7 Characteristics of false Teachers

[Viking123]

Why do you talk about grace if there is not a single line in the bible about it?

I didn't say that. I said there is a whole bible not just 1 line to count on.

 

[Viking123]

Do you believe that God is not gracious?

To all who obey. He has forewarned the rest. That is gracious.

 

[Viking123]

That is not in the op.

The attempted appeal to "altered translations" is also hugely problematic because no translation of the original languages into English is perfect. Not the KJV and definitely not the NWT (as has already been demonstrated). Post #124 makes JWism false! Most of us here already know that but we don't expect a JW to undermine his own position (calling into doubt the prospect of having anything veracious to contribute concerning the characteristics of false teachers. It's also mocking. I tried to help by encouraging an affirmation of what is stated in the op but the choice was made to post something not in the op. The problems are made worse by the repeated neglect of salient content in others' posts as they highlight the problems. Perhaps this is another item to add to the list of characteristics of false teachers .

100% fact-God willed his personal name in his real bible over 7000 spots. Wicked men who had no right removed it by satans will to mislead. ALL using the altered translations are being mislead.

 

[David Lamb]

To all who obey. He has forewarned the rest. That is gracious.

But grace is undeserved favour. Paul writes in Ephesians 2:

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Eph 2:1-9 NKJV)

God doesn't wait for a sinner to become good/obedient before extending His grace and love to them:

“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Ro 5:8 NKJV)

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Viking123,

God translated the Nwt. He corrected his bible because every other translation in use was altered.

I was surprised at this statement, that you claim that the NWT is a direct translation from God, and He corrected "His Bible". Does this represent the idea that every time the NWT differs from say the KJV, then the NWT is correct and the KJV wrong. One difference I noted over 60 years ago, soon after I purchased a green NWT, was the difference between the NWT and the KJV in the following:
Genesis 3:1 (NWT online): Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?”

Genesis 3:1 (KJV): 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

What I would like to draw to your attention is the NWT which has "the most cautious" and the KJV has "more subtil". Do you claim that the KJV is erroneous here, and the NWT is correct? The two words "cautious" and "subtil" seem to have a different meaning and range of meaning in English.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Carbon]

I didn't say that. I said there is a whole bible not just 1 line to count on.

Oh, I agree with that. The whole bible teaches about its central figure, Jesus Christ, our Lord and God.

 

[Viking123]

But grace is undeserved favour. Paul writes in Ephesians 2:

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Eph 2:1-9 NKJV)

God doesn't wait for a sinner to become good/obedient before extending His grace and love to them:

“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Ro 5:8 NKJV)

And all who do not obey Jesus remain in Gods wrath= at judgement.

 

[Viking123]

Greetings again Viking123,

I was surprised at this statement, that you claim that the NWT is a direct translation from God, and He corrected "His Bible". Does this represent the idea that every time the NWT differs from say the KJV, then the NWT is correct and the KJV wrong. One difference I noted over 60 years ago, soon after I purchased a green NWT, was the difference between the NWT and the KJV in the following:
Genesis 3:1 (NWT online): Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?”

Genesis 3:1 (KJV): 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

What I would like to draw to your attention is the NWT which has "the most cautious" and the KJV has "more subtil". Do you claim that the KJV is erroneous here, and the NWT is correct? The two words "cautious" and "subtil" seem to have a different meaning and range of meaning in English.

Kind regards
Trevor

Both mean the same basically. The NWT simplified meaning making it easier to understand.

 

[Viking123]

Oh, I agree with that. The whole bible teaches about its central figure, Jesus Christ, our Lord and God.

The real Jesus points all to his Father.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Viking123,

Both mean the same basically. The NWT simplified meaning making it easier to understand.

I consider that the two words have a different range of meaning, and from a doctrinal point of view the NWT obscures the true meaning in Genesis 3:1, but goes close in 2 Corinthians 11:3:

Cautious: careful about avoiding danger or risk
Subtle: having or involving keen perception or insight

2 Corinthians 11:3 (NWT online) But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[David Lamb]

And all who do not obey Jesus remain in Gods wrath= at judgement.

My point was that God does not wait for a sinner to obey Jesus before he extends His grace to that sinner.

 

[David Lamb]

Both mean the same basically. The NWT simplified meaning making it easier to understand.

"Subtll" or in modern spelling, "subtle" does certainly not mean the same as "cautious." "Subtle" means "crafty," "cunning." My bible Hebrew lexicon says the word translated "subtil" means: subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible. "Cautious" on the other hand means "careful".

 

[Viking123]

Greetings again Viking123,

I consider that the two words have a different range of meaning, and from a doctrinal point of view the NWT obscures the true meaning in Genesis 3:1, but goes close in 2 Corinthians 11:3:

Cautious: careful about avoiding danger or risk
Subtle: having or involving keen perception or insight

2 Corinthians 11:3 (NWT online) But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

Is that what the Hebrew word meaning translates?

 

[Viking123]

"Subtll" or in modern spelling, "subtle" does certainly not mean the same as "cautious." "Subtle" means "crafty," "cunning." My bible Hebrew lexicon says the word translated "subtil" means: subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible. "Cautious" on the other hand means "careful".

they basically mean the same.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Viking123,

they basically mean the same.

I questioned your original statement that the NWT almost infallibly corrects the KJV. I suggested that the English words subtle and cautious have a different meaning and range of meaning, and thus they do NOT "basically mean the same". What I am suggesting that your original statement and your reaction in defending the NWT on this particular translation of Genesis 3:1 is an indication of the almost absolute reverence and dependence of the JWs upon the NWT. Are JWs discouraged from examining and comparing other translations, and seeking the true meaning of a verse or word?

