Justification by Faith Alone

[Carbon]

That's a good question that I dont think I can really answer. However, I think since the covenant of redemption, as far as God is concerned, it's finished. Time was made for us, and in time (for us) these things are accomplished. As @Ladodgers6 stated, we cannot see it.

God is not subject to time, and I believe He functions in many dimensions. So, as scripture states
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. Revelation 13:8,
God does not take names out of the Book of Life.

Hope this makes sense.
I'm just one of those dumb humans.

After saying this, I do believe we are justified by faith.

I agree with Luther:
Martin Luther famously stated that the church stands or falls on the doctrine of justification by faith.

 

[brightfame52]

After saying this, I do believe we are justified by faith.

I agree with Luther:
Martin Luther famously stated that the church stands or falls on the doctrine of justification by faith.

I believe the elect are also Justified by Faith[in time], when they by Faith find out they had been [past tense] Justified by the Blood of Christ.

 

[Carbon]

I believe the elect are also Justified by Faith[in time], when they by Faith find out they had been [past tense] Justified by the Blood of Christ.

Then we agree.
Why you would add in this part: "when they by Faith find out they had been [past tense] Justified by the Blood of Christ." ... I dont know.

We are either justified by faith or we are not. What we find out in time has nothing to do with our justification, we are only justified once.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have nothing else for you, in my opinion you in error and dont believe the Death/Blood of Christ alone Justified the elect b4 God. And Im not judging your eternal destiny, thats between you and God.

Scripture isn’t opinion but God’s voice, bearing witness to Jesus. As John 5:39 says, “The Scriptures… bear witness about me.” Revelation 19:10 adds, “The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Before proclaiming interpretations, shouldn’t we submit them to the Church, testing against Scripture?

 

[Eleanor]

After saying this, I do believe we are justified by faith.

I agree with Luther:
Martin Luther famously stated that the church stands or falls on the doctrine of justification by faith.

Paul appreciates that (Ro 3:28). . .

 

[brightfame52]

Then we agree.
Why you would add in this part: "when they by Faith find out they had been [past tense] Justified by the Blood of Christ." ... I dont know.

We are either justified by faith or we are not. What we find out in time has nothing to do with our justification, we are only justified once.

Now you sound confused again.

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture isn’t opinion but God’s voice, bearing witness to Jesus. As John 5:39 says, “The Scriptures… bear witness about me.” Revelation 19:10 adds, “The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Before proclaiming interpretations, shouldn’t we submit them to the Church, testing against Scripture?

I dont see where you understand scripture

 

[brightfame52]

Paul appreciates that (Ro 3:28). . .

He appreciated being Justified by Christs Blood as well Rom 5:9

 

[Carbon]

Now you sound confused again.

I just may be. I kinda doubt it though.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I dont see where you understand scripture

I don't want to take any focus off the OP. Thanks for bearing with me.

 

[Ladodgers6]

That's a good question that I dont think I can really answer. However, I think since the covenant of redemption, as far as God is concerned, it's finished. Time was made for us, and in time (for us) these things are accomplished. As @Ladodgers6 stated, we cannot see it.

God is not subject to time, and I believe He functions in many dimensions. So, as scripture states
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. Revelation 13:8,
God does not take names out of the Book of Life.

Hope this makes sense.
I'm just one of those dumb humans.

Well, he did not answer my question. He keeps avoiding the tough questions. If then sinners like already justified by the blood of Christ before hearing, believing and trusting in the Gospel announcement and promises. Then why would the Gospel need to be preached at all? Why do sinners have to believe and confess Christ's name.

This is Hyper-Calvinistic view eliminates evangelizing and preaching the word. And also removes faith from the equation.

I hold to the Covenant of Redemption:

The covenant of redemption, also known as the pactum salutis, is a theological concept in Reformed theology that describes an eternal agreement between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to redeem humanity. In this agreement, the Father chooses the Son as the Redeemer, the Son willingly accepts the role, and the Holy Spirit agrees to apply the benefits of the Son's work to the elect. This covenant forms the basis for all of God's dealings with his chosen people and is the divine blueprint for salvation history.

And my brother you're not dumb.​

 

[Ladodgers6]

Lol I dont really need you to give me a grammar lesson if you understood what I stated. Thats what I stated either way.

Simmer down, we all make mistakes bright. Pride only blinds you to understand and learn. I am always learning. I am not proud to admit when I am wrong. I like to keep learning, to keep reforming.

