Free Will

[Eleanor]

eleanor
I cant believe this, I just posted it Rom 4:8
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

My mistake, I apologize.

I was thinking of the imputation of sin to Adam in Ro 5:12-19, rather than the imputation of righteousness to Abraham in Ro 4,
which imputation of Adam's sin to those born of Adam is, by the way, the pattern (Ro 5:14) for the imputation of Christ's righteousness to those born of Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Matt Slick has a take on that, that the numbers add up to some Biblical significance, but can't remember what he said. It was interesting.

Why is 153 fish mentioned in John 21:11?

Why is 153 fish mentioned in John 21:11? The truth is that the number is how many individuals were blessed by Jesus in the four gospels

carm.org

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Missed that you had already found it @preacher4truth

 

[makesends]

If heaven is a real place then time exists there does it not . Why do they cry out how long will you wait Lord to repay and take your vengeance from those in heaven upon the wicked here on earth ?

I conjecture that time is only a picture of sorts, of the sequences of Heaven, if even 'sequence' applies there. But regardless, the reality is Heaven, and is not patterned after this earth's "realities". The fact that reality to us integrates, or even depends on, time, does not define reality in Heaven. We are, after all, only human, ignorant and blind.

 

[Water and Fire]

So I know I'm kind of late to the party, but how do Free will advocates explain this verse, and verses like it?


Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God


I don't see how humanity could be in the "bondage of corruption" and yet with a "free will" at the same time.

 

[brightfame52]

Mans will isnt free from the confines of his or her sin nature which is captured by the devil, Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2 Tim 2:25-26

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Taken captive here is in the perfect tense denoting its completeness, its like being a prisoner of war. The only solution is if God gives repentance.

And as noticed in our Eph 2 passage, the unregenerate man must walk according to the course of this world, not free to do otherwise, must walk according to the prince of the power of the air, cant do otherwise, must be fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and cant do otherwise, so is that freewill ?

 

[fastfredy0]

So I know I'm kind of late to the party, but how do Free will advocates explain this verse, and verses like it?


Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God


I don't see how humanity could be in the "bondage of corruption" and yet with a "free will" at the same time.

I think they limit FREE WILL to a salvific choice and throw in "prevenient grace" to compensate for Total Depravity.

 

[Ritajanice]

Before the new birth, man is at enmity with God, and will not choose Him. So it is impossible for the word itself to produce faith in the heart of the natural man. He is determined not to seek God.

Thoughts?

Well....I must say I have great difficulty in understanding how anyone can choose God.....probably because he chose me....I did not choose to be birthed in the Spirit....he drew me to Jesus, I even believe he drew me to believe in Jesus, then I was birthed in the Spirit.....yet I’ve been told i chose to believe in him/ Jesus .....I question that now........I believe God drew me to believe in Jesus....how would I have known to do that I ask?.....as a sinner?..that I was....and you must be birthed then you have faith as it’s God given faith....not manmade faith...

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

If heaven is a real place then time exists there does it not . Why do they cry out how long will you wait Lord to repay and take your vengeance from those in heaven upon the wicked here on earth ?

Because they can. God gives them robes and tells them to wait a little longer. How long is "a little longer"?

I mean it's a good observation, Civic, but we just don't know. And that Crystal Sea sure sounds like a "sea" of water caught mid-wave in time.

 

[Eleanor]

So I know I'm kind of late to the party, but how do Free will advocates explain this verse, and verses like it?

Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God

It goes to the meaning of free will, which is about what man himself is able to do, not about what is done to him.
And what we see operating in Scripture is: "the power to freely and willingly, without external force or constraint, choose what one prefers."

I don't see how humanity could be in the "bondage of corruption" and yet with a "free will" at the same time.

He still chooses what he prefers, which is the meaning of free will as we see it operate in Scripture.

Keeping in mind, that free will is not a concern of Scripture, it is a concern of philosophy which requires it for man to be responsible for sin.

 

[civic]

Because they can. God gives them robes and tells them to wait a little longer. How long is "a little longer"?

I mean it's a good observation, Civic, but we just don't know. And that Crystal Sea sure sounds like a "sea" of water caught mid-wave in time.