Is that what the Hebrew word meaning translates?

Are you asking this to avoid a careful look at the NWT by comparison with the KJV here, or are you simply trying to obscure the discussion? For my part I am content that the KJV "subtil (subtle)" is correct and the NWT is incorrect. If I was attempting to examine the meaning of Genesis 3:1 my usual method would be to compare other translations and then the meaning of the Hebrew word translated "subtil" (KJV) or "crafty" in most other translations by using Bible Word Dictionaries and Lexicons. My conclusion using this process is that I consider that "subtle" or "crafty" is the correct translation and the NWT "cautious" is erroneous. Even the NWT Study Bible gives an alternative rendition "crafty" in the margin.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[David Lamb]

they basically mean the same.

Basically or any other way, they do not mean the same. The Hebrew word translated "subtil" or "cunning" in English in Genesis 3:1 means:
1) subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible
1a) crafty
Hebrew has a completely different word for "careful" used for instance in this verse:

“But God had come to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said to him, "Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad."” (Ge 31:24 NKJV)

Certainly the English word "careful" means something different to the English word subtle. When someone says, "Be careful, the pan is hot!" they don't mean that the person they are talking to must use cunning or craftiness.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Matthew 24:24 "“For false christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Taking this verse out of its context can the elect be decieved?

I have always thought if a Christian is under false teaching they will come out from it.

If I am correct, that would mean that those who profess to be Christians and stay under and defend false teaching are not truly regenerated.

Is my understanding flawed, can regenerated people be deceived?

Hi. The passages you're concerned about aren't in the least concerning. I'll quote from a Systematic Theology for you so you can understand in the fullness.

"When Peter speaks of false teachers who bring destructive heresies "even denying the Master who bought them" (2 Peter 2:1) It is unclear whether the word "Master" (Gk despotes) refers to Christ (as in Jude 4) or to God the Father (as in Luke 2:29; Acts 1:24; Rev. 6:10) in either case the Old Testament allusion is probably to Deuteronomy 32:6 where Moses says to the rebellious people who have turned away from God "Is not he your Father who has bought you?' (authors translation) Peter is drawing an analogy between the past false prophets that arose among the Jews and those who will be false teachers within the churches to which he writes: "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them" (2 Peter 2:1)

In line with this clear reference to false prophets in the Old Testament Peter also alludes to the fact that the rebellious Jews turned away from God who "bought them" out of Egypt in the exodus. From the time of the exodus onward any Jewish person would have considered himself or herself one who was "bought" by God in the exodus and therefore a person of God's own possession. In this sense, the false teachers arising among the people were denying God the Father to whom they rightfully belonged.

So the text means not that Christ had redeemed these false prophets, but simply that they were rebellious Jewish people (or church attenders in the same position as the rebellious Jews) who were rightfully owned by God because they had been brought out of the land of Egypt (or their forefathers had), but they were ungrateful to Him. Christ's specific redemptive work on the cross is not in view in this verse."

^^ from Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology pp 599 and pp600 Chapter 27 The Atonement

Christ will lose not one the Father gave into His hand, we can have confidence.

 

[Mr GLee]

Matthew 24:24 "“For false christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Taking this verse out of its context can the elect be decieved?

I have always thought if a Christian is under false teaching they will come out from it.

If I am correct, that would mean that those who profess to be Christians and stay under and defend false teaching are not truly regenerated.

Is my understanding flawed, can regenerated people be deceived?

Was Peter deceived?

Mathew 16 22-23Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men

Luke 22:57 And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.

John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.;Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?;This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.;And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

The Lord looks upon the heart which he softens with the living water of the word.

He knows who he sends as true apostles and false . Some will say I did wonderworks in His name that cast out the spirit of lies . He did not say his words preached did not cast out , but simply I did not send you.

Mathew7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

In that way the "Let there be" God is not served by human hands as a will.

He can and has demonstrated using a unredeemed unclean animal an Ass. . . that must be redeemed by a lamb clean animal an apostle to sent to stop the madness of the false apostle Baalam who was nor sent by God like those in Mathew 7. Hdi not know them

Numbers 22:28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

 

[Viking123]

Basically or any other way, they do not mean the same. The Hebrew word translated "subtil" or "cunning" in English in Genesis 3:1 means:
1) subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible
1a) crafty
Hebrew has a completely different word for "careful" used for instance in this verse:

“But God had come to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said to him, "Be careful that you speak to Jacob neither good nor bad."” (Ge 31:24 NKJV)

Certainly the English word "careful" means something different to the English word subtle. When someone says, "Be careful, the pan is hot!" they don't mean that the person they are talking to must use cunning or craftiness.

They mean basically the same=minor difference.
Here is a major flaw in your translations
Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise=error
truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise=correct

proof-Jesus was in Hades( grave) for 3 days he could not be in paradise the first day.
As well, the resurrection of the dead does not occur until the last day=Rev 20, it has not occurred yet.

 

[David Lamb]

They mean basically the same=minor difference.
Here is a major flaw in your translations
Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise=error
truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise=correct

proof-Jesus was in Hades( grave) for 3 days he could not be in paradise the first day.
As well, the resurrection of the dead does not occur until the last day=Rev 20, it has not occurred yet.

Bodily resurrection takes place in Revelation 20. The Christian's soul goes immediately on death to heaven. That's why Paul wrote:

“For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.” (Php 1:23 NKJV)

Not "....having a desire to depart, await the events of Revelation 20, and then be with Christ ....."