because you type everything in Microsoft Word. I use a foundry solid lead movable type press and real wood pulp sheets of paper as well as a drafters kit for my own publishers proofs, rather than relying on the AUTOcad snap feature. But that’s weekday and secular. For your churching purposes, compare yourself as a justified person in the present day to a pre advent Jew who had to be justified by sacrificing a head of livestock from your farm. You might have had to contribute a lamb, a bull, or a goat to a ceremony officiated by a Levite. You spent money on your farm stock, and because of your sin needed to pay temple tax AND give up some of your productive assets. The blood of the bull or lamb in conjunction with your monetary offering justified you. You were then forgiven.

Just forget it, moving right along

 

[Homework]

Just forget it, moving right along

I’m extremely scientific.