Yes the pondering/wondering/awe, contemplating that place conjures up lofty thoughts, mind-boggling concepts, anticipation of our arrival in eternity. Oh what a day it will be seeing our Blessed Lord face to face

 

[brightfame52]

Deliverance from unbelief !

Unbelief is one of the sins that the elect world is saved from, that's the significance of this portion Jn 16:8-9.

The Holy Spirit convicts the elect unbeliever of sin and gives them faith.

Paul is an example, he was an elect who in unbelief rejected Jesus Christ and persecuted His followers, being blinded by the god of this world, but when it pleased God, He revealed in Him Jesus christ and he became a believer.

1 Tim 1:12-15,16

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith [to believe] and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Being saved experimentally is being delivered from unbelief .

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The Fact is, no one Jesus Christ died to save, can ever die in unbelief, that would defeat one of the main purposes of His death accomplishments.

 

[brightfame52]

wrong thread

 

[fastfredy0]

Oh what a day it will be seeing our Blessed Lord face to face

That day frightens me.

 

[civic]

That day frightens me.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and believers will stand before the Son at the Judgment Seat of Christ to give an account to Him for our service, talents , gifts and how they were or were not used for Him.

2 Cor 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

It goes of to say therefore knowing the fear of the Lord we pursued men.

It’s a very unpopular message in some circles to discuss .

 

[ReverendRV]

That day frightens me.

I know the feeling; It's a Scary proposition. We LOVE that we're Saved by Grace, but a part of us can be afraid of Judgment Day. We shouldn't Fear...

Moreover, faith lays hold on Christ. It is like the Greek Antisthenes, who went to a philosopher to learn; but he was a dull scholar, and the philosopher bade him go away. The next time the class met, Antisthenes returned, and the philosopher thereupon sent for a man with a club to drive the stupid scholar away; but he was overcome by his scholar; for Antisthenes said, "There is no club that was ever made that is heavy enough to drive me away from you. Here I mean to stay, and learn whatever you can teach me." Oh, may we have a faith like that, a faith that will say to Christ, "I will not go away from thee. I can but perish if I stay with thee, and if I go from thee, I must perish; therefore I will abide with thee evermore, and learn all thou wilt teach me"! Faith is like the Greek in the days of Xerxes, who seized the boat with his right hand. When they chopped off the right hand, he seized it with the left hand; when they cut off the left hand, he laid hold of the boat with his teeth, and did not let go until they severed his head from his body. Soul, if thou canst lay hold of Christ with thy right hand, or with thy left hand, it will be well with thee. Cling to Christ, and say to him with that holy boldness that is the result of faith, "I will not let thee go except thou bless me." Faith, then, holds on to Christ.

The Perseverance of Faith by C. H. Spurgeon

C. H. Spurgeon :: The Perseverance of Faith

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[fastfredy0]

2 Cor 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

I'm hoping I don't get what I deserve for the BAD part. If so, I am "toast". Aside: AMP has note saying "bad" could be "inferior"
I'm just hoping to be rewarded for the good part that the Spirit actuated.

There's some verse about the bad stuff being burnt away. 1 Cor. 3:15 ... I like that idea better.

 

[civic]

I'm hoping I don't get what I deserve for the BAD part. If so, I am "toast". Aside: AMP has note saying "bad" could be "inferior"
I'm just hoping to be rewarded for the good part that the Spirit actuated.

There's some verse about the bad stuff being burnt away. 1 Cor. 3:15 ... I like that idea better.

They are both the same event for believers , 1 Cor 3 and 2 Cor 5.

 

[fastfredy0]

We shouldn't Fear...

Revelation 1:17 When I [John] saw Him, I fell at His feet as if dead. But He laid His right hand on me and said, Do not be afraid!
My record is not as good as John's.
.... and always the chance you hear "I never knew you" ...

 

[fastfredy0]

Revelation 1:17 When I [John] saw Him, I fell at His feet as if dead. But He laid His right hand on me and said, Do not be afraid!
My record is not as good as John's.
.... and always the chance you hear "I never knew you" ...

@civic @ReverendRV ... I'll assume your LIKE was for Rev 1:17 and not the last statement (giggle)