Justification by Faith Alone

[makesends]

@Hazelelponi



Christs Death literally occurred in 33 ad, at that time His Death Justified b4 God all the elect, from ot to end of the age. Now the elect dont receive a knowledge of it until they are born again of the Spirit, given Faith, and with that Faith they come into the Spiritual understanding and knowledge of the Justification given them by the death of Christ in the past at the Cross. Also the elect are never under the wrath of God, even when they are enemies/unbelievers, they have been reconciled to God by His death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Its impossible to be reconciled to God as an unbelieving enemy and under Gods wrath as a unbelieving enemy at the same time. If you stick to your present conviction that the elect are under wrath b4 faith, you deny the reconciliation to God by His death.

What does TIME have to do with it?

 

[makesends]

Its not irrelevant, its the most important thing that ever happened in time, its when He actually paid the penalty of death for the sins of the elect, charged upon Him. Its never wise in my opinion to say the actual death of Christ in time is not relevant.

False equivalence. I didn't say it's not the most important thing that even happened in time. I could add all sorts of things to that thesis, including that it happened at the fullness of time, and at the perfect time, and at the time of God's own choosing. So WHAT, as far as the point goes? Justification is a FACT by God's decree, and HOW it happened is wonderful, and secure. The sequence of how the different related facts happen/happened might give some indication to the Ordo Salutis, but in the end, WHEN those different things happened is not the Ordo Salutis,
Why then, do you limit justification to the TIME of the cross, and not to fact of the cross, the Lamb slain from the Covenant within the Godhead.

Also Im advocating Justification at the Cross, even though I do believe in Justification from eternity, thats not my contention at this point. It was at the Cross the sins of the elect were canceled out against the Law Col 2:13-14

Make your mind up! If you believe in justification from eternity, then why go on about what time it was when the sins of the elect were canceled out?

Who here says Justification didn't happen with Christ's death? We are saying that is not all that God has decreed concerning the matter.

 

[brightfame52]

@makesends

If I was to follow your thinking, the elect sinner shouldn't feel guilty for his present sins, since, after all, they are already forgiven him —

That doesnt make a bit of sense. I know my sins are forgiven, but if I commit adultery, I will feel guilty b4 God for it. Duh Even though I know it wont send me to hell, if anything, I may feel more terrible about it because I know it was for folly like that Christ died for me for. Thats a very shallow comment sir, Im frankly surprised you even said it.

 

[brightfame52]

What does TIME have to do with it?

What kind of question is that ? God created time for His Purpose didn't He ? Is it purposeless to you in His scheme of things ?

 

[brightfame52]

False equivalence. I didn't say it's not the most important thing that even happened in time. I could add all sorts of things to that thesis, including that it happened at the fullness of time, and at the perfect time, and at the time of God's own choosing. So WHAT, as far as the point goes? Justification is a FACT by God's decree, and HOW it happened is wonderful, and secure. The sequence of how the different related facts happen/happened might give some indication to the Ordo Salutis, but in the end, WHEN those different things happened is not the Ordo Salutis,
Why then, do you limit justification to the TIME of the cross, and not to fact of the cross, the Lamb slain from the Covenant within the Godhead.

Make your mind up! If you believe in justification from eternity, then why go on about what time it was when the sins of the elect were canceled out?

Who here says Justification didn't happen with Christ's death? We are saying that is not all that God has decreed concerning the matter.

My mind is made up, you just cant comprehend it. I know it appears to me you are inconsistent in what you believe. If you believe a person isnt Justified b4 God by the merits of Christ death until they perform the act of believing, either b4 or following regeneration, its works. Im sure about that. And Im not judging your salvation, but I know if Justification b4 God depends on any act of man, its works and dishonors Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

@makesends

Who here says Justification didn't happen with Christ's death?

it seems like you are. If the elect were Justified @ the Cross then they are born Justified b4 they believe ! Now make up your mind. Are the elect Justified from their sins b4 God, not guilty b4 they believe ? Yes or no period I say YES period, what say you ?

