Fruit Of The Spirit

[jeremiah1five]

You will have a hard time proving that the majority of believers came to Christ through a perfect rendition of the Gospel.

Prove it.

 

[ChristB4us]

Your Posts are still too long for me to read...

I leave that to the Lord since He did the Sermon on the Mount and people that sought Him did listen.

You know the old saying, we can lead the horse to the water but we cannot make them drink?

This is why His yoke is easy & His burden is light even in ministry.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I am a Majority Text person myself. There is a massive agreement between the Received Text (that the KJV is based on) and the Majority Text so I'm good with the KJV and NKJV. I'm curious about your statements about the NIV. Could you list out at least a few of the NIV verses that you think are "corrupted"? If you could limit them to only those that affect our salvation, this could prove very interesting.

The corruption is in the 200 Greek texts Westcott and Hort's translation team used to create what's known as the 1881 Revised Version. From this Greek revision they developed all modern-day English translations are made including the NIV, the NKJV, the NLT, and ALL the English bibles on the market today.
This is Church history. These are facts. These can be verified with going to the correct sources because today's world Christians are reading and studying these bibles and taking them to church. Look up John W. Burgon who defended the KJV against the attempt to destroy God's Word through Westcott and Hort's Greek New Testament text. If you want to use a bible whose Greek texts were found in a wastebasket in a monastery, and at the Vatican Library go ahead.
Me, I know enough of these events in Church history to know better.

 

[jeremiah1five]

FYI
Short Story: There is an on going debate as to the relative worth of the KJV compared to modern translations. The KJV was the only English version around for 100s years. The tradition of people came to idolize (too strong a word) the KJV. Well, time goes on and lot more manuscripts are found that partially causes the need for an update.

More boring details:
You can google the youtube site for "james white kjv debate" to get more details. He will outline the reasons needed for new translations and mention some limitations to the KJV like:

• not as many older copies to consider when KJV written
• the king of England put on some minor limitations
• They didn't have any manuscripts for Revelation at the time and there was a time crunch so they use someones commentary of Revelation
• disclaimer ... I'm going by memory
• interesting side-bar ... KJV and NKJV and maybe on other versions have John 5:4 in them. New versions go from verse 3 to 5. There are other quirks

See youtube "textual criticism daniel wallace" for how they go about putting the Bible together if you are so inclined

IMO the KJV is 99.8% accurate and the word for word translations are 99.9% accurate. I can't validate the percentage. The statement is more qualitative and quantitative.

Interesting anecdote: I recall hearing the story of my uncle, aunt and several of their kids at a Sunday sermon and the pastor starts to use non KJV; I assume for the first time ... well, my uncle and his family get up immediately and leave forever the church they attended for years.

Search the defender of the KJV, John William Burgon for an accurate telling of what Westcott and Hort did and what was wrong with their 1881 Revision.
Two books: "Which Bible" by David Fuller, and "The King James Version Defended" by Edward F. Hills.
It's been many, many years when the Revised Version was published. The Church and Christian Universities were already in the hands of liberals who applauded what Westcott and Hort did.
Liberalism in the Church today is rampant and along with the "Social Gospel" the assault on God's Church and His Word continues.
Every generation of Christians HAVE TO contend for the faith once delivered.
We can't go to sleep when attacks on the true faith are made.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I leave that to the Lord since He did the Sermon on the Mount and people that sought Him did listen.

You know the old saying, we can lead the horse to the water but we cannot make them drink?

This is why His yoke is easy & His burden is light even in ministry.

The horse will drink if you put sand in its mouth.
You gotta be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The corruption is in the 200 Greek texts Westcott and Hort's translation team used to create what's known as the 1881 Revised Version. From this Greek revision they developed all modern-day English translations are made including the NIV, the NKJV, the NLT, and ALL the English bibles on the market today.
This is Church history. These are facts. These can be verified with going to the correct sources because today's world Christians are reading and studying these bibles and taking them to church. Look up John W. Burgon who defended the KJV against the attempt to destroy God's Word through Westcott and Hort's Greek New Testament text. If you want to use a bible whose Greek texts were found in a wastebasket in a monastery, and at the Vatican Library go ahead.
Me, I know enough of these events in Church history to know better.

