How many verses are required to prove a false doctrine?

[donadams]

If I may, "the truth of the gospel (good news)" IS the Five Solas.

There are many "gospels" (good news) in the Bible. They range from barren Elizabeth and Hannah being told the good news (gospel) they would bear a child are two examples.
The good news (gospel) God was to deliver His people from their bondage in Egypt is another. The Scripture itself is gospel (good news) to the people of Israel.

"Contending for the faith" is related to correct doctrine and the belief in it.

I provided multiple verses that oppose and contradict the five solas suppose to show how they actually support the solas? Or find some that do so?
Thanks

 

[CrowCross]

The five solas contradict the “truth of the gospel”!

How's that?

1. Sola scriptura: “Scripture alone”....Bible alone as the source of authority for Christians. What else would there be? Some Pope? Over the years Popes have disagreed and contradicted each other many times. This means we can rule the Pope out...so, what source other than the bible would have authority? The Book of Mormon? The Koran?

2. Sola fide: “faith alone” Salvation as a free gift. Did you have to purchase your free gift? Earn your free gift?

3. Sola gratia: “grace alone” Grace as the reason for our salvation...is there any other reason??

4. Solo Christo: “Christ alone”....isn't salvation “through Christ alone”??? Did someone else die on the cross?

5. Soli Deo gloria: “to the glory of God alone”...Do you do "good things" to please church leaders or God?

 

[CrowCross]

I provided multiple verses that oppose and contradict the five solas suppose to show how they actually support the solas? Or find some that do so?
Thanks

Cut and pasting verses means nothing. If you cut and paste a verse you should be able to provide adequate commentary for the reason as to why you used it.

 

[donadams]

Matt 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

How does “faith alone” qualify?
How does it bring fruits of repentance?

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Cut and pasting verses means nothing. If you cut and paste a verse you should be able to provide adequate commentary for the reason as to why you used it.

I paste from my extensive notes, is that a sin?

Ok 1 cor 13:2 even all faith without charity avails nothing, so faith alone also avails nothing!

Phil 1:29 not called to faith alone!

Thanks

 

[donadams]

How's that?

1. Sola scriptura: “Scripture alone”....Bible alone as the source of authority for Christians. What else would there be? Some Pope? Over the years Popes have disagreed and contradicted each other many times. This means we can rule the Pope out...so, what source other than the bible would have authority? The Book of Mormon? The Koran?

2. Sola fide: “faith alone” Salvation as a free gift. Did you have to purchase your free gift? Earn your free gift?

3. Sola gratia: “grace alone” Grace as the reason for our salvation...is there any other reason??

4. Solo Christo: “Christ alone”....isn't salvation “through Christ alone”??? Did someone else die on the cross?

5. Soli Deo gloria: “to the glory of God alone”...Do you do "good things" to please church leaders or God?

Now add scripture to back it up!

Read obviously did not read the verses in posted!

Thanks

 

[makesends]

“Faith alone”!

How many verses are required to prove a false doctrine?

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
Col 1:24 suffering for Christ
Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
James 2:24 faith & works
2 pet 1:5 add to faith
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13
Faith, Hope, & Charity!

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Never “faith alone”!

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by the apostolic church!

Christ never revealed and the church never taught the doctrine of “faith alone”!

The holy apostolic church has condemned the doctrine of “faith alone”!

“Faith Alone” is a false doctrine!

In electrical 'ladder logic' terminology, any series-circuit component missing will break the circuit, and it will not work. If the current runs through a resistor, a switch, a choke, etc., each one of those alone is necessary, or the current will not flow.

 

[ChristB4us]

“Faith alone”!

How many verses are required to prove a false doctrine?

If you ever wonder why the "lost books" of the Bible were not considered scripture is because those lost books ran against the accepted scripture.

When you have different bible versions and they are not all saying the same thing, one can suspect something is lost in translation from the Greek into English.

And yet the oldest manuscript being the supposed most reliable manuscript is being promoted for those documents originating from Alexandria but Alexandria was noted for poetic licensing and Gnosticism whereas the Textus Receptus's origin were of the documents of Antioch where the disciples studied the scripture for a whole year.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

The problem with the oldest manuscripts being the best manuscripts is why weren't they worn out as found in these Codexis in these monasteries? Gnosticism is something I suspect are the ones that have gone astray using tongues for private use and so believing they were being self edified is why they abandoned the practice of reading from the written scripture. Are not monks known for praying and fasting? And yet Gnosticism was thriving among them.

