Hebrews 6

[HIM]

Cool.

Do you only sin accidentally?

Not I but Christ. For we are dead but we live. Yet not us but Christ lives in us. And the life we now live we live by the Faith OF the Son of God whom gave Himself for us. For we are all one in Christ. And it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. So say not in your heart who shall bring Christ down from above or up from the deep.For the Word is nigh to thee in the mouth and in thy heart that you do it. That is the Faith in which we preach. For God has said, He will put His law in our hearts and in our minds.

 

[civic]

Not I but Christ. For we are dead but we live. Yet not us but Christ lives in us. And the life we now live we live by the Faith OF the Son of God whom gave Himself for us. For we are all one in Christ. And it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. So say not in your heart who shall bring Christ down from above or up from the deep.For the Word is nigh to thee in the mouth and in thy heart that you do it. That is the Faith in which we preach. For God has said, He will put His law in our hearts and in our minds.

So was that a yes or no to the sin question ?

Do you sin by accident ?

 

[HIM]

or in some cases those who claim they never sin.

I know beyond all doubt that when I sin it’s not by accident.

Is it the word we are to share

So was that a yes or no to the sin question ?

Do you sin by accident ?

Please address the text and what is said in it and not me. I am only here to share what is shared. I am not the standard and neither are our fellow brothers and sisters. It was asked who then can be saved? And Jesus said with man it is impossible. But with God all things are possible. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. In Him we are more than conquers. Paul said, Not that I have obtained or am already perfect. By I strive forward to the high calling that is Christ Jesus. Forgetting those things that were.

How can we forget if there are those who keep bringing them up?

 

[HIM]

The misunderstanding of that text has led many to do some serious virtue signaling.

Wow! What is not of THE Faith is of sin. If Christ is in us what words shall we speak? Our own? Yet if be dead be silent concerning spiritual things.

 

[Eleanor]

@Eleanor Do you believe in getting even?

What do you mean by "getting even"?

 

[HIM]

Sweet!

So do you only sin accidentally?

I am not the standard and neither are our fellow brothers and sisters. It was asked who then can be saved? And Jesus said with man it is impossible. But with God all things are possible. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. In Him we are more than conquers. Paul said, Not that I have obtained or am already perfect. By I strive forward to the high calling that is Christ Jesus. Forgetting those things that were.

How can we forget if there are those who keep bringing them up?

 

[Eleanor]

Apostasy is living in sin and those whom do so after they have received the knowledge of the truth no sacrifice remains. Only the fiery indignation which shall devour the adversary. The one continuing in willful sin.

It is the sin of unbelief, which condemns all who die in it.

 

[civic]

It is the sin of unbelief, which condemns all who die in it.

So if Peter died right after he heard the cock crow the 3rd time he would of been eternally condemned ?

 

[Arial]

For if we the verse 26 starts. Which means The writer includes himself in this admonition. And this is being stated in context to what was previously stated. Which speaks of not forsaking the fellowship of one another, provoking one another unto good works having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience in and through Christ Jesus. These are they whom have received the knowledge of the truth and prayfully do not drawback unto perdition.

That doesn't address what I said.

 

[Eleanor]

@Eleanor

That is not the sin I read.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Maybe you need to see how offensive that is for practicing as if there still remains a necessity for sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.....

This is the willful sin that makes God mad in Hebrews 10:29 by practising as if the blood of the New Covenant is on par with the blood of goats & bulls that it bears repeating,

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

By having the Holy Ghost in us is Witness to why there is no more need for sacrifice for sins for we are sanctified forever.

But by continuing as if there is still need for sacrifice for sins and treating communion as a means to that end, whoo boy. God is going to be mad.

Unless Catholics and other Protestant believers that may believe in that way repent before the Bridegroom comes, otherwise, they will get left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

Now I am just talking about what Paul is writing about here in regards to what that sin was if they willfully do that in that way, BUT yeah, if a saved believer continues to live in sin, they are at risk of being left behind too unless they look to Him for help to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes, otherwise, stripes will be coming on them from the Father for not resisting sin as mentioned here for not running that race.

Hebrews 10:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

In demonstrating the superiority of Christ to those Hebrew proselytes who were considering a return to Judaism, Paul presents the superiority of Christ to the Old Covenant leaders; i.e., to the angels, Moses and Aaronic priesthood; and then the superiority of Christ's sacrificial work to that of the Old Covenant priests; i.e., to the covenant, sanctuary and sacrifices, ending in Heb 10:19-39 with an exhortation to persevere (instead of apostasizing).

Heb 10:3 is part of Paul's demonstration of the superiority of the NT sacrifice over the OT sacrifices.
Heb 10:26 is part of the exhortation to persevere, for to deliberately keep on sinning (in apostasy, v.29) is to reject Christ's sacrifice for sin, which is the only sacrifice there is, there is no other, thereby leaving only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God (10:26).

 

[GeneZ]

That sounds very non-denominational, charismatic, word of faith, willy nilly doctrinally, mumbo jumbo and I don't desire to have that conversation.

Just letting you know.

You are on Ignore.

Its not because I can not answer your unbased charges.
Its because you will keep giving them.

Its because you keep ignoring what you do not wish to see...

Wishing you a good life...

grace and peace ..................

 

[CrowCross]

Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

If you are interested I am curious how you understand this passage.

Or anyone actually. This could be a great discussion.