EDIT who mocked [laughed at] the truth.
I recognize the spirit.
EDIT BY MOD

 

[Ritajanice]

Every generation of Christians HAVE TO contend for the faith once delivered.
We can't go to sleep when attacks on the true faith are made.

Contend for the faith once delivered?

We can’t go to sleep when attacks on the true faith are made?

 

[Ritajanice]

I recognize the spirit.
Or the lack thereof.
Now I know who you are.
Rot's of Ruck.

please explain?

I recognise the spirit?.....

Or the lack thereof?

Now I know who you are?

Rot’s of Ruck...meaning?

 

[Synergy]

The Old Testament Scripture was written in Hebrew and small parts in Chaldee.
The New Testament was written in Greek and small parts of Aramaic.
These are the original languages of the inspired and inerrant Holy Scriptures.
In these languages God said what He means and means what He said.
In order to learn what God said accurately and precisely one must refer to the Hebrew and Greek.
You can't get doctrine from a translation because languages are different, and when translating one has to find a suitable word to translate the original and sometimes such words are not precise nor available.
I have taken you to the Hebrew to unlock precisely the Hebrew for the target verse(s) I covered. I explained to you that in the original Hebrew Job's sons and daughters were not killed according to the original Hebrew. But since you're using an English translation that was developed from the Greek texts of Westcott and Hort in 1881, all the modern-day, new-age English translations derive from their Greek text, which scholars at the time challenged number one for using Greek texts that were older but not being used by the Church through the centuries and Greek texts that were authored by unknowns and in places unknown.
Westcott and Hort used about 200 Greek texts to develop their Greek revision and from that Greek revision translated that into the English Revised Version published in 1881. Their two main Greek texts they relied on were called Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.
I believe that it was a man named Tischendorf who found the Greek Sinaiticus in a wastebasket in a monastery at the foot of Mount Sinai, and the other Greek text was found in the Vatican Library. Westcott and Hort did not believe in the inspiration of the Bible nor did they believe in the inerrancy of the Scriptures. Both were closet Catholics who practiced Mariology or the worship of Mary. There are things Westcott's son also reveals about his father's beliefs. These are factual history that can be verified researching the correct sources because you will find many sources that uphold the translational work by these two men and their group of translators who developed a Greek Revision from which all modern-day English translations derive.
One of those translations is the NIV (1973 and 1978.) The NKJV and the Good News Bible, and the NLT, and all the other translations all come from their revision of their Greek text version taken from corrupt Greek texts they used.
The translation called the Received Text were Greek texts used by the Church from at least the third and fourth century. Today, there are over 5,300 texts and/or fragments used to make the King James Version. God has preserved His Word in these 5,300 Greek texts and from these came the Received Text because these were received and used in the early Greek Church. There are over 5,300 copies because as these texts were used they got worn out so copies were made. Some were destroyed after copying and some were kept. That's why there are so many.
Westcott and Hort's team utilized only about 200 Greek texts to make their Revision. Why 200? One reason is that these texts were not being used, and if not being used they were not being worn out and the need for copying was unnecessary.
Now, I've spent time and effort to educate you about this history of Westcott and Hort and their 1881 Revision to hopefully cause you to look into how you got your English translation, the NIV. I've said enough and posted enough. If you don't want to learn the history of these two men and what they done which has now caused confusion in the Church with all these English translations in the hands of Christian that derive from their corrupt Greek text and who don't even know the history on this issue.
They shop for bibles and see the words "Living Translation" or other marketable terms or specialty bibles and they think they're getting a good translation to read and study.
There are a great many problems with Westcott and Hort's Greek text taken from 200 other Greek texts to make their revision, and many Christian scholars of that time that challenged their work to be a corruption. One of these champions for the defense of the King James Bible was John W. Burgon who in his studies as linguist show the Westcott and Hort's revision with over 36,000 changes made in their text. Omission of words, changing of words and paragraphs, adding words, and so forth.
Now, I've given you the lead. Look into it yourself and learn history of their bible.
And learn the history of the KJV.
And then decide. But I've read and studied enough to take a position. I am not ignorant of this subject. Sadly, many millions of Christians are.

