Gen 6...who are the sons of God?

[Alive]

Not kicking....

Thank you. Makes for a much more inviting house.

 

[LeviR]

Yes, they were not given to marriage in heaven. What you and others have done is made an assumption that Angels can't reproduce based upon that text...which that text doesn't demonstrate.

He says but neither do they die. If they don’t die, they are immortal. If they are immortal they don’t sin because the wages of sin is death.
When the water covered them they died. Therefore, they were not immortal.

 

[CrowCross]

I understand your pov. It’s not mine.
For myself, the law of kinds is the trump card.
I have not seen evidence in scripture to move from that position.
I see lots of speculation and in the case of Mike Heiser an interesting construct…I was almost convinced.
Almost.

How do you know angels and humans are not the same "kind"?

Considering they had offspring with human women...their DNA seems to have been close enough.

 

[CrowCross]

Genesis 6 screams out that angels were originally designed and created to sexually procreate!
Adam was all alone and was designed the same way! If Adam rebelled while yet being alone?

Interesting thought.

 

[CrowCross]

He says but neither do they die. If they don’t die, they are immortal. If they are immortal they don’t sin because the wages of sin is death.
When the water covered them they died. Therefore, they were not immortal.

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this.

My only response right now would be the Nephilim died in the flood...or killed in war prior to the flood...and their spirits are what became know today as demons.

 

[Arial]

Yes, they were not given to marriage in heaven. What you and others have done is made an assumption that Angels can't reproduce based upon that text...which that text doesn't demonstrate.

And you have made an assumption that they can and only your interpretation of Gen 6 and the book of Enoch (NOT GOD'S WORD)as support for the assumption. Your interpretation is not infallible. You are using a non biblical source to interpret Scripture which is bad hermeneutics, and not rightly handling the word of God. The correct hermeneutic is that scripture interprets scripture.

 

[Alive]

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this.

My only response right now would be the Nephilim died in the flood...or killed in war prior to the flood...and their spirits are what became know today as demons.

But, there were giants in Canaan years later and quite possibly much further away…although that is speculation.

 

[GeneZ]

He says but neither do they die. If they don’t die, they are immortal. If they are immortal they don’t sin because the wages of sin is death.
When the water covered them they died. Therefore, they were not immortal.

The fallen angels in Noah's day did not die.
They were arrested and locked up!

On the other hand...
Their offspring who were being half human, were able to die, and died in the flood!

For God did not spare even the angels who sinned. He threw them into hell, in gloomy ​

pits of darkness, where they are being held until the day of judgment. And God did not ​

spare the ancient world-except for Noah and the seven others in his family." 2 Pet 2:4-5​

2 Pet 2:4-5 lets us know that God took those rebellious angels from Noah's day,
and locked them up beneath the earth in chains of darkness!

They did not die. They got transferred!

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went
and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago
when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few
people, eight in all, were saved through water." 1 Peter 3:18-20​

We will all need to know this eventually if we are to grow in God's plan for maturing in Christ.
Its was angels! Rebellious angels that had not yet fallen at the time when Satan and his angels rebelled.
They were a second wave of rebellion.

Grace and peace ...........

 

[CrowCross]

And you have made an assumption that they can and only your interpretation of Gen 6 and the book of Enoch (NOT GOD'S WORD)as support for the assumption. Your interpretation is not infallible. You are using a non biblical source to interpret Scripture which is bad hermeneutics, and not rightly handling the word of God. The correct hermeneutic is that scripture interprets scripture.

You seemed to have forgotten...the book was quoted by Peter and Jude. Even Jesus referred to the book of Enoch.
The Jews of that day as well an earlier kept copies of Enoch in their temples. Fragments were found with the dead sea scrolls

Now, does this make it an inspired writing in and of itself...no. But, much value has been placed upon it and it's going to take a little more that what you presented here to knock it off of it's pedestal.

Scripture interprets scripture...as Job call the angels "sons of God"....and so does Gen 6.

 

[CrowCross]

But, there were giants in Canaan years later and quite possibly much further away…although that is speculation.

Yes, there were Nephilim after the flood. That isn't biblical speculation.

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, there were Nephilim after the flood. That isn't biblical speculation.

After the flood? God forced man into scattered isolated nations...

When the "Nephilim" originally happened in Genesis 6?
Man was living as collectively as one nation, one people, speaking one language.
The Genesis 6 time of mutations was potentially a threat to all mankind.
Later, after the flood? God isolated mankind into groups, separating one from another.

Mankind having become separated into different isolated groups no longer was being as one nation like before the flood.

So... It appears that later on some more angels became filled with lust and took human women, but only within isolated groups.

When it happened in isolation, that kind of mutation would not be a threat to the genetic integrity of all of mankind.
So? Instead of a flood to destroy them?
God simply commanded Israel to wipe out a people, thus not needing a flood as was needed the first time.
That is why we see sometimes the command to kill all women and children, not just the men!

