Free Will ~yet again.

[Ritajanice]

I know she doesn't mean the same as me.

I certainly don’t understand the rebirth as you do..

I understand it by divine revelation just as the penned word says.

 

[JIM]

You didn’t answer my questions.

Spirit gives birth to spirit/ Born Of God’s seed/ Born Of The Spirit...that is by divine revelation...The Living Holy Spirit witnessing that truth to our spirit.

The spirit birth is a Living birth..it’s not something you can read into being.

You understood no one thing that I said, or you have simply ignored or rejected it.

 

[Ritajanice]

You understood no one thing that I said, or you have simply ignored or rejected it.

Sorry, forgot this was freewill thread..post deleted.

 

[Ritajanice]

Hey Jim, we’re off topic again..let’s be respectful to admin and the poster who started the op.

I thought this was a different thread...it’s about freewill @JIM ...

Ask me these questions on another thread please..

Or maybe start a thread about the meaning of being Born Again?

 

[JIM]

I don’t understand your own understanding of what being Born Again means.

Yes, I know that.

What do you think divine revelation means?

See my reply #59

How did the Holy Spirit reveal himself to you?

In my case it was through my parents who both good Christian people. Later, of course, it came from many people, our minister, my Sunday School teachers, and others. But as I grew and studied, God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were revealed to me through God's word, the Bible

 

[JIM]

Hey Jim, we’re off topic again..let’s be respectful to admin and the poster who started the op.

I thought this was a different thread...it’s about freewill @JIM ...

Ask me these questions on another thread please..

Yes, it is off topic. I will stop this line of posting.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, I know that.

See my reply #59

In my case it was through my parents who both good Christian people. Later, of course, it came from many people, our minister, my Sunday School teachers, and others. But as I grew and studied, God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were revealed to me through God's word, the Bible

Ok, thanks for explaining...please see my last post...I forgot this was a freewill thread..

 

[Rella]

I don't comment on whether or not she has been born again. But I am fully convinced that if she has been born again, she really hasn't a clue about how or when it all came about.

I am certain she is.

And by a different avenue then you or I. She was pricked and convicted by the Holy spirit before she ever owned a bible and before she ever read one. From that point she has been in constant growth. Growth needed because the flesh wars against the spiritual. You know that.

Does that make her less born again then those who were dunked before hand in water being baptised in the names of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? I thought you are not of the belief that baptism saves.... so what say you about what constitutes a proper born again experience.

I do not know of a single apostle that got "Picked" by God the same way Saul who became Paul did. And God used him far and wide for His teachings. He was apart from the way the others were chosen.

Ritajanice may not have a clue about why it came about, but I am certain she knows how or when it all came about. While mine admittedly was " A work in progress"

I just was reading Jack Cotrell on

Are Sinners “Begotten” to New Life Before Being “Born Again” in Baptism?​

And got moved onto

Zwingli's Distinctive Doctrines.

I digress

 

[Ritajanice]

Ritajanice may not have a clue about why it came about, but I am certain she knows how or when it all came about. While mine admittedly was " A work in progress"

To be honest I do know what it was about....only I can’t share...I just know why he chose me for his purpose and plan, ..I was chosen to do his will in a certain area, about a month after I became Born Again..

Did I understand what he revealed to my heart at the time, no I did not, I’ve had to grow and mature in the spirit to understand all that the Spirit revealed to my heart....and I have through walking in faith and being brought to believe in my head what was revealed to my heart...it was my head that doubted, it has now caught up with my heart if that makes sense.....His will, will be done through me, and no one or anything can thwart it....I’m just waiting and resting in Him...with full assurance by the Holy Spirit that it will come to pass...we best stay on topic...I just felt the need to answer you...hope that’s ok admin...

 

[Rella]

I am beginning to think you don't know the meaning of divine revelation. We are born again by divine action, the action of God. That is not divine revelation.

Guess what boys and girls....

NO TWO PEOPLE on here agree with how we are "Born Again" Why do you suppose that is.

Shall was all call ourselves descendants of Nicodemus???????????????????????/

@JIM

What is this divine action, the action of God.????

You do not believe that you would have a revelation once you are born again?
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
And Nick knew not of what he was talking.
Would this divine action be "“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.... " "“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."" “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."

