How many verses are required to prove a false doctrine?

[CrowCross]

Scripture is part of the tradition

The tradition is the revelation or word of God that is taught or communicated by Christ and the apostles

Do you have several examples?

 

[donadams]

2nd Tim 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

What scripture?

66 books in the Protestant cannon are fundamentalist Protestant tradition (English Bible society) and not “scripture alone”!

Old Testament cannon is Jewish tradition and not “scripture alone”!

Enoch gospel of Thomas are scripture are they included?

Dan 13 & 14?

Only the catholic cannon 73 complete books are of apostolic tradition with authority from christ

When did sola scriptura begin, or has always been the case?

Thanks

 

[donadams]

I'm in Jesus' womb???

The seed of Abraham
Spiritually in seed form

 

[donadams]

Mary was a virgin chosen by God to give birth to Jesus. She was blessed because of that. In fact Mary needed her own son to die on the cross for her sins.

What does scripture say about anything used in God’s service?
Read exodus about the ark etc even the utensils had to be pure gold and consecrated to God’s service alone!

Ark of the New Covenant!

Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months so if holiness befits God’s house would not Mary be holy also? Just like the Ark and the Tabernacle she was set apart and consecrated to the Lord., the holy dwelling of God.

Mary is the temple of God, God consecrated and dwelt in this temple for 9 months and it cannot be used for a ordinary purpose, and it is God who glorified his dwelling!

King david has love of Mary!

Psalm 26:8
Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.


Ex 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


2 Sam 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the Lord of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

Lk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;


2 Sam 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.

4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.

5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

2 Sam 6:16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord;

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


2 Sam 6:9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


2 Sam 6:11 And the ark of the Lord continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the Lord blessed Obededom, and all his household.

Lk 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.


2 Sam 6:12 And it was told king David, saying, The Lord hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied…


King David took the ark of the covenant up to the earthly Jerusalem! 2 Sam 6:10

King Jesus takes the ark of the new covenant up to the heavenly Jerusalem! Rev 12:1

 

[donadams]

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
And cannot be used for any common purpose!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure, holy, and only used for the service of God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.







Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!


Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?

Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!

No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

That’s impossible!

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!

 

[donadams]

Mary was a virgin chosen by God to give birth to Jesus. She was blessed because of that. In fact Mary needed her own son to die on the cross for her sins.

That’s a violation of scripture
And biblical principles

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Requiring the immaculate
conception of Mary, the Holy Ghost cannot over shadow and conceive the holy child in a sinner!

 

[donadams]

No.

Isa 22:21-22 father (pope means papa) with key of authority over the kingdom

Matt 16:16-19 Peter declared blessed, head of the church (on earth) key (signs) of jurisdictional authority

Matt 17:27 It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself.

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Acts 15:7 God chose Peter

Thanks

 

[prism]

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the purpose of the law is to lead us to Christ by teaching us how to know him, which is eternal life (John 17:3). The purpose of the law is not to lead us to Christ so that we can then reject what he taught and go back to living in sin.

In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-12, he contrasted a law that our faith upholds with a law that is not of faith, and in Romans 7:25-8:2, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death, so it is important to correctly identify which law Romans 7:4 is referring to us dying to in order to avoid dying to the wrong law. It would not make sense to think that we need to die to God's law for how to be unified in Christ and to bear fruit for Him in order to do that, but rather we would need to die to a law that was hindering us from doing that in order to be free to do that, namely the law of sin.

The only way to become righteous is by grace through faith. Becoming righteous through faith means becoming someone who practices righteousness through faith in obedience to God's law in the same way that become becoming courageous means becoming someone who practices courageousness.


Grace is a gift and gifts can't be earned, so grace is incompatible with works insofar as they are done to earn a wage, however, there are many other reasons for doing works that are in accordance with grace, which is why there are also many verses that connect grace and works. For example, in Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and the same with Exodus 33:13. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to do those works is part of the content of His gift of salvation.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to get at, you seem to be rambling from my perspective.

 

[prism]

I agree

I’m not defending any particular claimant but the papacy itself was instituted by Christ Isa22:21-22

I have my doubts about all claimants since Pius 12 and there have been imposters and anti-popes before

Just as Judas was an apostle does that nullify the apostles?

