Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

[Ritajanice]

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

For those whom He knew beforehand, He predetermined their destiny, not their day to day decisions of life.

Amen!....Praise God...thank you for that scripture..makes perfect sense...that is the POWERFUL “ LIVING “ word of God.

 

[Deleted member 6]

So your original statement means nothing, since God's ways are contrary to human nature.

God's ways are contrary to fallen man's desire.

 

[Deleted member 6]

SO no choice in the matter - the Biblical Calvinist mantra.

Man makes choices all the time, but they are never contrary to his desires.

 

[Selah7]

Because I was chosen to be on the basketball team means I don't have free will?

You don't understand the free will of the Bible.

It’s you who doesn’t understand.

 

[Selah7]

It's free will if you choose to do it because you prefer it, and they all prefer it and choose it.

You are not understanding free will as it is presented in the Bible and which, by the way, is not an issue in the Bible.
It's an external contrived concern of man.

It’s you who doesn’t understand election and predestination.

 

[Eleanor]

It is not a verse, it is an observation of what we see in Scripture, as in Josh 24:15.

No one is free in their will, or otherwise, until in Christ; John 8:36. Otherwise our wills are bound to our fallen nature and desires.

The Bible presents a limited free will--power to freely and willing choose, without external force or constraint, what one prefers.

It's hard to see why anyone argues against that.

 

[Eleanor]

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

For those whom He knew beforehand, He predetermined their destiny, not their day to day decisions of life.

Now we're down to it.

Their day to day decisions in life is the meaning of free will, nothing more.

No one can will themselves into heaven, that is only by God's will.

 

[Eleanor]

It’s you who doesn’t understand election and predestination.

Election and predestination are about God's work, not man's work.

Free will is about man, not God.

Now I see where the problem lies.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

God's ways are contrary to fallen man's desire.

And ALL MEN are fallen - until

 

[Deleted member 6]

And ALL MEN are fallen - until

Exactly

 

[FutureAndAHope]

We know that Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world, this is an unchangeable fact.

1Pe 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Yet there are plans that change. King David as an example states:

Psa 139:16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

God planned David's life. To what degree it does not state. But his life was planned. But we know that God is not responsible for David's sin.

Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

So man is at least responsible for his own sins. And we know sins have consequences, story-changing consequences. A son born in fornication can live a long life, and influence many.

We see when David sinned, that God changed David's course setting into motion a corrective plan.

2Sa 12:10 Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.'

So although God may well have planned out the people who will exist, it does not mean these plans are static. They could change based upon man's actions. We see this in Genisis:

Gen 6:5-7 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

We see here the LORD was sorry he had made man. You can not be sorry for something you have perfectly planned out. The LORD in seeing how bad man had become limited the lifespan of man to 120 years.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

We see also in this scripture that God describes a "striving" or trying to change man. I believe God has an eternal plan in place but it shifts based upon how man responds to God.

 

[Deleted member 6]

We know that Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world, this is an unchangeable fact.

1Pe 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Yet there are plans that change. King David as an example states:

Psa 139:16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

God planned David's life. To what degree it does not state. But his life was planned. But we know that God is not responsible for David's sin.

Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

So man is at least responsible for his own sins. And we know sins have consequences, story-changing consequences. A son born in fornication can live a long life, and influence many.

We see when David sinned, that God changed David's course setting into motion a corrective plan.

2Sa 12:10 Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.'

So although God may well have planned out the people who will exist, it does not mean these plans are static. They could change based upon man's actions. We see this in Genisis:

Gen 6:5-7 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

We see here the LORD was sorry he had made man. You can not be sorry for something you have perfectly planned out. The LORD in seeing how bad man had become limited the lifespan of man to 120 years.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

We see also in this scripture that God describes a "striving" or trying to change man. I believe God has an eternal plan in place but it shifts based upon how man responds to God.