One witness testified at the Toronto's Blessings supernatural phenomenon that they were saying that they do not need the Word of God any more. All they needed was the Spirit. ~~~ So I can understand how Gnosticism adopted that supernatural phenomenon in place of the written scripture. Indeed, they can change just enough verses within the accepted scripture so as to feel free to abandon them for that tongue for private use. It is no mystery to me what Gnosticism is known as secret or hidden knowledge as tongues without interpretation are.

So here we are with many Bible versions not all saying the same thing. Discernment from the Lord is needed as the Father warned us.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Same goes for His disciples' sayings.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

This is why I rely on the KJV, but again, there has been problems with translating everything from the Greek into English as the message is not fully conveyed. There is even a suspicion that the view of tongues for private use may have altered the message in translating into English in regards to 1 Corinthians 14:2 & 28 even in the KJV.

So can we find the truth in His words? with His help we can by remembering that scripture cannot go against scripture in order to find the truth in His words.

So while we are leaning on Jesus for wisdom & discernment, we also need His help to rightly divide the word of truth as the accepted scripture is to be applied since the truth in one part of scripture cannot go against the truths in other parts of scriptures.

A good example is below:

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Since those that believe are baptized with the Holy Ghost and thus born again of the Spirit, readers should not be applying this verse towards water baptism at all since it specified that those who do not believe shall be damned.

Then you have Paul testifying how water baptism plays no part in anyone's salvation when it is the believing the preaching of the cross is how we are saved because God is pleased to save those that believe.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Water baptism is an ordinance for saved believers at conversion to follow as an initial step in being His disciples. However, they can still trust Jesus Christ to be their Good Shepherd & Friend to help them to follow Him as His disciples barring the opportunity to be water baptized at conversion. Water baptism does not bar Jesus Christ from saving anyone and water baptism in being His disciple does not bar Jesus Christ from helping anyone to follow Him.

It serves as a public witness at conversion, but neither one is necessary for salvation nor for becoming His disciple, but believing Jesus Christ is.

Jn 3:5 water & the spirit

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I grant you that this has been misapplied the most for water baptism but Jesus did answer on how one is born again of the Spirit & when.

Two things you can take away from this verse above;

One; the old way was by natural birth in the Israelis bloodlines when Jesus referred to in verse 5 if you note, He did not say born again, but in giving reference to the old way of being born into the Kingdom of God as a Jew. That was why He was deferring away from that in verse 5 for the beginning art of verse 6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh... He is deferring from being born of the Jewish bloodlines.

So I believe Jesus was referring to how one usually is born into the kingdom of Israel for how it will be different for how one is born again into the kingdom of God.

Two: If water baptism was the means for being born again of the Spirit then everybody would know when one was born again of the Spirit, but verse 8 testifies a big fat no. This is why Nicodemus had asked this question below.

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So this event of being born again of the Spirit was to occur after His ascension which is after His crucifixion, for whenever anyone believes in Jesus Christ. No water baptism is mentioned for this born again of the spirit was to come about by but only believing in Jesus Christ is.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Through Jesus Christ is how we are saved; not through water baptism and Jesus Christ as if Jesus Christ is unable to save all those that call upon Him if they should be dying in a desert. His hand is not shortened to save anyone just because water is not around.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Compare that with your earlier reference now:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So when you don't apply water baptism but the baptism of the Holy Spirit to Mark 16:16; hence born again of the Spirit when you believe in Jesus Christ, then you can see how the scriptures align with each other in truth that believing in Him is how we are saved.

 

[donadams]

Why did Christ establish the church?

 

[jeremiah1five]

I provided multiple verses that oppose and contradict the five solas suppose to show how they actually support the solas? Or find some that do so?
Thanks

Are those verses on this thread? If so I would prefer to address those Scriptures you deem contradict the Five Solas, and that is interesting because the title of this thread asks how many verses are required to prove a false doctrine and since there is no contradiction in the Word of God between Scriptures then the conclusion is: one of us is wrong with regard to our doctrinal understanding of those Scriptures we used to support out beliefs.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why did Christ establish the church?

