Hebrews 6

[civic]

Actually, seen in the context of Heb 1-5, it is not debatable.

The writer is stating that if those Hebrew proselytes, to whom the letter is addressed, refuse to enter gospel salvation and apostasize (return to inferior Judaism and Moses), there will be no recovery for them, just as there was no recovery for the Israelites of the promised Canaan rest (from their enemies) when they refused to enter Canaan after having "tasted" it (Nu 14), God declaring, "They shall never enter my rest." (Heb 4:3).

Are those in Hebrews 6:4-8 born again ?

 

[Eleanor]

Are those in Hebrews 6:4-8 born again ?

No, or they would not be considering apostasy.

Those who saw the light upon receiving the letter would have been, they were just uninformed, which could have been all of them.

Their final decision regarding apostasy answers that question.

 

[Eleanor]

There was a time everyone considered Trinity a heresy until the Advent of the Son.

Was the Trinity ever presented before the advent of the Son?

I don't believe Scripture because everyone else does. I study under the anointing and when Scripture contradicts the party line I choose Scripture, pray, pray some more and then test my understanding through Scripture.
Why don't you just speak for yourself and stop trying to gather forces against me through conspiracy.
I'm a born again Christian of 46 years. This makes me your spiritual elder so show some respect for Christ in me.

 

[civic]

There was a time everyone considered Trinity a heresy until the Advent of the Son.
I don't believe Scripture because everyone else does. I study under the anointing and when Scripture contradicts the party line I choose Scripture, pray, pray some more and then test my understanding through Scripture.
Why don't you just speak for yourself and stop trying to gather forces against me through conspiracy.
I'm a born again Christian of 46 years. This makes me your spiritual elder so show some respect for Christ in me.

No the plural God is revealed in Genesis 1 on several places and throughout the Old Testament. You are arguing a strawman.

 

[Carbon]

Are you or anyone else here familiar with the late Kenneth Hagen?

Yep. I know who he is.

He is the only one I have heard teach on this in a way that made sense to me.

It would be good to steer clear of him.

The short version is this refers to a mature Christian with specific criteria assigned by the writer of Hebrews. Yes according to that teaching a person could lose their salvation. I know this will be controversial but so be it. I tend to agree with this approach to the doctrine of eternal security. I believe the truth is in between the 2 extremes on this issue. One extreme is that any sin will cause the loss of salvation the other extreme is no sin can possibly cause the loss of salvation. It is my belief the wording of Hebrews 6 can be taken no other way than it is possible to lose one’s salvation but that it is not a common or easy happening. In another post I will to try to relay in detail what Kenneth Hagin taught on this.

Stay away from Hagin.

 

[Carbon]

Hagen was a wof heretic

Yep

 

[Carbon]

A false teacher is a false teacher .

Yep. And Hagan was indeed.

He was the father of the WOF movement and Hinn and Copeland are his disciples who are also false teachers .

I’ll even say they have an unclean spirit in them not the Spirit of God. They are charlatans. Wolves in sheeps clothing

hope this helps!!!!

I hope it helps also.

I hope they consider it.

 

[Carbon]

Are those in Hebrews 6:4-8 born again ?

You mean verses 4-6?
No, they are not born again.

 

[Carbon]

I don’t consider Arminianism as orthodox (straight praise) but heretical.
If 50 million people say a wrong thing it’s still a wrong thing. — Al Einstein.

But why would you consider Arminianism heresy?

 

[Arial]

How is it that they never had it with the tasting of the heavenly gift etc. ?

And if they never had it.. what are they falling away from?

So here we go.. with someone who has partaken of the Holy Ghost.. tasted the powers to come.. etc.. and being called not saved.

Classic example of what calvinists do man!

(sigh)

Hebrews 6 ( and the entire book of Hebrews) but chapter 6 in particular is not talking about people returning to Judaism, or losing one's salvation, or being a backsliding Christian. Verse 4 begin with the word "For" (it is impossible---. It is followed in verse 9 with "Though we speak in this way----" So it is not talking about something that actually exists, but is a warning against it. This warning is being given because the recipients were undergoing severe persecution and were no doubt discouraged and confused(this is the historical information needed to interpret Hebrews), were new Christians and unsteady in their understanding.

 

[Arial]

deleted

 

[Carbon]

Would it help maybe to get at the meaning if we knew a few things before tackling one set of passages?

Maybe.

Who wrote Hebrews and when?

We don't know actually. Some say, Paul, some Clement., and a couple of others.

Why did he write it and why did he say all the things he says in the book?

To show the supremacy of Christ. It is very Christcentrick.

Who was he writing to? Where were they? Why were they there? What was his purpose?

