Free Will ~yet again.

[Rella]

Once again, I do not understand Rella’s thesis statement.


That’s a mouthful. While I don’t know any Cslvinists or fully understand TULIP, it seems to me that semantics turns off many a casual observer.

‘Total Depravity‘ is an esoteric term, which has a meaning outside common understanding of words. Surely, man cannot be too bad with 9 B people, with greater material wealth than before where obesity, rather than starvations, troubles many countries. But this is not how Calvinists use the term, is it?

FYI

I am 1000% against Calvin. Period

 

[Ritajanice]

I am sorry, but that is just not true.

I can remember as a non believer trying to communicate with God...I was dead in sin...it wasn’t until I was regenerated that I knew this.. ,that was why there was no communication from God, because my spirit was not Alive in Christ ..it had to be regenerated, then could I start my journey in the spirit.

You can believe what you like Jim...how does God communicate with us through our intelligence having not being regenerated?

Well, yes. Once we have been born again and have received the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit, we are His.

That is not how God says we are Born Again @JIM ?

Where in the world did you get that bit of nonsense.

What nonsense?

Did God communicate with Adam, did He communicate with Cain, did He communicate with Noah, did He communicate

Before the fall yes, then they went out of his presence did they not, they lost that spirit connection to God once they sinned?

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?"
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

To be saved is to be born again.

To be Born Again then we are saved from eternal damnation

To be born again is to be saved. Being born again and being saved is experienced at one and the same instant in time.

Yes, by divine revelation we are Born Again.

God spent about 2500 years producing a book that tells you everything you need to know about Jesus. There are many, many, many people who know about Jesus who have not been regenerated, probably more of those than who have been regenerated.

You know the story of Jesus by reading the penned word...they know him in their own understanding of course, but they need to know him in their spirit?..that’s where we know God by divine revelation.

We must know God in our spirit, otherwise he does not recognise us...

 

[Carbon]

FYI

I am 1000% against Calvin. Period

Why? What did Calvin do to you?

 

[JIM]

No, Calvinism does not. When someone hears that they are a sinner, hell-bound, and the only way out is through believing in Jesus. If someone does not understand this either they are hearing it is a language not their own or they are mentally challenged.

Yes and that before being regenerated.

But understanding that is not what saves.

God saves. Believing in Jesus is faith. We are saved by grace through faith.

What Calvin actually said is this: "The assent which we give to the Divine word, as I have partly suggested before, and shall again more largely repeat, is from the heart rather than the head, and from the affections rather than understanding.

Faith includes the three elements of knowledge, assent and trust, the stress usually being laid on trust.

C Hodge said, "The faith which is required for salvation, is an act of the whole soul, of the understanding, of the heart, and of the will."

Yes and it is through that faith that we are saved by grace.

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Dead in your trespasses and sin and then made alive by God is regeneration. That is being born again. That is being born from above. As It says, that happened having been buried with him in baptism and raised with Him through faith. Born again through faith.

 

[Rella]

Fair enough.

I find it amazing that so many are afraid to say which church they attend. I wonder if they are ashamed?

And you?

I am Peters Creek Evangelical Presbyterian Church. At least they get my offerings if not me in body!

 

[Rella]

Why? What did Calvin do to you?

Told me if I am one of the reprobate I am lost, without telling us who God pre chose.

 

[JIM]

Fair enough.

I find it amazing that so many are afraid to say which church they attend. I wonder if they are ashamed?

It is not pertinent to the discussion. I attend a church about 15 miles from my home. We, as a congregation of believers, profess to be non-denominational, but I am not sure most who attend even know that to be the case or know what it really means.

 

[Rella]

I believe that the Jeremiah statement of the new covenant is a metaphorical statement. I believe that it is certainly related to being born again.

I don't.

I don't disagree with that.

 

[Ritajanice]

od saves. Believing in Jesus is faith

I don’t believe it is...we can only believe in Jesus initially, even then God brings us to believe in Jesus.

Then he gifts us the faith to believe in our spirit,/ regenerated/ Born Again...Faith is a gift from God...once we receive that God given gift of faith...it will then start to mature and grow.