Eventually all angels who were not 100% with God were weeded out from the nation of angels.
God let it happen because He needed to purify all the angels as their own nation.

That is why after the flood we read that Nephilim did still pop up. But, when it happened?
Only amongst isolated pagan people, in isolated cases, after the flood.

Grace and peace .................

 

[LeviR]

The fallen angels in Noah's day did not die.
They were arrested and locked up!

On the other hand...
Their offspring who were being half human, were able to die, and died in the flood!

For God did not spare even the angels who sinned. He threw them into hell, in gloomy ​

pits of darkness, where they are being held until the day of judgment. And God did not ​

spare the ancient world-except for Noah and the seven others in his family." 2 Pet 2:4-5​

2 Pet 2:4-5 lets us know that God took those rebellious angels from Noah's day,
and locked them up beneath the earth in chains of darkness!

They did not die. They got transferred!

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. ​

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went​

and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago ​

when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few ​

people, eight in all, were saved through water." 1 Peter 3:18-20​

We will all need to know this eventually if we are to grow in God's plan for maturing in Christ.
Its was angels! Rebellious angels that had not yet fallen at the time when Satan and his angels rebelled.
They were a second wave of rebellion.

Grace and peace ...........

Can you explain when the first angels rebelled. Or what was the first sign of rebellion?
And also, how did it occur that angels could marry daughters of men?

 

[Arial]

You seemed to have forgotten...the book was quoted by Peter and Jude. Even Jesus referred to the book of Enoch.

That doesn't make it equal to Scripture. The book of Enoch is not a part of the canon. There is a reason for that.

The Jews of that day as well an earlier kept copies of Enoch in their temples.

They did a lot of things they weren't supposed to. They also turned the temple court---part of the worship system---into a den of thieves.

Now, does this make it an inspired writing in and of itself...no. But, much value has been placed upon it and it's going to take a little more that what you presented here to knock it off of it's pedestal.

Interesting you have put it on a pedestal. The simple fact is, it appeals to you and it is what you want to believe and you simply won't consider the validity of other ways of seeing it. Not even if they are more biblical. It does not seem to bother you in the least that the whole of scripture does not support it. Or that you are using Enoch and a couple of quotes from Enoch as the basis for your belief.

But it makes me no never mind. It would be better if you stated those things that you do as being the way you see it, or as your understanding, and give others the same lee way, rather than state everything you say about it as indisputable fact and truth.

 

[GeneZ]

Can you explain when the first angels rebelled. Or what was the first sign of rebellion?
And also, how did it occur that angels did marry daughters of men?

God assigned Adam while only a male to first name all the animals of the earth... before a helpmate would be given to Adam.

For the angels? In the prehistoric world, like Adam was, they were given assignments by God to finish before they were to receive their helpmates.

Problem with the prehistoric situation? Unlike Adam who did not protest and rebel against God while taking the needed time to name all the animals of the world? Satan became arrogant, and felt the angels deserved better. He then acted like a corrupt union leader, promising angels a better life than what God was having them go through to be tested by.

The rebellion came. Angels chose between the camps of the Lord verse Satan's alleged "better world."
Conflicts broke out. Satan in his heart murdered the Lord by wanting to replace Him.
And, then God brought the prehistoric kingdom to a halt and destroyed it.

Jeremiah cited Genesis 1:2 (in the Hebrew) to show some of what took place in the destruction of the prehistoric world.

Jeremiah 4:23-27​

​

I looked at the earth,​

and it was formless and empty; (Genesis 1:2)​

and at the heavens,​

and their light was gone.​

I looked at the mountains,​

and they were quaking;​

all the hills were swaying.​

I looked, and there were no people; (Hebrew = generic term for humanoid)​

every bird in the sky had flown away.​

I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;​

all its towns lay in ruins​

before the Lord, before his fierce anger.​

​

This is what the Lord says:​

​

“The whole land will be ruined,​

though I will not destroy it completely.​

Jeremiah needed to add verse 27 for good reason.

27

“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely.​

Verse 27? - Not destroy the land completely? Why said that way?
Jeremiah in the power of the Spirit prophesized that for good reason!

Why?

Because the rebellious Jews that Jeremiah was confronting understood the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2.
They knew that in Genesis 1:2, in the Hebrew, that the earth was laid waste and in utter ruin.
That is why Jeremiah had to add verse 27. It was to let the Jews (and angels) know that Israel was not to be completely destroyed!

The prehistoric world was left in utter ruin.
Satan and his rebellion with his angels brought God's judgement upon the prehistoric world.

So much we did not know there is to know....

grace and peace ............

 

[GeneZ]

You seemed to have forgotten...the book was quoted by Peter and Jude. Even Jesus referred to the book of Enoch.
The Jews of that day as well an earlier kept copies of Enoch in their temples. Fragments were found with the dead sea scrolls

Now, does this make it an inspired writing in and of itself...no. But, much value has been placed upon it and it's going to take a little more that what you presented here to knock it off of it's pedestal.