Well, there's 12 pages to this thread...and I don't know if anyone has brought this up.

Hebrews 6 starts out with the words "therefore".....The question is, what is the therefore, there for.
For that answer you need to go to Hebrews 5. Basically they "tasted" didn't grow and some had reverted back to the law.

Then it gets deep.

Many use this very to show that if you lose your salvation you can't get it back. But is the verse about salvation? Or is the verse about a blessing?

Hebrews 3:16 speaks about those who heard and rebelled...after being led out of Egypt by Moses....and didn't enter into the promised land. Though they were saved they couldn't be restored and didn't enter into the promised land.

There's a lot more to the explanation as this is just the gist of it.

If you google "Chuck Missler Hebrews 6" you can get the whole theology.

 

[Eleanor]

So if Peter died right after he heard the cock crow the 3rd time he would of been eternally condemned ?

Only if in his heart he denied him.

True apostasy is in the heart.

(Grammar police: that's "would have;" i. e. "would've," rather than "would of.")

 

[CrowCross]

Scripture no where teaches a believer can lose their salvation.

Agreed. No body can snatch you out of Jesus' hand.

 

[civic]

Only if in his heart he denied him.

True apostasy is in the heart.

(Grammar police: that's "would have;" i. e. "would've," rather than "would of.")

So you are saying Peter would not of been His sheep and not elect if he died with an unconfessed sin. Is that right ?

 

[HIM]

It is the sin of unbelief, which condemns all who die in it.

Unbelief is disobedience. sinning. Do not fall after the same example.

Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

The Greek word translated Unbelief as understood From the BDAG. Bold emphasis added.

ἀπείθεια, ας, ἡ (s. ἀπειθής; X., Mem. 3, 5, 5 et al.; ins; pap; 4 Macc 8:9, 18: 12:4; PsSol 17:20) disobedience, in our lit. always of disob. toward God (cp. Jos., Ant. 3, 316); somet. w. the connotation of disbelief in the Christian gospel (see ἀπειθέω). Those who oppose God are called υἱοὶ τῆς ἀ. Eph 2:2; 5:6; Col 3:6 (some mss. om.; s. KKuhn, NTS 7, ’61, 339 for Qumran parallels). Of disob. of Israelites Ro 11:30; Hb 4:6, 11; of all humanity Ro 11:32. Personified Hs 9, 15, 3.—DELG s.v. πείθομαι. M-M. TW.

From Abbot Smith's work:
G543
** ἀπείθεια
(WH, -θία, exc. Heb 11:1-40. c.), -ας, ἡ (< ἀπειθής),
[in LXX 4Ma 8:9; 4Ma 8:18; 4Ma 12:4 *;]
disobedience (MM, VGT, s.v.): Rom 11:30; Rom 11:32, Heb 4:6; Heb 4:11; υἱοὶ τῆς ἀ. (gen. of definition, v. M, Pr., 73 f.), Eph 2:2; Eph 5:6, Col 3:6 (T, WH R, mg., omit).†
ἀπειθία, -ας, ἡ, see ἀπείθεια.

 

[Arial]

It was written to the Jewish believers.... One letter. Where would you send it if that were the case?

To wherever there were Jewish believers. As part of the Diaspora they were scattered all over the place In Rev John writes to seven of those churches in Asia. They typically had both Jewish and Gentile believers.

Diaspora Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster​

diaspora: [noun] the Jews living outside Palestine or modern Israel. the settling of scattered colonies of Jews outside ancient Palestine after the Babylonian exile. the area outside ancient Palestine settled by Jews.

The predominant view of biblical scholars is that the recipients of Hebrews were most likely in Italy.

The timeline shows it was written just before Jerusalem fell. And, was apparently written to Jews who had access to the Temple.
Otherwise? In my opinion, Hebrews 6:6 would have been not something to be mentioned.

and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again
and subjecting him to public disgrace.

So you are basing your idea that it was written to those who had access to the Temple of that portion of those verses? That is such poor hermeneutics that it couldn't even be seen as hermeneutics. It is pure speculation based on wind. It is not speaking about the animal sacrifices just because it uses the word sacrifice. If someone were to be enlightened, taste, partake etc and then they rejected Christ and later tried to come back to Him---that would be the same think as crucifying Him again as He had already would have paid for their sins with His first crucifixion. Follow? If I need to make it clearer, I will try. And as you can see, it would be impossible for a true believer to do so for in His forgiveness, in the sins He paid for on the cross, is also the sin of unbelief.

Animal sacrifices were only performed in the Temple in Jerusalem.

And therefore---Hebrews is not addressing those who were in danger of falling back into Judaism.

 

[HIM]

Scripture no where teaches a believer can lose their salvation.

Except Heb. 6 and 10., 1 Cor 9 and 3, Gal 5 and Rev 2 and 3 to name a few.

 

[civic]

Except Heb. 6 and 10., 1 Cor 9 and 3, Gal 5 and Rev 2 and 3 to name a few.

So if one sins they lose their salvation and if they don’t sin they keep their salvation . Salvation then is based on perfect obedience and not on Christ. Christ saves us but we must keep ourselves saved. That’s a works based salvation and not one based on grace through faith apart from works .

 

[HIM]

That doesn't address what I said.

It is the context of the passage. Which addresses what was said. I won't continue unless you address the passage that is in dispute. And that would be Hebrews 10 or 6. Take care