Jesus isn't the Lord of heaven and earth

[Runningman]

According to Scripture, Jesus referred to his Father, the only true God, as the Lord of both heaven and earth.

Matt 11​

25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.​

John and Peter, praying to God together, referred to Him as the Sovereign Lord and Creator of heaven and Earth while referring to Jesus as His servant.

Acts 4​

24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.​

27...Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed.​

Paul said the God who created everything is the Lord of heaven and earth.

Acts 17​

24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.​

In summary, Jesus said that the Lord of heaven and earth is the Father while Peter and John referred to the Sovereign Lord as the creator of heaven and earth. Paul said the Lord of heaven and earth is the Creator of everything.

All of this means is that the Father is the Lord of heaven, earth, and Creator of everything while Jesus is His anointed servant. No one believed Jesus is God or the Creator, but rather they believed Jesus is God's anointed servant and the Father is the only true God.

John 17​

3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You[the Father], the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.​

 

[CrowCross]

This saying comes from John 17:3

"3 Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

Yes, that is what it says...no argument from me.

Those that are hostile to or have an opposition to the divinity of Christ Jesus like to pull out this verse as proof that Jesus Christ isn't God.

But, what is the context? The context is that Jesus is in prayer and addressing God the Father. I don't think any of the Jesus is God divinity deniers can deny that.


Considering that it makes complete sense that Jesus in prayer seeing how Jesus is addressing and referring to God the Father separately and directly. Praying in that manner and terms would be completely normal for God the Son to address God the Father. It should be understood that a distinction of person does not equate to a lack of oneness.


It can be said that the Father is also addressed in such fashion, that is.... considering the Father and the world’s false gods and idols. Yes, the Father is the one true God and not a false god or idol. More can be read about here. Basically ‘the only true God’ is directed against the many false, spurious gods of the heathen.

It can also be said that man may know God the Father in this sense, that is the one true God.... and not know him in Christ. Some here demonstrate that.

We also must recognize that according to Phil 2 Christ Jesus "emptied" himself....also know as the kenosis...and took on the role of a servant. That is Jesus allowed Himself to subservient to the Father when the Word who was God became flesh. From this position of servitude kenosis Jesus placed the Father above Him addressing God the Father from the position of Jesus being in the role of a man just as we are. John 17:4 tells us in this subservient position Jesus glorified God the Father by accomplishing the work He gave Jesus to do. Jesus asked the Father to...."5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed."


Paul in Phil 2 then tells us of what happened.... 9 Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names.

from the position spoken of above Jesus who is also God and could address the Father as the one true God or His God.

 

[Fred]

According Scripture, Jesus referred to his Father, the only true God, as the Lord of both heaven and earth.

John wrote that Jesus is "Lord of lords" while He (Jesus) is in heaven (Revelation 17:14; 19:16).

Therefore, Jesus is the Lord of heaven.


Paul teaches Jesus is the Lord of the earth in 1 Corinthians 10:26.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/1-corinthians-8-6-lord-yhwh-1-corinthians-10-22-26.1341/#post-53179

Therefore, Jesus is the Lord of heaven and earth.
Your OP has been easily refuted.

 

[Runningman]

John wrote that Jesus is "Lord of lords" while He (Jesus) is in heaven (Revelation 17:14; 19:16).

Therefore, Jesus is the Lord of heaven.


Paul teaches Jesus is the Lord of the earth in 1 Corinthians 10:26.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/1-corinthians-8-6-lord-yhwh-1-corinthians-10-22-26.1341/#post-53179

Therefore, Jesus is the Lord of heaven and earth.
Your OP has been easily refuted.

You have what is called eisegesis which would be a “reading into” the text. Jesus is never called the “Lord of heaven and earth” because that’s a title reserved only for God. The Bible says the Lord of heaven and earth is the Father.

All of the New Testament and Old Testament testify to this fact. You’ve refuted nothing and you cannot.

 

[Runningman]

This saying comes from John 17:3

"3 Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

Yes, that is what it says...no argument from me.

Those that are hostile to or have an opposition to the divinity of Christ Jesus like to pull out this verse as proof that Jesus Christ isn't God.

But, what is the context? The context is that Jesus is in prayer and addressing God the Father. I don't think any of the Jesus is God divinity deniers can deny that.


Considering that it makes complete sense that Jesus in prayer seeing how Jesus is addressing and referring to God the Father separately and directly. Praying in that manner and terms would be completely normal for God the Son to address God the Father. It should be understood that a distinction of person does not equate to a lack of oneness.


It can be said that the Father is also addressed in such fashion, that is.... considering the Father and the world’s false gods and idols. Yes, the Father is the one true God and not a false god or idol. More can be read about here. Basically ‘the only true God’ is directed against the many false, spurious gods of the heathen.

It can also be said that man may know God the Father in this sense, that is the one true God.... and not know him in Christ. Some here demonstrate that.

