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Is Double Predestination Biblical?

Sure...

So how can we help her now?
I have LOTS of family that I have serious doubts about …
  • A grandfather that worked his but off to be a good man all his life and never had a need for church.
  • A grandmother that went to church every Easter to be seen in her new hat (and no other time of the year)
  • Catholic Grandparents whose faith was in their baptism and last rights.
  • Aunts that claimed “Christanity” but really meant new age spirituality.
  • An atheist father.
  • A brother that started asking questions about God … then was murdered.
  • Another brother that accepted Jesus, internalized the pain and put a bullet through his skull to stop the pain.
I lean on the words that God said to Moses when Moses wanted to know God more intimately. God said THIS is who I am …

Romans 9:15 [ESV] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

The choice is not based on what WE THINK is right or just. So what do YOU believe about the character of God? Do you trust him to do the right thing?
 
I have LOTS of family that I have serious doubts about …
  • A grandfather that worked his but off to be a good man all his life and never had a need for church.
  • A grandmother that went to church every Easter to be seen in her new hat (and no other time of the year)
  • Catholic Grandparents whose faith was in their baptism and last rights.
  • Aunts that claimed “Christanity” but really meant new age spirituality.
  • An atheist father.
  • A brother that started asking questions about God … then was murdered.
  • Another brother that accepted Jesus, internalized the pain and put a bullet through his skull to stop the pain.
I lean on the words that God said to Moses when Moses wanted to know God more intimately. God said THIS is who I am …

Romans 9:15 [ESV] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

The choice is not based on what WE THINK is right or just. So what do YOU believe about the character of God? Do you trust him to do the right thing?
Wow!!!
... I am impressed by what God has done with you. You da man! (because of Him)
 
2025-04-09 20_11_03-Kingdom of God Explained — Mozilla Firefox.png
 
That is something that probably won't ever go away. It shows your deep love and concern for them. I am sure most if not all of us deal with it. I don't think that any knowledge or understanding that is available to us will make it go away. No biblical terms or interpretations. And we don't know exactly what happens or what God might have done even in the final moments of someone's life. Keep your heart set on God. Some of the Reformed writers from earlier centuries are worth a read. A good one is "Communion With God" by John Owen. They were not as scattered and distracted as we are today. They were serious about pondering the things of God and you can see that in their writing. It isn't technical with this name and that name for this and that, but just a deep pondering of God. It brings a lot of peace.
I wrote down the title to purchase it later on. My Mom passed in 2016. One of my sisters died st age 45. If you knew my family, you'd know they were not going to beg for salvation in the end. I don't think they even believed in heaven or hell.
 
I have LOTS of family that I have serious doubts about …
  • A grandfather that worked his but off to be a good man all his life and never had a need for church.
  • A grandmother that went to church every Easter to be seen in her new hat (and no other time of the year)
  • Catholic Grandparents whose faith was in their baptism and last rights.
  • Aunts that claimed “Christanity” but really meant new age spirituality.
  • An atheist father.
  • A brother that started asking questions about God … then was murdered.
  • Another brother that accepted Jesus, internalized the pain and put a bullet through his skull to stop the pain.
I lean on the words that God said to Moses when Moses wanted to know God more intimately. God said THIS is who I am …-

Romans 9:15 [ESV] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

The choice is not based on what WE THINK is right or just. So what do YOU believe about the character of God? Do you trust him to do the right thing?
I'm glad you're a believer! Thank you for sharing. At different churches no one shared and I always felt very lonely. Christians aren't very friendly at churches.

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
-- Gandhi
 
I would say eternity is within God and everything in time is without so God decreed this matter in such a manner and around such covenantal laws so as to [be able, not that He is in anyway unable,] to reconcile the image (saved and sanctified humanity), which is outside (eternity) to Himself (The Eternal) and in doing so, revealed the Everlasting Glory of His nature to all of creation and gathered a peculiar people to Himself made in His image. (Now glorified)

From and to.

Just thinking out loud about your thinking here. Don't you just love rattling around a few thoughts? 🤔

Feel free to improve upon, consider.
Ah now! You're getting pretty deep, there. You may cause @fastfredy0 to start objecting!
 
Our churches may be friendlier in the south. I remember going to a Missionary(denomination) Church here in the midwest; there were no greeters and not one person said "Hi." It was not a mega church. I understand cultural differences a little, but suggest that Christians have discussions about greeing visitors or inviting new families to dinner. Cults like to "love bomb" newcomers.
 
Our churches may be friendlier in the south. I remember going to a Missionary(denomination) Church here in the midwest; there were no greeters and not one person said "Hi." It was not a mega church. I understand cultural differences a little, but suggest that Christians have discussions about greeing visitors or inviting new families to dinner. Cults like to "love bomb" newcomers.
My church, a Reformed Baptist, has greeters that hug everybody. I'm just glad they don't also welcome them officially from the pulpit, make them stand up and be acknowledged. I also don't like a designated 3 minute fellowship time to greet one another. Makes me feel like it's false. (But then, I also hate having the staff at a restaurant sing happy birthday to someone they don't even know—me.)
 