Even then I’ve had to understand what faith is....via Gods Spirit...all I knew at the beginning of my walk, that I was Born Again...that was all I knew in my heart/spirit...it’s taken years to grow in the Spirit Of God.

 

[Rella]

Sis, I may have disagreed with you in the past...not now, ..who am I to tell anyone how one is Born Again, you were Born Again by the Spirit Of God...I class you as my Sister in Christ

Yes. My spirit born again by the Spirit of God. I knew it but never understood it....

And you well know who drilled that into my brain ...(he will remain nameless).

I shouldn’t worry about it...I’ve also been accused of not being Born Again, not on this forum....we know we are in our heart, that’s all that matters...

Over the years I have had 11 or 12 tell me I was not nor would be saved.... A person on another forum told me I had to ... I'll rephrase for decorum and no offense to anyone... get a backbone, or get off the forums. They were tearing me apart.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes. My spirit born again by the Spirit of God. I knew it but never understood it...

Same here Sis, I also knew I was Born Again but did not understand anything about it...only that I was Born Again like you.

 

[JIM]

ou know the story of Jesus by reading the penned word...they know him in their own understanding of course, but they need to know him in their spirit?..

Please tell us the difference between knowing Jesus in their own understanding and knowing Jesus in their spirit. And please be specific.

 

[JIM]

I don't.

You don't what? Believe that it is metaphorical? Or you don't believe it is related to regeneration?

 

[Ritajanice]

Please tell us the difference between knowing Jesus in their own understanding and knowing Jesus in their spirit. And please be specific.

The natural man doesn’t know God in their spirit....they can only read the story of Jesus from their natural senses.

You know all about Jesus in your spirit, when we have been regenerated/ Born Again/ Born of Gods seed...it’s a Living spirit birth...that can only come by divine revelation...only the Holy Spirit can bring our spirit to life in Christ...other than that, it’s alienated from God as it’s in darkness and sin.our spirit must be regenerated by the Living Spirit Of God.. @JIM

 

[JIM]

I don’t believe it is...we can only believe in Jesus initially, even then God brings us to believe in Jesus.

Believing in something or someone is the biblical definition of having faith in something or someone.

And saving faith is not a gift.

 

[Ritajanice]

Believing in something or someone is the biblical definition of having faith in something or someone.

How can you have faith in God without him gifting you faith ?

How would you even know him?...just by reading the penned word?

How could I believe in God in my spirit without it being regenerated.?

And saving faith is not a gift.

Is saving faith biblical?

I’m not sure what you mean by saving faith?

I think I’ve spoken of saving faith, I don’t fully understand what it means to be honest?

 

[JIM]

The natural man doesn’t know God in their spirit....they can only read the story of Jesus from their natural senses.

You know all about Jesus in your spirit, when we have been regenerated/ Born Again/ Born of Gods seed...it’s a Living spirit birth...that can only come by divine revelation...only the Holy Spirit can bring our spirit to life in Christ...other than that, it’s alienated from God as it’s in darkness and sin.our spirit must be regenerated by the Living Spirit Of God.. @JIM

You didn't even explain what it means to "know in your spirit", any differences involve.

Again -- Please tell us the difference between knowing Jesus in their own understanding and knowing Jesus in their spirit. And please be specific.

 

[Carbon]

Yes and that before being regenerated.

Well, of course.

God saves. Believing in Jesus is faith. We are saved by grace through faith.

Yes, we are saved by grace.
Through faith.

But without getting saved by grace first, we cannot have faith.

Yes and it is through that faith that we are saved by grace.

No, scripture doesn't say that. You did.

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

No offence intended Jm, but think on this passage considering what I said.

Dead in your trespasses and sin and then made alive by God is regeneration.

Okay. While you were dead in them.

That is being born again. That is being born from above. As It says, that happened having been buried with him in baptism and raised with Him through faith. Born again through faith.

 

[Carbon]

And you?

I attend the Trinity Reformed church. It's congregation as far as church government is concerned.

I am Peters Creek Evangelical Presbyterian Church. At least they get my offerings if not me in body!View attachment 864

 

[JIM]

Is saving faith biblical?

I’m not sure what you mean by saving faith?

Saving faith is the faith though which one is saved by grace (Eph 2:8). It doesn't get more biblical than that.