My friend, God does not "go with the flow" in regards to what man does. God does not change plans "mid-stream". Everything that man does is in accordance to His will.

 

[fastfredy0]

Everything that man does is in accordance to His will.

Agreed, but that's a "mouthful".

 

[Grumix88]

Part 1: The real wisdom to find in the bible ! Part of freewill.

People we have done good and we have found questions that show us that there is a way to find our purpose or personal mission God gave us to do his will in this world. And some have found the answers to their questions and one ask the question of the difference between wisdom, intelligence, knowledge, intution, and instincts that we use in our mind to use when we decide and we use in our life. All this abilites exist and pyschology explains part of our mind and brain use them to discover life and how life functions. The difference is intelligence.

The ability for the brain is what your brain knows and apply to your life to decide move, calculate, and decide. Intelligence is limited but the promblem is you do evil and people use evil is more easier to do. Good is an option but if a person is educated and knows only evil it is going to be destroyed. You don't use your mind and life for a full purpose of what your originally meant and God wanted.

Intelligence can be used for good or evil you can have an iq 160 but your evil you will destroy your life and won't realize your potential.

Knowledge is the experience of those people who learn from errors and tries based on facts and logic. Sometimes logic is basic of human efforts in our history the people wrote in books their experience and thanks to them we know facts and thanks to that we can decide scientifically, pyscological, and logical based on experience and reading those books. It is good but will tell ya that for a christian it is not the base for you to find the answers God gives you in the bible ? Why ?

Simple people experiences of those people have errors and see God want us to believe in faith and have faith to use in our life and our course in life. You will see in course of history of the bible God has proven those people wrong ! Sigmund Freud, Confucius, Socrates, and Nietzsche they are wrong and their logic had errors but remember always pinned against God and what the bible says. The bible has proven them wrong in logic and God using his miraculous works of God. Has proven all of humanity laws of physics and logic are limited and fail because logic and his system is superior to all. God holded time in the bible and he can do it, God cured the sick in the old testament, parted the red sea, Jesus cured and is man who was prophet. Logic and facts against God can be changed by hsi will because he is God and he is creator of all the universe and this angers scientist and philosophers.


You cannot use human experience and human logic to understand the universe we are small humans that only stand in the existence of this universe for a short time compare to all the things God created. We have limits and i'm happy our God is beyond all that and has those athourities and shows us our purpose and teaches us that love and faith is the path for us to know more than all that and he gives us the wisdom which is the most important thing for us us in our life of our mind. Will get to that but scientist and philosophers is that all their experience and facts come from God and I believe science can answers some God's creations and systems he gives.

 

[Grumix88]

Part 2: The real wisdom to find in the bible ! Part of freewill.

But still knowledge is based on our limits to see with our eyes and touch and feel with our body. The physical is relied or the body is relied on to assert on facts and logic. If you based your life on what you see is what you believe in or you believe in what you touch and based on experience you base your life on those people what they touch and they saw you will see you will get some answers but majority you will get errors. Why ?

Because they don't know it all and wars, prejudice, and errors come from human logic that what they cannot understand they must destroy to keep control and fear the strange so your life does not change and it si easy. This is the basic of humans civilization you all know it and depends on some people what their errors are in history. Sin is in us people and we are limited and all of humanity is basic to that. People you can use knowledge for good and evil but the reality it is better to use for the Lord and do service to him and find that knowledge can do good if you do it his way. God didn't give our brain or mind to take the right advantages in life he gave it to us to learn from our erros and become better people and the bible will guide us in using those books and discerning which serve him to help psychologically humanity. All is for a purpose said in the bible.


Instinct is the natural ability of the body to guide your life and react to a moment in life. Instinct does not rely on good or evil but survival it will use it as tools to survive. It will be used to survive in the jungle and dangers it can move your body with out you noticing it sometimes it is good to have instinct because it can evade danger and if you feel a piano falling on you. You move without noticing it. It is important but because of truamas or evil in your life. Fear in you it cannot work and it is blocked by your memories and truamas. instinct is important and when you make decisions in your life that decide your future it is important that you make decision in quick and effective way. Why ?