Isaiah 22:21-22 AMP
"And I will clothe him with your tunic [of distinction] And tie your sash securely around him. I will entrust him with your authority; He will become a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. [22] "Then I will set on his shoulder the key of the house of David; When he opens no one will shut, When he shuts no one will open.

I don't see any papacy in that passage, just some obscure reference to keys which is a direct reference to Christ and David, (Rev 3:7) which Rome has assumed unlawfully upon herself..

"There is no biblical or historical evidence for the claims of the Roman Catholic church that Peter was the first pope. In fact there is no evidence that there even was a pope in the first century" -Wiki

 

[donadams]

Do you have several examples?

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!

Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!

Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Acts 17:3

(Only a few examples cos almost every page of the New Testament supports verbal teaching of christ or the apostles)

Verses supporting Sacred tradition in verbal form:

Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Acts 15:7
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15

Word of God preached verbally not sola scriptura:

Matt 28:19
Acts 17:13

Verbal Revelation
Gen 15:1
Ex 3:4
Ex3:14
Matt 16:16
Lk 3:2

 

[donadams]

Isaiah 22:21-22 AMP
"And I will clothe him with your tunic [of distinction] And tie your sash securely around him. I will entrust him with your authority; He will become a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. [22] "Then I will set on his shoulder the key of the house of David; When he opens no one will shut, When he shuts no one will open.

I don't see any papacy in that passage, just some obscure reference to keys which is a direct reference to Christ and David, (Rev 3:7) which Rome has assumed unlawfully upon herself..

"There is no biblical or historical evidence for the claims of the Roman Catholic church that Peter was the first pope. In fact there is no evidence that there even was a pope in the first century" -Wiki

Matt 16:18-19 who has the keys of the kingdom?

Isa 22:21-22 father (pope means papa) with key of authority over the kingdom

Matt 16:16-19 Peter declared blessed, head of the church (on earth) key (signs) of jurisdictional authority

Matt 17:27 It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself.

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Acts 15:7 God chose Peter

 

[prism]

Matt 16:18-19 who has the keys of the kingdom?

All true believers..

John 20:22-23 KJV
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: [23] Whose soever sins ye (2nd person plural) remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye (2nd person plural) retain, they are retained.Isa 22:21-22.

papa) with key of authority over the kingdom

out of context. It's context is David/Jesus

Matt 16:16-19 Peter declared blessed, head of the church (on earth) key (signs) of jurisdictional authority

Oops, just four verses later, Peter rebuked for a satanic idea.

Matthew 16:23 KJV
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Matt 17:27 It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself.

As shown above, it is Jesus Christ who associated Peter with satan.

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Peter still floundering in Galatians 2..

Galatians 2:11-14 KJV
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. [12] For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. [13] And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. [14] But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Acts 15:7 God chose Peter

Peter was one pillar amongst many..

Galatians 2:9 KJV
And when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

 

[donadams]

So we don’t enter the kingdom by being born again?

Apostles possess the kingdom and administer it. Lk 22:29

Christ transmitted life the apostles
Jn 20:21-23 they transmit life to us, by the graces merited by Christ in the treasury of the apostolic church.

Christ said so: Matt 16:16-19 Matt 28:19-20 Lk 22:29 Jn 29:21-23

 

[donadams]

Isaiah 22:21-22 AMP
"And I will clothe him with your tunic [of distinction] And tie your sash securely around him. I will entrust him with your authority; He will become a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. [22] "Then I will set on his shoulder the key of the house of David; When he opens no one will shut, When he shuts no one will open.

I don't see any papacy in that passage, just some obscure reference to keys which is a direct reference to Christ and David, (Rev 3:7) which Rome has assumed unlawfully upon herself..

"There is no biblical or historical evidence for the claims of the Roman Catholic church that Peter was the first pope. In fact there is no evidence that there even was a pope in the first century" -Wiki

If your looking for the word papacy you won’t find it, or the word trinity, or words that say Jesus Christ is our redeemer!

That’s one problem with scripture alone, it’s not a list of doctrine, not a creed, or dogma, or decree of a council.

Make him father
Pope means papa in Italian
Give the key of the kingdom see Matt 16:16-19

Christ is king but no king administers his own kingdom, they appoint a prime minister and other ministers Lk 22:29

Joseph was the prime minister in Egypt and his brother either gave obeisance obedience or they starved

 

[donadams]

All true believers..

