Jesus was never prayed to once in the Bible

[Runningman]

No kidding.

So what you have demonstrated is that you have no examples of Jesus being prayed to in Scripture. Any other arguments or is this where you begin your bickering again for several pages?

 

[Fred]

So what you have demonstrated

Thanks for your admission that it was a prayer to Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

Thanks for your admission that it was a prayer to Jesus.

If you actually had a good argument you would have posted it by now. You can't even quote a single verse that says "pray to Jesus" lol. How does it feel that the book you attach your belief system to doesn't even say what you claim it does?

To all, here's how to pray according to Scripture:

Matthew 6
6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
9So then, this is how you should pray:
‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be Your name.

 

[Fred]

If you actually had a good argument

You wouldn't have quickly dodged Acts 7:59-60!

Thanks for making that easy for me.

 

[Runningman]

You wouldn't have quickly dodged Acts 7:59-60!

Thanks for making that easy for me.

Already debunked your claims about Acts 7:59-60. You turned and dishonestly claimed I was arguing in favor of Jesus being prayed to. Get real man.

So no verses about Jesus being prayed to in all of Scripture.

 

[Fred]

Already debunked

Debunked?
No, it was rather your false doctrine clunked against Acts 7.

It was a disaster.....not for Acts 7, but for your false doctrine.

 

[Runningman]

Debunked?
No, it was rather your false doctrine clunked against Acts 7.

It was a disaster.....not for Acts 7, but for your false doctrine.

Let's start again. You claimed that the words in Acts 7:59,60 were used of YHWH in the Septuagint yet they are also used of humans in the New Testament. People don't pray to humans. Therefore, the argument you're presenting doesn't refer to prayer. The consequence of your interpretation is that when these words are used of people then it's prayer which is wrong. You have actually provided me a strong argument against you.

The way out of your hole is provide anything about Jesus being prayed to in the Bible. Keep digging. No one has found it yet.

 

[Fred]

Speaking to a human in heaven is not prayer according to scripture.

Yes, it is.
It is prayer that should not be done, but it is still prayer.

Catholics believe that and it's idolatry.

Which contradicts your previous point. They speak to (= pray to) people in heaven.


Stephen spoke to (= prayed to) the Lord Jesus who was in heaven (Acts 7:59-60).

 

[Runningman]

Yes, it is.
It is prayer that should not be done, but it is still prayer.

Ever read the Bible where persons in heaven are speaking to each other? It isn't prayer.

Which contradicts your previous point. They speak to (= pray to) people in heaven.

Nothing was contradicted. Your point was proven to be a non sequitur because it doesn't support your conclusion. Stringing together words from the New and Old Testaments isn't proof. You still have not provided anything that says "Pray to Jesus" or that Jesus was prayed to. Do you understand what your argument is supposed to be now?

 

[Fred]

Ever read the Bible where persons in heaven are speaking to each other? It isn't prayer.

Stephen wasn't in heaven.

Wow! That was easy!

Thanks!

 

[Rella]

It's used in reference to humans, too, such as the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God (Acts 7:54-60) and all over the New Testament and Septuagint. Too many examples to list.

Speaking to a human in heaven is not prayer according to scripture. Catholics believe that and it's idolatry. Are you a Roman Catholic? That would at least explain your confusion.

How embarrassing for you. Still nothing about Jesus being prayed to in all of Scripture.

John 14:13-14​

Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

John 14:14​

If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

John 16:24​

Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

Colossians 3:17​

And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

 

[Runningman]

Stephen wasn't in heaven.

Wow! That was easy!

Thanks!

So by your bad reasoning, John on earth speaking to an elder in heaven is prayer:

Revelation 5
5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
8When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp, and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Revelation 7
13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”
14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

 

[Runningman]

John 14:13-14​

Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

John 14:14​

If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

John 16:24​

Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

Colossians 3:17​

And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Jesus taught that after he was taken to heaven to ask him for nothing, but rather to ask the Father Directly. This is in step with Jesus' teachings that the only person we are to pray to is the Father. He taught this directly in Matthew 6:6-9, saying "When you pray.... pray to the Father." Since Jesus never spoke of praying to himself, no one else ever spoke of praying to Jesus, then we can rightly conclude from Scripture that Jesus never said anything about praying to him.