 

[Grumix88]

Part 3: The real wisdom to find in the bible ! Part of freewill.

Sometimes you don't realize if you push your friend from a fall from a canyon it will work or notice someone who is going to steal from you and your body moves to stop them helps for reason to keep the object in case you needed in a moment in your life to save someone or evade being late from a bus to reach your job and don't get fired. The bad thing is that your instinct are from your ancestry and perhaps you were a viking or roman soldier and your not normal compare to others because your violent and react faster to violence and you cannot control urges and you destroy your life and hurt everyone you love. Sometimes it happens and you need training and it will help you. God will help to change it and prayer helps you clean your life so truamas go, fear go, and your instincts become natural again like God made you without the violence and use them for good.

Next is intuition that is powerful ability that your mind not pyshically will react like instinct but will do things spirtually. Sometimes intuition will help ya to avoid a dark alley and make the decisions that your future depend and know naturally and automatically to reject evil ways and avoid jobs that might take to an accident or troubles. The difference from intuition and instinct is that will tell ya intuition is based on the mind and the subconsciouness and intuition cannot control instinct based on your violent past or you limited knowledge about it. It is better to know more about it and it involves knowing yourself more. That the important things is that intution is above if you lose control of your life and take drugs that make go overdose and your body loses conscience instinct will control your body like king Nebuchadnezzar who went wild and became an animal again. Sometimes in life intuition will be guided by God to avoid dark alleys and God uses your intuition and you must pure and clean yoruself to be a better servant for the lord and a tool so you can do what God's people did in the bible. It is hard but can be done and the bible helps.


The next one is the important one because ti is how God wants to use your mind and best way you will find what God wants for you. Wisdom is like knowledge based on error and tries that what you read from books of knowledge you know logic and science and facts. But a diffrence from them all is that intelligence can lead you to evil and wisdom is using your mind based on your experience and your errors and how to fix them in your life based on the knowledge from books and use your mind to do what you want but this the important to do things like God wants. Yes this hard because the error of humanity and they don't notice is sin they do not acknowledge errors and want to be perfect and intelligence, knowledge, instincts can stop you and do not permit you to do God's will ! Becuase it is not the right way to do what God does and correct you. We are all blind and we have erros because we are educated by the world and this is the way to fix it God's way.

 

[Grumix88]

Part 4: The real wisdom to find in the bible ! Part of freewill.

Because wisdom is not based on high iq intelligence you can be so smart and know everything digitally but do not know love and not be loved you destroy yourself automatically. You know people who have went that way Hitler, Kings of France, Popes who use war and violence they were smart but in the end their intelligence destroy them and they could not fool God and ended them. That is reality the people with glasses you see in television and are nerds sometimes looks can be decieving and we dont' know some of them can be evil killers like them but serial killers that have high iq but because they were abuse they became murderers and thei parents beat them. It is serious and it is human nature that is in humanity that exist and is evil. God will judge them and remember let God judge them.

Intelligence is limited or go to be like scribes and use knowledge but unfortunately scribes and librarians you see them in the library not the modern ones but history there have been some selfish ones. They keep books wasted their time collecting them all and dont' read them them it is impossible. But to control knowledge so the poor can't study them and keep it to themselves. They keep control of them so that way they want to control and think they can control you. They wasted their lives and collected them all and became a wall then a prison to you. And you finally realize your alone and no one loves you and family left because pursuit of knowledge blinded of the importantant things in life. Your family and your friends, no don't end up like them -_- they messed up, they made their errors.


Knowledge is to help people so people can advance in their life and achieve what they want. Millions suffer so the future children can make better decisions thanks to their self sacrifice and denial of themselves. Your those children but the world blinds you and instead of taking God's path you decide to take your path because you copy the people around you and see television.