I guess I just keep struggling over the lost who weren't murderers or physically abusive. But I like John 6:39.

Father, I pray you touch @Rescued One and give her peace and comfort in your love, I pray this in Jesus Name, Amen.


Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father but through me"

This is very very specific.

Something else Jesus said was that we have to be willing to hate mother, father, daughter, son, etc for His sake. We always see this as something emotional, but it's not, it's positional where God is our first and foremost care and concern, even if that means our positional relationship with them changes drastically.

Hate and love with God can be seen not as emotional states, but as positional, covenantal states. When we are inside the covenant relationship we are said to be loved by God, tended, cared for etc, and outside the covenant relationship with God they are said to be hated by God. This idea of love and hate is a position, a state of being inside or outside of God's covenantal relationship with His people.

We who are within God's covenantal relationship and are called His people want everyone we love to know God the way we know have come to know God here inside this relationship with Him but it's not likely to occur that everyone we love will be joining us.

In fact, we might not even know anyone else inside the covenant from our lives - and we have to be willing, not just able but willingly giving our loved ones into hands far more capable than we - those of God.

No matter how we slice it, whether we decide ohhhh it's all free will and God's this emotional creature that created us to worship his own image - or whether we decide that God did in fact declare the ends from the beginnings as the Alpha and the Omega and everything in between including ways and means and even the who without regard to person - we have to decide whether we are going to be willing to hate our own people, even those we love the most, to know Him more deeply, to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

And for those loved ones living and dead, that can mean not being in the same covenantal position as them before God for all eternity.

We really don't have a choice honestly but to trust God, as a God who is God will do God things and we can't control a God, but we do have a decision on whether we think Gods special revelation of Himself is an entity we want to be in a relationship with.

As we learn and study and grow and trust God, I do believe we see an utterly amazing God, one I am certain is of exceedingly great worth.

So... Do you give your loved ones into the hand of a Holy God and worship Him for His Being knowing that both His Justice and His Mercy brings Him Glory (shows His Holiness), or do you walk away because you can't have a God "that would" whatever you declare He "should not" do, when perhaps you're just not fully grasping everything of His Nature yet? (As if we ever could!).

Do you say to God I will give you everything of me because you alone are worthy?

We are being called to love one thing, that is God, first and foremost above every other thing. It necessarily involves hating all that God does not love, positionally.

Abraham said yes. Paul said yes. Jesus Christ said yes.

We have our own yes or no to give in response to our own call. Will we follow Jesus, or no.
 
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Quotes from Calvin read like the familiar sections of these confessions. Take, for example, this one, a definition of predestination.“Predestination we call the eternal decree of God by which He has determined in himself what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not at all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some, and eternal damnation for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death.” (Inst. of Chr. Relig., Allen Ed., III, XXI,V). This certainly is not infra language. Nor is this: “By an eternal and immutable counsel, God has once for all determined, both whom He would admit to salvation, and whom He would condemn to destruction. We affirm that this counsel, as far as concerns the elect, is founded on His gratuitous mercy, totally irrespective of human merit, but that to those whom He devotes to condemnation, the gate of life is closed by a just and irreprehensible, but incomprehensible judgment.” (ibid., VII). Then in another place, he says, “Now with respect to the reprobate . . . as Jacob, without any merit yet acquired by good works, is made an object of grace, so Esau, while yet unpolluted by any crime, is accounted an object of hatred. If we turn our attention to works, we insult the apostle . .. he saw none . . . because he expressly asserts the one to have been elected and the other rejected while they had not done any good or evil, in order to prove the foundation of divine predestination not to be in works
 
This might not be the same thing, but years ago at work I asked this one person if he was a Christian. He said "yes, I was baptized as a baby."
It seems most Roman Catholics think like this. They can be in the Mafia and killing people and think they are okay as long as they go to confession and say their hail Mary's.
The jews prety much did the same. its sad we see a repeat in NT times of things we say in OT times

its almost like Satan found a weak spot.. and takes advantage of it (religion)
 
No one has faith unless God gives it to him. God NEVER gives anyone dead faith; that is absurd!
sadly. Many have death faith. Because they have not repented. being hearers only and not doers. yet thinking their faith saved them (james 2)
 
If God knows the future and doesn't save them, He's either helpless or uncaring.
or maybe God does not want to force people to receive him. He wants to show his love no matter what people do.

He will be glorified when he casts out those who reject him, and glorified when he brings in those who receive him
 
God does not love (volition to favor) those He does not save. He cares that His justice is applied to everyone without exception. (Cares: serious attention or consideration applied to doing something correctly or to avoid damage or risk.)
So God is perfect justice.

But when it comes to love he is selective?

this is what it appears your saying
John 6:39 And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that I should not lose any of all that He has given Me, but that I should give new life and raise [them all] up at the last day.
lets complete this passage

John 6 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

so in total.

1. All who see and believe, it is his will that they will have everlasting life. and he will raise him up on the last day
2. It is his will. that he should not lose any, but that he should give them life (eternal life) and again, they will be raised.

they both go together.

God did not not love those who will reject him, he just will not give them life. (john 3, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already)
 
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