Weren't the Received Text what Erasmus managed to compile based only on what he could gather at that time? For example, he had only one copy of Revelations. Greece was under the ottoman empire so you couldn't just stroll over to Greece and pick up copies then. It's a absolute miracle that Erasmus managed to do such a great job. That's why I'm more of a Majority Text person than a Received Text person.

 

[Ritajanice]

EDIT who mocked [laughed at] the truth.
I recognize the spirit.
Or the lack thereof.
EDIT

I laughed at what I believe to be “ your truth”.

There is nothing of scripture in your post about the NIV...

 

[jeremiah1five]

Contend for the faith once delivered?

We can’t go to sleep when attacks on the true faith are made?

So, WAKE UP!
Your refusal to learn history of the Church where translations are concerned is troubling.
Your attitude especially on this post "Fruit of the Spirit" is revealing.

14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works 2 Ti 4:14.

Lack of love is defined by the word "schism."
Like a tear in a fabric or a cleave from an axe, division is the result.
But the Lord did come to bring division.
To divide sheep from goats.
To bring a sword.

 

[Ritajanice]

So, WAKE UP!
Your refusal to learn history of the Church where translations are concerned is troubling.
Your attitude especially on this post "Fruit of the Spirit" is revealing.

14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works 2 Ti 4:14.

Lack of love is defined by the word "schism."
Like a tear in a fabric or a cleave from an axe, division is the result.
But the Lord did come to bring division.
To divide sheep from goats.
To bring a sword.

I have no idea what you are talking about..I am a Born Again....History of the church, that you post doesn’t make it true.

Only the LIVING word of God is truth....man’s truth is void....

Can you please explain in your own words what it means to be “ Birthed in the Spirit “ @jeremiah1five ?

That is in the NIV...I have asked you once before..maybe you missed it...I ask again?

Are you saying what the word of God is saying in the NIV , being birthed in the Spirit is corrupt text?

 

[Synergy]

The corruption is in the 200 Greek texts Westcott and Hort's translation team used to create what's known as the 1881 Revised Version. From this Greek revision they developed all modern-day English translations are made including the NIV, the NKJV, the NLT, and ALL the English bibles on the market today.
This is Church history. These are facts. These can be verified with going to the correct sources because today's world Christians are reading and studying these bibles and taking them to church. Look up John W. Burgon who defended the KJV against the attempt to destroy God's Word through Westcott and Hort's Greek New Testament text. If you want to use a bible whose Greek texts were found in a wastebasket in a monastery, and at the Vatican Library go ahead.
Me, I know enough of these events in Church history to know better.

I don't doubt you even for a nanosecond. I totally agree with what you said concerning Westcott and Hort's compilation. All I'm asking is if you can list out at least a few of the NIV verses that you think are "corrupted"? If you could limit them to only those that affect our salvation, this could prove very interesting.

 

[Ritajanice]

So, WAKE UP!
Your refusal to learn history of the Church where translations are concerned is troubling.
Your attitude especially on this post "Fruit of the Spirit" is revealing.

14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works 2 Ti 4:14.

Lack of love is defined by the word "schism."
Like a tear in a fabric or a cleave from an axe, division is the result.
But the Lord did come to bring division.
To divide sheep from goats.
To bring a sword.

Do you think there is anything revealing about your posts?