The corporate Church came into being with the "calling out" of the children of Israel from Egypt. They were called the "great congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle, and this is the definition and establishment of Israel as the Church and only Church of God where His covenant is concerned.
God "calls out" individuals to Himself also.

 

[donadams]

Are those verses on this thread? If so I would prefer to address those Scriptures you deem contradict the Five Solas, and that is interesting because the title of this thread asks how many verses are required to prove a false doctrine and since there is no contradiction in the Word of God between Scriptures then the conclusion is: one of us is wrong with regard to our doctrinal understanding of those Scriptures we used to support out beliefs.

They are here

 

[donadams]

The corporate Church came into being with the "calling out" of the children of Israel from Egypt. They were called the "great congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle, and this is the definition and establishment of Israel as the Church and only Church of God where His covenant is concerned.
God "calls out" individuals to Himself also.

New covenant church

 

[CrowCross]

I paste from my extensive notes, is that a sin?

Ok 1 cor 13:2 even all faith without charity avails nothing, so faith alone also avails nothing!

Phil 1:29 not called to faith alone!

Thanks

So what?

We all know if you do something to "impress" God...and have no love in it, Gods not impressed...........or do you think He is?

 

[CrowCross]

Now add scripture to back it up!

Read obviously did not read the verses in posted!

Thanks

All scripture is inspired by God.....Do you need the chapter and verse?

 

[Soyeong]

Please explain your understanding of sola scriptura

From the wiki:

"Sola scriptura (Latin for 'by scripture alone') is a Christian theological doctrine held by most Protestant Christian denominations, in particular the Lutheran and Reformedtraditions,[1] that posits the Bible as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice.[1] The Catholic Churchconsiders it heterodox and generally the Orthodox churchesconsider it to be contrary to the phronema of the Church."

So it is not the position that Scripture is the only authority, but that it is the only infallible source of authority. It is the position that we can accept the authority of other people within our community, but if there is ever a disagreement between what Scripture says and what someone says, then we should side with what Scripture says. For example, in Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true instead of accepting what he said based on his authority.

Can you accomplish being born again by yourself?

Thanks

Someone that we accomplish by ourselves does not involve following the instructions of anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that obediently relying on God's instructions for the way to be born again is something that we can do by ourselves.

 

[Soyeong]

The law referred to is the Jewish law. Paul was appealing to gentiles, especially the men who wouldn't need to be circumcised.

There is a difference in proclaiming "Oh Lord I believe" and living your faith, i.e. imitating Christ by loving your neighbor.

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” James 2:26

Paul emphasized “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” 1 Cor. He viewed as inherent in his own growth as a disciple the responsibility to help others grow. So he invited other Christians to follow him as he followed Christ.

Christ expressed his love for his neighbor through his obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is also how we are to love our neighbor, and the way that we are to imitate Paul as he imitated Christ.

While the only way to become righteous is by faith apart from being required to have first obeyed the Mosaic Law in order to earn our righteousness, becoming righteous through faith means becoming someone who practices righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law through faith, and int is contradictory to become righteous apart from someone who practices righteousness in obedience to it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

New covenant church

Israel.

 

[donadams]

Alone apart from what?

In Romans 3:28-31, we are justified by faith apart from works of the law, so there is a sense that we are justified by faith alone insofar as there are no works that we are required to have done first in order to earn our justification as a wage, but there is also the sense that we are not justified by faith alone insofar as the faith by which we are justified does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it.

In other words, when someone does does a good work, such as charity, then the significance of their action is not that it is part of what they are required to do first in order to earn their justification, but that their action is expressing their faith and it is by that faith that they are justified. There is a significant difference between these two positions:

1.) Our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law.

2.) Our justification requires us to have first obeyed God's law in order to earn it as a wage.

There are many verses like Romans 2:13 that support #1, many verses like Romana 4:1-5 that deny #2, and the problem is that people often mistake someone claiming #1 as claiming #2 and will argue against #1 by citing verses that only deny #2.

Are we as Christians call by God to “Faith alone”?
Thanks

 

[donadams]

So what?

We all know if you do something to "impress" God...and have no love in it, Gods not impressed...........or do you think He is?

Can a person be saved without loving God?

Thanks