Jewish Christians


That is my thoughts anyway.

Yours?

Great questions by the way.

 

[Eleanor]

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,(convicted by the Holy Spirt and realized the need for personal salvation) have tasted of the heavenly gift, (The “heavenly gift” being Jesus , “tasted” meaning having received salvation bought and paid for by Christ) and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (Having received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost after salvation)

5 And have tasted the good word of God, ( being knowledgeable in the written Word of God) and the powers of the world to come, ( having operated in the gifts if the Spirit)

6 (It is impossible, verse 4) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; (loss of salvation) seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Putting the Son of God to open shame is s grave matter) There are 5 conditions in the above passage. 1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. The question here is this physical death or spiritual death. IMO this is spiritual death because of the wording. The context is a “brother”. I am fully aware that this will be controversial and most likely rejected by those that hold to a strict view of eternal security. Also the doctrines of Baptism of the Holy Spirt and the operation of the gifts of the Spirit are rejected by many. This is not a discussion of those doctrines by a response to the OP with an alternate view.

In the context of Heb 1-5, the writer is stating that if those Hebrew proselytes, to whom the letter is addressed, refuse to enter gospel salvation and apostasize (return to inferior Judaism and Moses), there will be no recovery for them, just as there was no recovery for the Israelites of the promised Canaan rest (from their enemies) when they refused to enter Canaan after having "tasted" it (Nu 14), God declaring, "They shall never enter my rest." (Heb 4:3).

 

[Eleanor]

Yes, I believe they were saved: "Even though we speak like this, beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation." Hebrews 6:9.

I also believe this was a warning to Hebrews about apostasy and encouragement of the supremacy and finality of Christ as the way and as eternal High Priest whose sacrifice makes us perfect forever (those who are being sanctified, Hebrews 10:14.)

The tone of the letter, as in the case of other NT epistles, is showing it is addressed to the converted.

In light of Heb 6:4-6 referring to Heb 3:7-4:11, I suspect Paul's letter nipped the whole thing in the bud.

 

[Carbon]

Yes, I believe they were saved: "Even though we speak like this, beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation." Hebrews 6:9.

Really?
Might have to send the dog warden after you.

I also believe this was a warning to Hebrews about apostasy and encouragement of the supremacy and finality of Christ as the way and as eternal High Priest whose sacrifice makes us perfect forever (those who are being sanctified, Hebrews 10:14.)

The tone of the letter, as in the case of other NT epistles, is showing it is addressed to the converted.

The whole bible is addressed to believers. Even teaching like this of those who may be in the visible church who are not of the spiritual church.

 

[Carbon]

In light of Heb 6:4-6 referring to Heb 3:7-4:11, I suspect Paul's letter nipped the whole thing in the bud.

 

[civic]

Yes, I believe they were saved: "Even though we speak like this, beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation." Hebrews 6:9.

I also believe this was a warning to Hebrews about apostasy and encouragement of the supremacy and finality of Christ as the way and as eternal High Priest whose sacrifice makes us perfect forever (those who are being sanctified, Hebrews 10:14.)

The tone of the letter, as in the case of other NT epistles, is showing it is addressed to the converted.

I think there is a disctinction between those in verse 9 ( you the beloved a reference to brethren who are saved -that accompany salvation ) and those described prior in verses 4-8. Two different groups.

 

[Carbon]

I think there is a disctinction between those in verse 9 ( you the beloved a reference to brethren who are saved -that accompany salvation ) and those described prior in verses 4-8. Two different groups.

Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. Heb 6:9.
Yes, I believe this verse proves the author was teaching about those who are not saved.

 

[civic]

Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. Heb 6:9.
Yes, I believe this verse proves the author was teaching about those who are not saved.

There are good arguments on both sides for sure that are persuasive. It depends upon ones premise. The million dollar question is can salvation be lost.

 

[Carbon]

There are good arguments on both sides for sure that are persuasive.

Personally, I don't think so. I believe it's pretty obvious. The language is too strong. IMO of course.

It depends upon ones premise. The million dollar question is can salvation be lost.

At one time I thought salvation could be lost, and I was in fear of it. As I studied into it, and heard other opinions and matched it up to scripture, I started thinking differently. Even though, it worried me for years. But as we agree scripture interprets scripture and is in perfect harmony. Seeing scripture on perseverance and learning we are held by God's power and learning more and more about Christ, I am confident that Christ will lose none that the Father has given him.

Of course, I still know believers who claim and swear Hebrews 6:4-6 are believers. And when I try to go over those verses to show them differently, it never starts well. Lots of people are afraid to be proven wrong.

I am used to being proven wrong, I cant tell you how many times I was proven wrong.