I’m not understanding why you haven’t answered my question.?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Weren't the Received Text what Erasmus managed to compile based only on what he could gather at that time? For example, he had only one copy of Revelations. Greece was under the ottoman empire so you couldn't just stroll over to Greece and pick up copies then. It's a absolute miracle that Erasmus managed to do such a great job. That's why I'm more of a Majority Text person than a Received Text person.

Good for you.
Keep studying.
Your understanding will grow.

@Ritajanice

5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning;
And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation;
The words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge:
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Prov. 1:5–7.

22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
And the scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge?
Prov. 1:22.

29 For that they hated knowledge,
And did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel:
They despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way,
And be filled with their own devices.
Prov. 1:29–31.

8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee:
Rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser:
Teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom:
And the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
11 For by me thy days shall be multiplied,
And the years of thy life shall be increased.
12 If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself:
But if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.
Prov. 9:8–12.

16 Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool
To get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?
Prov. 17:16.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I laughed at what I believe to be “ your truth”.

There is nothing of scripture in your post about the NIV...

Read #156.
I break it down for you.
But it seems your happy with the translation rather than the original.
Getting truth from a corrupt translation like the NIV is like a foot out of joint.
One cannot walk. They limp at best, and fall at most.
I've said enough about who died when the house fell.
The Hebrew doesn't list "daughters" but "young men" who died.
The word "young men" means "servants.
Job's children were not killed.
But your translation added the word "daughters" in verse 19 leading you to believe Job's kids were killed.
You're getting false doctrine from a translation that used corrupt Greek texts.
If you like sour apples get on with it.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Ritajanice

5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning;
And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation;
The words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge:
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Prov. 1:5–7.

22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
And the scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge?
Prov. 1:22.

29 For that they hated knowledge,
And did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel:
They despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way,
And be filled with their own devices.
Prov. 1:29–31.

8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee:
Rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser:
Teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom:
And the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
11 For by me thy days shall be multiplied,
And the years of thy life shall be increased.
12 If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself:
But if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.
Prov. 9:8–12.

Proverbs 28:26​

26 If you think you know it all, you're a fool for sure; real survivors learn wisdom from others.

 

[Ritajanice]

Read #156.
I break it down for you.
But it seems your happy with the translation rather than the original.
Getting truth from a corrupt translation like the NIV is like a foot out of joint.
One cannot walk. They limp at best, and fall at most.
I've said enough about who died when the house fell.
The Hebrew doesn't list "daughters" but "young men" who died.
The word "young men" means "servants.
Job's children were not killed.
But your translation added the word "daughters" in verse 19 leading you to believe Job's kids were killed.
You're getting false doctrine from a translation that used corrupt Greek texts.
If you like sour apples get on with it.

I am very happy with the NIV...if it’s not allowed on this forum...then I will leave....are you saying I’m not allowed to use the NIV?....maybe @preacher4truth can answer?...thank you.

I’m being told the NIV is corrupt by @jeremiah1five .

I have studied Born Again for years from the word of God, NIV and understand perfectly what his word is saying in that version.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't doubt you even for a nanosecond. I totally agree with what you said concerning Westcott and Hort's compilation. All I'm asking is if you can list out at least a few of the NIV verses that you think are "corrupted"? If you could limit them to only those that affect our salvation, this could prove very interesting.

Maybe on another post. This is "Fruit of the Spirit" and although there is some correlation to these corrupt translations I resolve in #156 who died when the house fell in the Book of Job.
It wasn't his three sons and three daughters.
I grow weary this morning of repeating myself to the hard-hearted.
I've already pointed the way.
Now I leave it to others to go that way or remain on their corrupt path.
I appreciate you knowing about this subject on the origin of translations. This subject goes directly to heart of our salvation post-conversion and since it has to do with the Word of God, as the Psalmist said, there are two ways: One leads to life, the other to death.

 

[Ritajanice]

I grow weary this morning of repeating myself to the hard-hearted.

Says you!.....no one knows the heart of God’s child....only God knows their heart and where they are at, on their journey with him through the Spirit.