There are verses where Jesus said to ask him for something while he was still with them (John 14:16,17) but these verses have nothing to do with prayer, but he confirmed that it isn't actually himself who would fulfill the request, but actually God the Father who was in him performing the miraculous works (John 12:12-14),

The idea about what Jesus taught concerning prayer is to ask the Father in the name of Jesus, not to ask Jesus. Jesus also taught about only asking the Father in Matthew 7:11.

Jesus taught to only ask the Father after he was taken to heaven:

John 16​

23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.​

25I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. An hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26In that day you will ask in My name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God. 28I came from the Father and entered the world. In turn, I will leave the world and go to the Father.”​

Paul taught the same things about making our requests known to God, not Jesus.

Philippians 4​

6Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.​

James taught that every good and perfect gift comes from the Father, not Jesus:

James 1​

17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow.​

All of this means that Jesus isn't God.​

 

[Fred]

So by your bad reasoning, John on earth speaking to an elder in heaven is prayer:

Vision.

Try again.


This is fun.

 

[Fred]

Jesus taught that after he was taken to heaven to ask him for nothing,

https://christcentered.community.fo...-of-the-old-testament.1719/page-10#post-82285

 

[Rella]

Jesus taught that after he was taken to heaven to ask him for nothing, but rather to ask the Father Directly. This is in step with Jesus' teachings that the only person we are to pray to is the Father. He taught this directly in Matthew 6:6-9, saying "When you pray.... pray to the Father." Since Jesus never spoke of praying to himself, no one else ever spoke of praying to Jesus, then we can rightly conclude from Scripture that Jesus never said anything about praying to him.

There are verses where Jesus said to ask him for something while he was still with them (John 14:16,17) but these verses have nothing to do with prayer, but he confirmed that it isn't actually himself who would fulfill the request, but actually God the Father who was in him performing the miraculous works (John 12:12-14),

The idea about what Jesus taught concerning prayer is to ask the Father in the name of Jesus, not to ask Jesus. Jesus also taught about only asking the Father in Matthew 7:11.

Jesus taught to only ask the Father after he was taken to heaven:

John 16​

23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.​

25I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. An hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you this way, but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26In that day you will ask in My name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God. 28I came from the Father and entered the world. In turn, I will leave the world and go to the Father.”​

Paul taught the same things about making our requests known to God, not Jesus.

Philippians 4​

6Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.​

James taught that every good and perfect gift comes from the Father, not Jesus:

James 1​

17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow.​

All of this means that Jesus isn't God.​

The title of this thread is Jesus was never prayed to once in the bible.

Jesus told them to ask him. WHILE ON EARTH.

 

[Runningman]

Vision.

Try again.


This is fun.

This is fun watching you get pushed further and further into a corner.

By your reasoning, Stephen had a vision too! Same root word for what Stephen and Peter saw used of visions in Scripture.

Acts 7​

56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”​

​

Acts 10​

11He saw heaven open and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.​

You've completely undermined your premise. So by your argument, Jesus wasn't prayed to!

 

[Fred]

This is fun watching you get pushed further and further into a corner.

By your reasoning, Stephen had a vision too! Same root word for what Stephen and Peter saw used of visions in Scripture.

Acts 7​

56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”​

​

Acts 10​

11He saw heaven open and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.​

You've completely undermined your premise. So by your argument, Jesus wasn't prayed to!

I had a feeling you would step in it.

And you did.

The vision took place when Stephen was in the city.
The prayer took place later on after he was dragged out of the city (Acts 7:58).

Thanks so much for making this very easy for me.

 

[Runningman]

The title of this thread is Jesus was never prayed to once in the bible.

Jesus told them to ask him. WHILE ON EARTH.

Asking someone on earth for something isn't prayer. Before Jesus was taken to heaven, in John 16:23-28, he said stop asking him for anything once he's with God, but rather ask the Father directly.

 

[Runningman]

I had a feeling you would step in it.

And you did.

The vision took place when Stephen was in the city.
The prayer took place later on after he was dragged out of the city. (Acts 7:58).

Thanks so much for making this very easy for me.

So in Revelation when John is speaking to elders in heaven in a vision it isn't prayer. When Stephen was having a vision then it isn't prayer either. haha classic. You have lost your argument buddy. Good game.