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

 

[makesends]

@makesends



it seems like you are. If the elect were Justified @ the Cross then they are born Justified b4 they believe ! Now make up your mind. Are the elect Justified from their sins b4 God, not guilty b4 they believe ? Yes or no period I say YES period, what say you ?

Yep. Stuck on time sequence. Ok, run with it, but don't expect everyone to agree with the assumption you make that leads to the statements you make.

 

[makesends]

My mind is made up, you just cant comprehend it. I know it appears to me you are inconsistent in what you believe. If you believe a person isnt Justified b4 God by the merits of Christ death until they perform the act of believing, either b4 or following regeneration, its works. Im sure about that. And Im not judging your salvation, but I know if Justification b4 God depends on any act of man, its works and dishonors Christ.

On the part I underlined and bolded, we are in complete agreement, bro.

Thank you, and all glory and praise to God.

 

[makesends]

What kind of question is that ? God created time for His Purpose didn't He ? Is it purposeless to you in His scheme of things ?

Temporal is not eternal. What God has done does not orient around time, but around his sayso

 

[makesends]

@makesends



That doesnt make a bit of sense. I know my sins are forgiven, but if I commit adultery, I will feel guilty b4 God for it. Duh Even though I know it wont send me to hell, if anything, I may feel more terrible about it because I know it was for folly like that Christ died for me for. Thats a very shallow comment sir, Im frankly surprised you even said it.

Then, you are inconsistent

 

[brightfame52]

Yep. Stuck on time sequence. Ok, run with it, but don't expect everyone to agree with the assumption you make that leads to the statements you make.

Yes or no ? What is your conviction sir ?

 

[brightfame52]

On the part I underlined and bolded, we are in complete agreement, bro.

Thank you, and all glory and praise to God.

Okay I hope so

 

[brightfame52]

Temporal is not eternal. What God has done does not orient around time, but around his sayso

Okay ? And. Are the elect born in time Justified b4 God by the death of Christ ? Yes or No. Example Christ died for your sins imputed to Him back in 33 ad, putting them away, b4 you were born a sinner in whatever year you were born in. When you were born in that year, were you justified b4 God from all your sins because they were blotted out b4 Him back in 33 ad ? Yes or no

 

[brightfame52]

Then, you are inconsistent

Then you judging my heart. When Peter sinned regarding his dissimulation among the gentile believers, and Paul as a faithful Brother rebuked him, and if Peter felt bad about it, and knew he was wrong, does that mean he would have to believe he was no longer Justified b4 God because he felt bad about a sin he committed ? Would he be inconsistent ?

 

[makesends]

Then you judging my heart. When Peter sinned regarding his dissimulation among the gentile believers, and Paul as a faithful Brother rebuked him, and if Peter felt bad about it, and knew he was wrong, does that mean he would have to believe he was no longer Justified b4 God because he felt bad about a sin he committed ? Would he be inconsistent ?

I'm pursuing this no further. You keep bringing up red herrings. I say something, and you think it somehow contradicts reason because you are stuck in this temporal mindset, that can't at least admit there is more going on than meets YOUR eyes. You decide too quickly.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm pursuing this no further. You keep bringing up red herrings. I say something, and you think it somehow contradicts reason because you are stuck in this temporal mindset, that can't at least admit there is more going on than meets YOUR eyes. You decide too quickly.

Okay

 

[Hazelelponi]

Dear @brightfame52

Your zeal for the sufficiency of Christ’s cross to justify the elect (Romans 5:9) is truly encouraging. I, too, deeply rejoice in the finished work of our Savior (John 19:30), and I’m grateful for any opportunity to reflect on the beauty of God's redemptive plan.

To help illustrate how justification fits within God’s eternal purpose and its unfolding in time, I’ve prepared a simple chart grounded in Scripture. My prayer is that it serves not to win a point but to foster understanding as we together seek to honor the truth of our Lord (Psalm 119:160).