We also must recognize that according to Phil 2 Christ Jesus "emptied" himself....also know as the kenosis...and took on the role of a servant. That is Jesus allowed Himself to subservient to the Father when the Word who was God became flesh. From this position of servitude kenosis Jesus placed the Father above Him addressing God the Father from the position of Jesus being in the role of a man just as we are. John 17:4 tells us in this subservient position Jesus glorified God the Father by accomplishing the work He gave Jesus to do. Jesus asked the Father to...."5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed."


Paul in Phil 2 then tells us of what happened.... 9 Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names.

from the position spoken of above Jesus who is also God and could address the Father as the one true God or His God.

Do not derail this thread with the first comment. This thread is about Jesus not being the Lord of heaven and Earth. Please speak directly about the OP.

Is Jesus ever called the Lord of heaven and earth? No.

Is the Father called the Lord of heaven and earth? Yes

Is just the servant of the Lord? Yes

Is Jesus the Father? No.

I hope that helps.

 

[Fred]

You have what is called eisegesis which would be a “reading into” the text.

Something you failed to prove.

Jesus is never called the “Lord of heaven and earth” because that’s a title reserved only for God.

There is more than just one way to express a truth claim.

The Bible says the Lord of heaven and earth is the Father.

See my previous response.

Your OP is a sinking ship, and it is going down even faster based on your terrible response here.

Love it.

 

[Fred]

Is Jesus the Father? No.

Which doesn't refute Trinitarianism.

 

[Runningman]

Something you failed to prove.




There is more than just one way to express a truth claim.




See my previous response.

Your OP is a sinking ship, and it is going down even faster based on your terrible response here.

Love it.

So you have nothing about Jesus being called the Lord of heaven and earth?

Game. Set match.

Too easy.

Jesus isn’t God according to scripture.

 

[Runningman]

Which doesn't refute Trinitarianism.

The Bible debunks trinitarianism.

 

[Fred]

John and Peter, praying to God together, referred to Him as the Sovereign Lord and Creator of heaven and Earth while referring to Jesus as His servant.

Acts 4​

24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.​

27...Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed.​

The same Greek word for "Sovereign Lord" is used in reference to Jesus in 2 Timothy 2:21; 2 Peter 2:1; Jude 4 and Revelation 6:10.

The ship you are on is sinking even further and faster.

Keep up the awful work.

 

[Fred]

So you have nothing

Nothing for you because you close your eyes to the evidence I gave.

 

[Fred]

The Bible debunks trinitarianism.

Another assertion without proof.

 

[EarlyActs]

According to Scripture, Jesus referred to his Father, the only true God, as the Lord of both heaven and earth.

Matt 11​

25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.​

John and Peter, praying to God together, referred to Him as the Sovereign Lord and Creator of heaven and Earth while referring to Jesus as His servant.

Acts 4​

24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.​

27...Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed.​

Paul said the God who created everything is the Lord of heaven and earth.

Acts 17​

24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.​

In summary, Jesus said that the Lord of heaven and earth is the Father while Peter and John referred to the Sovereign Lord as the creator of heaven and earth. Paul said the Lord of heaven and earth is the Creator of everything.

All of this means is that the Father is the Lord of heaven, earth, and Creator of everything while Jesus is His anointed servant. No one believed Jesus is God or the Creator, but rather they believed Jesus is God's anointed servant and the Father is the only true God.

John 17​

3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You[the Father], the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.​

Your samples are too few.

 

[Runningman]

The same Greek word for "Sovereign Lord" is used in reference to Jesus in 2 Timothy 2:21; 2 Peter 2:1; Jude 4 and Revelation 6:10.

The ship you are on is sinking even further and faster.

Keep up the awful work.

Don’t make this difficult for yourself.You have nothing about Jesus being called the Lord of heaven and earth. You lost.

 

[Runningman]

Nothing for you because you close your eyes to the evidence I gave.

And yet, as usual, you’re making a lot of noise and failing to quote a single example of Jesus being the Lord of heaven and earth. You don’t have a scriptural rebuttal.

 

[Runningman]

Another assertion without proof.

Read the OP where I proved the trinity is false. Are you paying attention?

 

[Fred]

Don’t make this difficult for yourself.You have nothing about Jesus being called the Lord of heaven and earth. You lost.

2 Timothy 2:21; 2 Peter 2:1; Jude 4 and Revelation 6:10 aren't going away.

 

[Runningman]

Your samples are too few.

They prove Jesus isn’t the Lord of heaven and earth. Those are the best ones in the New Testament. There are more in the Old Testament.

 

[Fred]

And yet, as usual, you’re making a lot of noise and failing to quote a single example of Jesus being the Lord of heaven and earth. You don’t have a scriptural rebuttal.

I already did that in my first response, but you still haven't opened your eyes.

 

[Runningman]

2 Timothy 2:21; 2 Peter 2:1; Jude 4 and Revelation 6:10 aren't going away.

They don’t call Jesus the Lord of heaven and earth. How embarrassing for trinitarianism. They don’t have anything in the Bible about their god being the lord of heaven and earth. It’s only the Father who is the Lord of heaven and earth according to scripture.