Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

[Bob Carabbio]

Ppl makes choices all the time. But no one chooses contrary to their nature is what we, and the Bible, teach.

So how do you handle "I" in TULIP???

 

[Deleted member 6]

So how do you handle "I" in TULIP???

That those drawn will come. It’s an effectual calling. When He calls them, they will come to Him.

 

[Eleanor]

So how do you handle "I" in TULIP???

The will does not operate in a vacuum.

It is governed by the disposition, and chooses what the disposition prefers.

"Free will," as presented in the Bible, "is the power to choose freely and willing, without external force or constraint, what one prefers."

God works in the disposition and gives one to prefer faith and obedience to him.

And that is what "one freely and willingly, without external force or constraint" chooses, which is the operation of free will.

God does not violate free will in bringing men to himself, he uses it to do so.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That those drawn will come. It’s an effectual calling. When He calls them, they will come to Him.

So your original statement means nothing, since God's ways are contrary to human nature.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That those drawn will come. It’s an effectual calling. When He calls them, they will come to Him.

SO no choice in the matter - the Biblical Calvinist mantra.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The will does not operate in a vacuum.

It is governed by the disposition, and chooses what the disposition prefers.

"Free will," as presented in the Bible, "is the power to choose freely and willing, without external force or constraint, what one prefers."

God works in the disposition and gives one to prefer faith and obedience to him.

And that is what "one freely and willingly, without external force or constraint" chooses, which is the operation of free will.

God does not violate free will in bringing men to himself, he uses it to do so.

And yet God's election is "Irresistable", so obviously Man's "WILL" is unimportant.

 

[Eleanor]

SO no choice in the matter - the Biblical Calvinist mantra.

No, there is absolute choice of what one prefers in the matter, which is the meaning of free will as presented in the Bible.

God works in their disposition which governs the will, giving them to prefer to come, and so
they do so freely and willingly choosing what they prefer, which is the meaning of free will as it operates in the Bible.

 

[Eleanor]

And yet God's election is "Irresistable", so obviously Man's "WILL" is unimportant.

Free will is about preference.

As long as man is choosing what he prefers, there is no violation of his free will.

 

[ReverendRV]

And yet God's election is "Irresistable", so obviously Man's "WILL" is unimportant.

I would say that God's Will is irresistible, because it trespasses the Will of those who are at Enmity with God...

Would you at least agree with this?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I would say that God's Will is irresistible, because it trespasses the Will of those who are at Enmity with God...

Would you at least agree with this?

Makes no sense.

 

[ReverendRV]

Makes no sense.

Are you saying that our Native Enmity with God, doesn't make Biblical sense?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Are you saying that our Native Enmity with God, doesn't make Biblical sense?

Nope, your choice of grammar didn't make sense to me.

Naturally "Man" is at enmity with God, and in practical terms, man only REPENTS/Surrenders under CONVICTION OF SIN, when God backs him into a corner, with only one way out. (The Hound of Heaven -Francis Thomas 1890). The extents that God will go in reaching us is documented in Job, who finally repents in Chapter 42.

 

[ReverendRV]

Nope, your choice of grammar didn't make sense to me. Natrurally "Man" is at enmity with God. and in practical terms, he only REPENTS under CONVICTION OF SIN, when God backes him into a corner, with only one way out.

That's close enough Bob...

Since God backs those who are at Enmity with him into a corner, doesn't God irresistibly cross the Line of their Will?

 

[Ritajanice]

I would say that God's Will is irresistible, because it trespasses the Will of those who are at Enmity with God...

Would you at least agree with this?

I would...LOL.

Amen!!

 

[ReverendRV]

I would...LOL.

Amen!!

I've been doing this for years now, Lol. I say things in a way that perhaps 99% all Christians will answer Yes to me, but not all Posters on a Christian Forum are part of the 99%

 

[Selah7]

Is this Free Will?

Deuteronomy 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
View attachment 240

 

[Selah7]

Is this Free Will?

Deuteronomy 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
View attachment 240

And yet, the apostle Paul did not have free will on the road to Damascus. God pretty much said, “YOU ARE MINE.”

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks
Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Paul was made an apostle by the "will of God,” not by the "will of Paul.”

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That's close enough Bob...

Since God backs those who are at Enmity with him into a corner, doesn't God irresistibly cross the Line of their Will?

Nope, He simply "works with our surroundings", and allows us stupid humans to "dig our own graves" with our own human "wisdom".

I had mine dug in Houston in 1963. But in all honesty, IF I had been SURE that He'd come to me in conviction of SIN again and give me another chance - I probably would have showed Him the door that time too, like I'd done several times over the last decade.

There WAS a "sense of finality", the last time, though.

After the deed was done, I remember my first thoughts were: "why did I wait so long???"

 

[Eleanor]

And yet, the apostle Paul did not have free will on the road to Damascus. God pretty much said, “YOU ARE MINE.”

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks
Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Paul was made an apostle by the "will of God,” not by the "will of Paul.”

Was it against Paul's will or in agreement with Paul's will?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Was it against Paul's will or in agreement with Paul's will?

Under the circumstances, with new understandings, Paul freely Agreed (God made him a deal he couldn't refuse, as it were).