 

[Ladodgers6]

@Ladodgers6



Yeah I may have said that. The Justification the elect have by the blood of Christ, its a legal transaction between Christ and the Father. He satisfied the Justice of God on behalf of the elect with His Blood Rom 5:9 which Justified them, however the dont know about until its revealed to them by Faith. The elect doesnt see the Legal transaction. Just because they dont realize it, or see it by Faith, it existed.

I beg to differ, they do see it. Especially when one preaches correctly. The OT sacrifices always pointed forward to a coming Messiah who will save them form their sins. This sir has legal ramification attached to it. Every year animal sacrifices were to point for the reason of these yearly blood sacrifices.

Furthermore the Law and its threat and curses brought fear, terror, condemnation and punishment upon all mankind when preached correctly. The Law also served to drive sinners to Christ the only place of refuge.

Consciences also served to condemn sinners, so that they are without excuse. But sinners suppress this truth because they prefer to sin and lust after the sins of the flesh and mind. Even creation pointed to a Creator.

So, when the sweet water of the Gospel is given to those in need of it, they hear Christ's voice, the voice they were aching to hear, the one they were waiting for, and follow him. Because He is the way the truth and the life.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I know one thing, brother, Hyper-Calvinism is heresy.

Yup, and it undermines evangelizing and a sinner needing of Faith to accept the free gifts of Gospel found only in Christ and being united with him by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Carbon]

Well, he did not answer my question. He keeps avoiding the tough questions. If then sinners like already justified by the blood of Christ before hearing, believing and trusting in the Gospel announcement and promises. Then why would the Gospel need to be preached at all? Why do sinners have to believe and confess Christ's name.

This is Hyper-Calvinistic view eliminates evangelizing and preaching the word. And also removes faith from the equation.

I hold to the Covenant of Redemption:

The covenant of redemption, also known as the pactum salutis, is a theological concept in Reformed theology that describes an eternal agreement between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to redeem humanity. In this agreement, the Father chooses the Son as the Redeemer, the Son willingly accepts the role, and the Holy Spirit agrees to apply the benefits of the Son's work to the elect. This covenant forms the basis for all of God's dealings with his chosen people and is the divine blueprint for salvation history.

And my brother you're not dumb.​

Amen!

 

[EarlyActs]

yes

Is our object a perfect God. or is it imperfect doctrines or other men, or even ourselves.

The object should be the perfect righteousness of Christ for our sins.

 

[brightfame52]

Justification by Faith comes later,

First by the Death of Christ for our sins, an debt has been paid, a ransom has been paid, so immediately upon payment the debt is abolished. Jesus by His Death alone obtained Eternal Redemption for us ! Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now the word redemption here is the greek word lutrósis:

, a ransoming, redemption: properly, αἰχμαολωτων, Plutarch, Aratus, 11; for גְּאֻלָּה, Leviticus 2529),48; universally, deliverance, redemption, in the theocratic sense (see λυτρόω, 2 (cf. Graecus Venetus, Leviticus 25:10, etc.; Psalm 48:9 ())): Luke 1:68; Luke 2:38; specifically, redemption from the penalty of sin: Hebrews 9:12.
Upon the shedding of His Own Blood, the immediate release from the penalty of sin took effect,

Now one writer wrote which I agree,

The death of Christ was both a price and a ransom, it served both to pay our debts, and to procure our happiness; he did thereby purchase both our deliverance from sin and death, and all those Spiritual Blessings, present and future, which we stand in need of. The discharge of our debts, and deliverance from punishment, must needs be present and immediate upon the payment of the price, though those Spiritual Blessings be not received till a long time after, as God and Christ shall see it fit to bestow them on us. William Eyre {Justification without Conditions – 1654} William_Eyre​

We may not receive the Knowledge of this "release from the penalty of sin" to years later, but it was still a completed reality by the blood of Christ at the time of the ransom payment to the Justice of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith​

By Faith we have the knowledge and comfort of that reconciliation which Christ hath made between God and us, though we cannot say, that we obtain a right and interest therein by Faith; through Faith we come to know, that God is our God, though our believing doth not make him to be our God. William Eyre {Justification without Conditions –1654}​

 

[Eleanor]

He appreciated being Justified by Christs Blood as well Rom 5:9

Are you sure 'bout that?

 

[Eleanor]

He appreciated being Justified by Christs Blood as well Rom 5:9

Yes, we are declared "not guilty" (justified) by faith in Jesus' atonement (Ro 3:25).