Hebrews 6

[civic]

Personally, I don't think so. I believe it's pretty obvious. The language is too strong. IMO of course.

At one time I thought salvation could be lost, and I was in fear of it. As I studied into it, and heard other opinions and matched it up to scripture, I started thinking differently. Even though, it worried me for years. But as we agree scripture interprets scripture and is in perfect harmony. Seeing scripture on perseverance and learning we are held by God's power and learning more and more about Christ, I am confident that Christ will lose none that the Father has given him.

Of course, I still know believers who claim and swear Hebrews 6:4-6 are believers. And when I try to go over those verses to show them differently, it never starts well. Lots of people are afraid to be proven wrong.

I am used to being proven wrong, I cant tell you how many times I was proven wrong.

I think most young believers fear they can lose their salvation as I know I struggled with that my first couple of years.

 

[ReverendRV]

Hebrews 6:4-6? It's a Warning to the Saved not to leave the Faith. Christ will Lose None; but those who left us were never of us...

 

[Carbon]

Hebrews 6:4-6? It's a Warning to the Saved not to leave the Faith. Christ will Lose None; but those who left us were never of us...

Good way to put it.

 

[Eleanor]

Personally, I don't think so. I believe it's pretty obvious. The language is too strong. IMO of course.

At one time I thought salvation could be lost, and I was in fear of it. As I studied into it, and heard other opinions and matched it up to scripture, I started thinking differently. Even though, it worried me for years. But as we agree scripture interprets scripture and is in perfect harmony. Seeing scripture on perseverance and learning we are held by God's power and learning more and more about Christ, I am confident that Christ will lose none that the Father has given him.

Of course, I still know believers who claim and swear Hebrews 6:4-6 are believers. And when I try to go over those verses to show them differently, it never starts well. Lots of people are afraid to be proven wrong.

I am used to being proven wrong, I cant tell you how many times I was proven wrong.

Heb 6:4-6 is one of the four warnngs of falling away. The whole letter is about apostasy.

Heb :1-13, 5:11-6:12, 11:1-38, 12:14-28

 

[Arial]

deleted

Why the wow? I simply decided I didn't want to get involved in the conversation. Which is pretty much how I feel about all of it.

 

[Wordsmith]

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Will someone please explain how one can be a partaker of the Holy Ghost and not be saved? Not to mention "enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come".

 

[Arial]

Yep. I know who he is.

It would be good to steer clear of him.

Stay away from Hagin.

Agree. The very roots of Hagin's teachings are in the metaphysical religions, including Christian Science. He copied a great deal of his work almost verbatim from E.W. Kenyon who without apology gives credit to the metaphysical writers and religions. He published his first book in 1916. (He died in 1948) When called on this plagiarism Hagin simply said the Holy Spirit gave them the same revelations.

Kenyon wrote a book titled "The Wonderful Name of Jesus." In 1979 Hagin published one titled "The Name of Jesus" and announced that it was the word of God. The plagiarism of Kenyon's work is laid side by side in "A Different Gospel" by D.R. McConnell.

 

[Wordsmith]

I’ll even say they have an unclean spirit in them not the Spirit of God. They are charlatans. Wolves in sheeps clothing

It is well above one’s pay grade to judge a man’s soul even if one disagrees with their doctrine. I would be willing to bet that most everything you know about Hagin is second hand info. Just my opinion.

 

[civic]

Agree. The very roots of Hagin's teachings are in the metaphysical religions, including Christian Science. He copied a great deal of his work almost verbatim from E.W. Kenyon who without apology gives credit to the metaphysical writers and religions. He published his first book in 1916. (He died in 1948) When called on this plagiarism Hagin simply said the Holy Spirit gave them the same revelations.

Kenyon wrote a book titled "The Wonderful Name of Jesus." In 1979 Hagin published one titled "The Name of Jesus" and announced that it was the word of God. The plagiarism of Kenyon's work is laid side by side in "A Different Gospel" by D.R. McConnell.

a real wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

[civic]

It is well above one’s pay grade to judge a man’s soul even if one disagrees with their doctrine. I would be willing to bet that most everything you know about Hagin is second hand info. Just my opinion.

I can judge a man by his doctrines, especially the doctrines of demons and the spirit of antichrist. God calls us to discern truth from error/lies. Hagin and Copeland teach the very spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4:1-4 and 2 John 1:7. We are to beware of false prophets and expose them.

Matt 23:13
13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

Matt 23:15
15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

Matt 23:16
16 "Woe to you, blind guides!

Matt 23:23
23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

Matt 23:25-26
25 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

Matt 23:27-28
27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Matt 23:33-34
33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

John 8:41-45
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.


Acts 20:28-31
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.


2 Cor 6:14-17
Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,

"I will dwell in them and walk among them;

And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

17 "Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate," says the Lord.


2 Cor 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

1 Tim 1:3-4
As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies.

1 Tim 6:3-5
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves.


1 John 4:1-3
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.


2 John 7-11
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, that you might not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.


Jude 12-13
These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.


Jude 17-19
But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.


hope this helps !!!

 

[Wordsmith]

It would be good to steer clear of him.

Not a problem. What is your interpretation?From reading your posts it is clear you do not believe one can lose their salvation. That seems to be the headline. But I am unclear as to what the entire the passage does mean to you.

 

[Arial]

Why the wow? I simply decided I didn't want to get involved in the conversation. Which is pretty much how I feel about all of it.