John 20:22-23 KJV
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: [23] Whose soever sins ye (2nd person plural) remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye (2nd person plural) retain, they are retained.Isa 22:21-22.

out of context. It's context is David/Jesus

Oops, just four verses later, Peter rebuked for a satanic idea.

Matthew 16:23 KJV
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

As shown above, it is Jesus Christ who associated Peter with satan.

Peter still floundering in Galatians 2..

Galatians 2:11-14 KJV
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. [12] For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. [13] And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. [14] But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Peter was one pillar amongst many..

Galatians 2:9 KJV
And when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Satan was using Peter, and they had not yet received the power at Pentecost

 

[Ghada]

The holy apostolic church has condemned the doctrine of “faith alone”!

“Faith Alone” is a false doctrine!

Amen! Say it brother!

Sometimes it only takes one verse to prove the doctrine of Christ. Such as the Word was God. That forbids any heresy that the Word was not God, or was a god.

However, it always only takes one verse to prove false doctrine against Christ. Such as Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. That forbids any heresy of being anything by faith alone, much less saved and justified by God.

 

[Mr GLee]

Amen! Say it brother!

Sometimes it only takes one verse to prove the doctrine of Christ. Such as the Word was God. That forbids any heresy that the Word was not God, or was a god.

However, it always only takes one verse to prove false doctrine against Christ. Such as Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. That forbids any heresy of being anything by faith alone, much less saved and justified by God.

The word are words from God . it's what he does speak . . Let there be Light


The faith of Christ's labor of love is never alone. Faith the power of our unseen Holy God "Let there be"as a good testimony "it was good" .


Two things working. . one faithfull work

"Faith alone" no it is was not good" Some say God does not need faith (power to move ) dying creatures

Remember he the storeroom of power or our new faith . He gives us little faith .calling us of little faith. Just enough to please Him .Peter said to the "little faith" Christ's labor of love . . it must increase in us . We having no faith must decrease

Yoked with Him our daily burden can be lighter

Matthew 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?(understanding)

Matthew 8:26And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? (understanding) Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith,(understanding)wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 16:8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, (understanding) why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

Luke 12:28If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith (understanding)?

 

[donadams]

Ephesians 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Not by scripture alone!

Sacred Scripture yes!
Sacred Scripture alone no!

 

[Ghada]

Alone apart from what?

From works.

Faith without works is dead, being alone.

God does not contradict Himself by preaching any faith alone apart from works.

God only excludes works of man's own righteousness to justify himself.

God only limits the works we are justified by, to those things we do through the faith of Jesus from a pure heart.

Without faith it is impossible to please God, and without works done by the faith of Jesus, it is impossible to be justified by God.

1.) Our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law.

2.) Our justification requires us to have first obeyed God's law in order to earn it as a wage.

I.e. doing works of the law without the faith of Jesus, does not justify any one with God.

God preaches against one's inward faith alone without works, and outward works alone without His faith.

 

[Mr GLee]

I looked up Gal 2:5...didn't see a connection. Was that a typo?
Phil 1:17 was about "distress of my chains."

Just what are you trying to say Don?

It would seem to represent the doctrine of man a successions of dying what they call apostles . Remember there are two kinds .False and True Again as always Satan would have mankind believe all one in the same .His kind, the kind seen, the temporal dying destroying the invisible head as the faithful Creator making his living word without effect or understanding

Messengers Sent with the message. The true gospel not after any dying man. God will not share his glory with fallen dying mankind .By Grace as a living hope we await of new incorruptible bodies

Gal 2 : 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Truth of the gospel will continue. Its not the truth of dying mankind the apostles (sent messenger with no other meaning added). Not highly venerable dying ones as a legion of worker with familiar spirit gods that some called patron saints .

The same appears below in defense of the gospel the key that unlocks the gates of hell and sufferings . Not in defense of dying mankind apostles. . Christ is our defense The father of lies . .the counterfeiter. Turing things upside down. . . . . inspired from earth as the oral tradition of dying fathers.

Phil 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel. (Again not in defense of the apostles)

The counterfeiter turning things upside down taking aay the understanding of the Potter I would hink e shaol d be care how we hear who we say we do . Agin e dfed thatwhich defends ud as it is writtn