Justification in God’s Redemptive Plan

Aspect	Description	Scripture
Eternal Decree	Before time began, God chose His elect and decreed their justification in Christ.	Ephesians 1:4–5 (ESV) Revelation 13:8 (ESV)
Accomplishment at the Cross	In 33 AD, Christ bore the elect’s sin, securing their redemption and satisfying divine justice.	Romans 5:9 (ESV) Colossians 2:14 (ESV)
Application in Time	In due time, the Spirit grants the elect faith, uniting them to Christ, at which point God declares them righteous.	Romans 5:1 (ESV) Ephesians 2:8 (ESV) John 3:36 (ESV)

Explanation:
Picture a king who declares a prisoner’s pardon even before the prisoner is born, then pays the ransom at a set moment, and finally sends a messenger to deliver the pardon. Similarly, in God’s eternal counsel (Ephesians 1:4–5), He decreed the justification of His elect. At the cross (Romans 5:9), Christ secured this by fully satisfying justice. Yet, justification is applied in time—when the Spirit grants faith (Romans 5:1), uniting the sinner to Christ (Galatians 2:16). Until that moment, though chosen, the elect remain “children of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3), but God's purpose ensures they will come to faith (John 6:37), and none will be lost (Romans 8:30).


This framework preserves sola fide, while exalting Christ as the sole ground of our justification (1 Corinthians 1:30). May this deepen our worship of the God who ordains, accomplishes, and applies salvation perfectly in His time—for His glory alone (Psalm 115:1).


Scripture References:

All verses are from the ESV, linked for your convenience:

• Ephesians 1:4–5 ESV: “even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,”
• Revelation 13:8 ESV: “and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.”
• Romans 5:9 ESV: “Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.”
• Colossians 2:14 ESV: “by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.”
• Romans 5:1 ESV: “Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
• Ephesians 2:8 ESV: “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,”
• John 3:36 ESV: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
• Ephesians 2:3 ESV: “among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.”
• John 6:37 ESV: “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.”
• Romans 8:30 ESV: “And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.”
• John 19:30 ESV: “When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, ‘It is finished,’ and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.”
• Psalm 119:160 ESV: “The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.”
• Galatians 2:16 ESV: “yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.”
• 1 Corinthians 1:30 ESV: “And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,”
• Psalm 115:1 ESV: “Not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to your name give glory, for the sake of your steadfast love and your faithfulness!”

In Christ’s love,
Hazelelponi

 

[brightfame52]

@Hazelelponi

In 33 AD, Christ bore the elect’s sin, securing their redemption and satisfying divine justice. Rom 5:9; Col 2:14

This is where we really disagree, you dont have the elect Justified b4 God at the cross, even though the scripture you used says just that, Justified by His Blood. See Blood and His Death are one . You actually deny blood Justification and put it off until the time of application, when they have faith, their act of believing. That to me is Justification by works, by what the person did, and it disregards the previous Justification by blood Rom 5:9

Thanks for your chart, but I respectfully disagree with it, particularly the "accomplishment at the Cross" segment, for you dont have Justification accomplished there.

 

[Arial]

@Hazelelponi



This is where we really disagree, you dont have the elect Justified b4 God at the cross, even though the scripture you used says just that, Justified by His Blood. See Blood and His Death are one . You actually deny blood Justification and put it off until the time of application, when they have faith, their act of believing. That to me is Justification by works, by what the person did, and it disregards the previous Justification by blood Rom 5:9

Thanks for your chart, but I respectfully disagree with it, particularly the "accomplishment at the Cross" segment, for you dont have Justification accomplished there.

The elect are justified by faith.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes from the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17) The NIV words it this way. Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

Our justification is a result of the imputation of Christ's righteousness. And his righteousness is imputed to us because he bore all our sins on the cross. But he did not justify us on the cross, he did the work necessary for us to be justified. We are not justified before we come to faith in Christ. If we were, there would be no need to even come to him. We are ordained to come to Christ in faith. Predestined to be justified.