 

[Grumix88]

Part 5: The real wisdom to find in the bible ! Part of freewill

What monkey sees, monkey does and it's the simple solution all the world gives because we are not original because we do not want to know ourselves and we see others and we wanna be like them because it is the easy solution the world gave it to you. We wanna buy make up and jewelry and expensive cars because we think it is the solution everyone wants and is looking for and still people make those mistakes. Becuase the real us is not those things people the real us the things that make us happy our people, our friends. Be the nascar driver you want, the doctor you want to be, and be the Person God wants you to be above all !

The real wisdom is the real reason the word is meant for is to do the right thing, no no no not the right thing for corporeal body, the physical, not for science with numbers, not the right thing the world says, niether the right for money, this will shock you niether for your friends, and your family ! The right thing God's way that pinnacle of the human mind to achieve ! The ultimate thing Man can use thier mind, their brain, and their body to do the right thing God's way ! Is to submit to God's will and do what he wants ! It is hard and how ? By denying yourself and self sacrifice is how !


This is hard but it is the most important thing that bible says about God's wisdome giving to us, humans who are inferior and not worthy of God's love and wisdom. Errors happen and man never know it's purpose and loses it self in the world and dies not knowing what wisdom is and how to uses for God and he wants it use for the mission he wants, he sent you. This is important and if you have read to here you will strive more and do more and find what you were looking for. ;D.

 

[Grumix88]

Part 6: The real wisdom to find in the bible ! Part of freewill

It is not easy but who has wisdom and knows this is King Solomon the bible has said it. He did ask God for wisdom and God wanted him to have to see a human who did have an IQ beyond 200 humans do not know how smart he is but him and Jesus were among the smartest humans ever he could reach 500 IQ or more also said in the internet by various people Enoch was one of the smartest for God talked to him and showed him things that no human could know God enlighten those who talk to him and God wanted to keep him because he was special ;D. Look for the wisdom of the bible and you will do what you want in your life find the secret of your life. Like the bible says.

Search the kingdom first and not the world first.


Matthew 6:33 King James Version (KJV) But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Look for his things first brethren look for his love and hsi faith he gives in the bible and pray for wisdom. Make wisdom your base not intilligence, knowledge, or instinct. They were not meant for evil they were meant for good and to serve wisdom.

Here an example of what King Solomon says so you can search and obtain.

King Solomon believed that wisdom is the ability to distinguish right from wrong, and that it's important to live wisely and successfully.



What did King Solomon say about wisdom?

• "Give your servant an understanding mind… able to discern the difference between good and evil".
• "Get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding. Cherish her".
• "Do not say, 'Why were the old days better than these?' For it is not wise to ask such questions".

 

[Grumix88]

Part 7: The real wisdom to find in the bible ! Part of freewill

How did God give Solomon wisdom?

• God gave Solomon a wise and discerning mind after he prayed for it.

What does the Bible say about wisdom?

• Wisdom will not enter a deceitful soul, nor dwell in a body enslaved to sin.
• The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the HOLY ONE is understanding.

What can we learn from King Solomon's wisdom?

• We can learn to live wisely and successfully by distinguishing right from wrong.
• We can learn to avoid reliving the past.

King Solomon achieve wisdom God wants but he failed because he made errors like people who only seek knowledge like the librarian or scientist that denies God exist and believe he know everything and he is a God. No those errors exist in all of history for women and men. If you didn't waste your time studying in Cambridge or Harvard wanting to the best but didn't attend with your family and they are gone. Who will you celebrate if you The wisdoms belongs to God not to us, remember God borrows us his wisdom, his will, and his love. Deny yourself and sacrifice everything to the lord and he will fix your promblems, he will fix your errors, you will be forgiving, and he will let you find your personal mission. God will give is because he is love, because he loves you !
Is that you don't get it who also is wise like king Solomon ? Jesus !