@ReverendRV Maybe you thought I was not the one who deleted the post. Well new day, seven hours of uninterrupted sleep and a few cups of coffee later, I am invigorated again. Sometimes I feel Christian and Theology forums are the devil's playground (and they certainly can be) where the people of Christ are tempted and yield to the hidden desires of our flesh that are not fully sanctified. It can either expose them to ourselves and we can go to God for both His mercy and His further sanctification, or they can remain hidden from us though they are quite visible to us in others.

But as with all social media platforms, and especially for the very young, who can completely lose sight of reality and who they are, we need to recognize when it is creating a distance within our own personal communion with God. When the life and power has gone out of His word for us, and in its place we have only knowledge.

 

[civic]

@ReverendRV Maybe you thought I was not the one who deleted the post. Well new day, seven hours of uninterrupted sleep and a few cups of coffee later, I am invigorated again. Sometimes I feel Christian and Theology forums are the devil's playground (and they certainly can be) where the people of Christ are tempted and yield to the hidden desires of our flesh that are not fully sanctified. It can either expose them to ourselves and we can go to God for both His mercy and His further sanctification, or they can remain hidden from us though they are quite visible to us in others.

But as with all social media platforms, and especially for the very young, who can completely lose sight of reality and who they are, we need to recognize when it is creating a distance within our own personal communion with God. When the life and power has gone out of His word for us, and in its place we have only knowledge.

Well said !

Been there done that.

 

[Wordsmith]

I can judge a man by his doctrines, especially the doctrines of demons and the spirit of antichrist. God calls us to discern truth from error/lies. Hagin and Copeland teach the very spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4:1-4 and 2 John 1:7. We are to beware of false prophets and expose them.

Who is a pastor/ evangelist you think I should listen to?

 

[Arial]

But why would you consider Arminianism heresy?

My answer.
Because God is God. Creator of all things, sovereign over all His creation, and ruler over it.

Arminianism affirms all these things with their mouth while at the same time denying it in their doctrine. There is an element of wanting God to be anything but God.

Arminianism denies the radical nature of the fall of man, while also affirming it, though most Arminianists (or semi-Pelagian) have only the vaguest (God gave man free will and He will not violate his free will) implications of their free will beliefs.

As a result they produce many conundrums and contradictions within the scriptures. But it is hopeless (from a human standpoint) to get them to see any of this from the very word of God.

 

[civic]

My answer.
Because God is God. Creator of all things, sovereign over all His creation, and ruler over it.

Arminianism affirms all these things with their mouth while at the same time denying it in their doctrine. There is an element of wanting God to be anything but God.

Arminianism denies the radical nature of the fall of man, while also affirming it, though most Arminianists (or semi-Pelagian) have only the vaguest (God gave man free will and He will not violate his free will) implications of their free will beliefs.

As a result they produce many conundrums and contradictions within the scriptures. But it is hopeless (from a human standpoint) to get them to see any of this from the very word of God.

Not true Arminius held to mans complete and utter depravity and hopeless condition

 

[Arial]

Maybe.

What follows will be my take on things.

It does matter at least to some degree. Those passages in Heb 6 are very disturbing and frightening to the new believer and some never get over it, though they should. I believe one of the reasons is A'ism and it predominance in today's churches, that says being saved is one's choice. But that is a whole other aside.

I am a firmly believe that before any book of the Bible is begun, time should be spent in the prelude which in a good study Bible will give the relevant information. And each time that book is begun no matter how many years we have been a Christian. It puts and keeps what follows in the book in its proper perspective, rather than isolated interpretation. And the study notes should be read.

We don't know actually. Some say, Paul, some Clement., and a couple of others.

Right but whoever the author is, what is his background. We learn from the text that he did not come to faith through direct contact with Jesus. but through the apostles teaching. (2:3-4),and that he knew Timothy. (13:23) etc.

To show the supremacy of Christ. It is very Christcentrick.

Yes, but why did these particular Christian's need to hear these things? And Christian's they were, though like Paul and all the other writers and apostles, they were no doubt aware that there would be both true believers and those who were not among the recipients of the letter. We can surmise from the book itself that they were not in Israel and most likely were in Italy. We can surmise from the book itself and from historical documentation that they were undergoing persecution for their faith in Jesus and would be tempted to abandon the faith at least in practice for self preservation. The entire theological presentation from the OT showing the supremacy of Christ and the completion of His work, His sole and final position of mediator between God and man, was to strengthen their faith and encourage perseverance in it. In those verses being addressed in chapter 6, he author points out what drawing away from it would do.

Jewish Christians

Yes predominately, but also not necessarily exclusively. In any case the audience was familiar with the OT scriptures and the Jewish religious practices.

 

[Arial]

Not true Arminius held to mans complete and utter depravity and hopeless condition

Then how are they able to choose Christ of their own free will?

 

[Predestined]

It is well above one’s pay grade to judge a man’s soul even if one disagrees with their doctrine. I would be willing to bet that most everything you know about Hagin is second hand info. Just my opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree. My Bible tells me "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. Romans 14:4."

“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).

Apparently everyone thought Jim Jones was cool, But I've heard I Witnesses say people complained the Kool-Aid had a funny taste.

 

[Carbon]

Not a problem. What is your interpretation?From reading your posts it is clear you do not believe one can lose their salvation. That seems to be the headline. But I am unclear as to what the entire the passage does mean to you.

I’d love to share my understanding of the passage. Once I get home from work later.