Scripture interprets scripture...as Job call the angels "sons of God"....and so does Gen 6.

The book of Enoch was commentary on the Torah. Not Scripture in itself.
Rabbis reading Hebrew knew what "sons of God" meant. It did not take Enoch to make it known.

 

[LeviR]

God assigned Adam while only a male to first name all the animals of the earth... before a helpmate would be given to Adam.

For the angels? In the prehistoric world, like Adam was, they were given assignments by God to finish before they were to receive their helpmates.

Problem with the prehistoric situation? Unlike Adam who did not protest and rebel against God while taking the needed time to name all the animals of the world? Satan became arrogant, and felt the angels deserved better. He then acted like a corrupt union leader, promising angels a better life than what God was having them go through to be tested by.

The rebellion came. Angels chose between the camps of the Lord verse Satan's alleged "better world."
Conflicts broke out. Satan in his heart murdered the Lord by wanting to replace Him.
And, then God brought the prehistoric kingdom to a halt and destroyed it.

Jeremiah cited Genesis 1:2 (in the Hebrew) to show some of what took place in the destruction of the prehistoric world.

Jeremiah 4:23-27​

​

I looked at the earth,​

and it was formless and empty; (Genesis 1:2)​

and at the heavens,​

and their light was gone.​

I looked at the mountains,​

and they were quaking;​

all the hills were swaying.​

I looked, and there were no people; (Hebrew = generic term for humanoid)​

every bird in the sky had flown away.​

I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;​

all its towns lay in ruins​

before the Lord, before his fierce anger.​

​

This is what the Lord says:​

​

“The whole land will be ruined,​

though I will not destroy it completely.​

Jeremiah needed to add verse 27 for good reason.

27

“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely.​

Verse 27? - Not destroy the land completely? Why said that way?
Jeremiah in the power of the Spirit prophesized that for good reason!

Why?

Because the rebellious Jews that Jeremiah was confronting understood the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2.
They knew that in Genesis 1:2, in the Hebrew, that the earth was laid waste and in utter ruin.
That is why Jeremiah had to add verse 27. It was to let the Jews (and angels) know that Israel was not to be completely destroyed!

The prehistoric world was left in utter ruin.
Satan and his rebellion with his angels brought God's judgement upon the prehistoric world.

So much we did not know there is to know....

grace and peace ............

I believe Jeremiah’s prophecy refers to the last day when God’s judgments will come upon the earth.

 

[GeneZ]

I believe Jeremiah’s prophecy refers to the last day when God’s judgments will come upon the earth.

I would like to make a suggestion.

It taken it will leave you gaining an education as if you were sitting in an excellent seminary.

Get your reference books off the shelf if you decide to give it a try.


R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

First read his bio. Then look on top of the web page and click on.. "Audio Lessons- complete lesson listings. "

Then search in the OT section, and locate Jeremiah. [ 540 Jeremiah (1970) 1–149]

That '149' means how many hours he taught line upon line from the book of Jeremiah from the Hebrew.

Then? Search out the financial policy. You will find out no money will be asked for.

Pastors and many believers have used his lessons for their own private study.

grace and peace ....................

 

[LeviR]

I would like to make a suggestion.

It taken it will leave you gaining an education as if you were sitting in an excellent seminary.

Get your reference books off the shelf if you decide to give it a try.


R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

First read his bio. Then look on top of the web page and click on.. "Audio Lessons- complete lesson listings. "

Then search in the OT section, and locate Jeremiah. [ 540 Jeremiah (1970) 1–149]

That '149' means how many hours he taught line upon line from the book of Jeremiah from the Hebrew.

Then? Search out the financial policy. You will find out no money will be asked for.

Pastors and many believers have used his lessons for their own private study.

grace and peace ....................

Do you think Jeremiah’s prophecy refers to the end days?

 

[LeviR]

I would like to make a suggestion.

It taken it will leave you gaining an education as if you were sitting in an excellent seminary.

Get your reference books off the shelf if you decide to give it a try.


R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

First read his bio. Then look on top of the web page and click on.. "Audio Lessons- complete lesson listings. "

Then search in the OT section, and locate Jeremiah. [ 540 Jeremiah (1970) 1–149]

That '149' means how many hours he taught line upon line from the book of Jeremiah from the Hebrew.

Then? Search out the financial policy. You will find out no money will be asked for.

Pastors and many believers have used his lessons for their own private study.

grace and peace ....................

I read his tab on salvation. He believes Jesus was a substitute to pay the penalty for our sins.

Jesus needed to be saved himself or he could not have saved anyone else.

I figure if one can’t consume milk he won’t know where to begin with meatier food.

 

[GeneZ]

Do you think Jeremiah’s prophecy refers to the end days?

It referred to the captivity Israel was about to go into for 70 years.
Daniel, the three Jewish boys in the furnace, and Jeremiah were all contemporaries.

The rebellious Jews were practicing horrific pagan rituals that involved religious sex orgies while sacrificing their children into fire.