This is certainly affirmative action of being born again... though you will disagree.

How many people do you know had this action?

The spirt is born again of Spirit. Period.......

 

[Rella]

Sorry, forgot this was freewill thread..post deleted.

Dont do that.... Freewill and all other ideas welcomed.

 

[Ritajanice]

Guess what boys and girls....

NO TWO PEOPLE on here agree with how we are "Born Again" Why do you suppose that is.

Sis, I may have disagreed with you in the past...not now, ..who am I to tell anyone how one is Born Again, you were Born Again by the Spirit Of God...I class you as my Sister in Christ.

I shouldn’t worry about it...I’ve also been accused of not being Born Again, not on this forum....we know we are in our heart, that’s all that matters...

 

[JIM]

I am certain she is.

And by a different avenue then you or I. She was pricked and convicted by the Holy spirit before she ever owned a bible and before she ever read one. From that point she has been in constant growth. Growth needed because the flesh wars against the spiritual. You know that.

Does that make her less born again then those who were dunked before hand in water being baptised in the names of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? I thought you are not of the belief that baptism saves.... so what say you about what constitutes a proper born again experience.

I do not know of a single apostle that got "Picked" by God the same way Saul who became Paul did. And God used him far and wide for His teachings. He was apart from the way the others were chosen.

Ritajanice may not have a clue about why it came about, but I am certain she knows how or when it all came about. While mine admittedly was " A work in progress"

I just was reading Jack Cotrell on

Are Sinners “Begotten” to New Life Before Being “Born Again” in Baptism?​

And got moved onto

Zwingli's Distinctive Doctrines.

I digress

All those who hold to some form of Calvinistic or Reformed Theology reject any action by God, Father, Son or Holy Spirit, in the life of the sinner before regeneration. On the other hand I believe that the Holy Spirit is active in the life of the sinner before regeneration. In some cases it may be for very long times.

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Keep reading Cottrell. I don't agree with him on everything, but I think his soteriology is spot on. But I think you knew that.

 

[Alive]

All those who hold to some form of Calvinistic or Reformed Theology reject any action by God, Father, Son or Holy Spirit, in the life of the sinner before regeneration

I am not aware of this being so. Seems to me a static appraisal.
I am convinced the Lord preserved my life for years before regeneration.

 

[Arial]

Once again, I do not understand Rella’s thesis statement.


That’s a mouthful. While I don’t know any Cslvinists or fully understand TULIP, it seems to me that semantics turns off many a casual observer.

‘Total Depravity‘ is an esoteric term, which has a meaning outside common understanding of words. Surely, man cannot be too bad with 9 B people, with greater material wealth than before where obesity, rather than starvations, troubles many countries. But this is not how Calvinists use the term, is it?

It is a term used for the purpose of making the acronym TULIP to condense the doctrines of grace. It was done a long,long time ago, and not by Calvin. It was done as a counter to the remonstrance of Arminius five points. I am not the first or the last to admit that the words used in order to spell tulip are misleading or can be, as to what is actually in doctrines.

It is irrelevant what "turns off" the casual observer. It isn't as though these doctrines of grace have not been clarified over and over on every forum. This forum is no exception. Those "casual observers" never give heed to these clarifications but stick valiantly and sometimes violently, to their casual observances as though they know more about what they did not bother to learn anything about, than the person who has spent countless hours exploring the doctrines from with the Bible. They do not bother to find out what the actual doctrines are teaching, so that they can measure what is being said in them from the Bible itself (and from a neutral position not one of presupposition.) And yet they continue to argue against it.

The doctrine in what is by acronym Total Depravity does not declare that all people are as depraved as they possible could be all of the time. It does not declare that man is unable to do anything good. It is dealing with the condition of sinful mankind before a holy God. Because of this condition, which man cannot change, what follows in the tulip are the doctrines of grace. We are saved by the grace of God. To put it another way. Because T is true and we cannot change our stripes, election to save must be by God, which is not conditioned on anything of merit that he has done or will do, in the person, but only His will. And since not all people are saved, the atonement of Christ must be limited in some sense, and exegetes that from the Bible, which results in how then is grace applied, and remain consistent with what has already been mined. And so on through the acronym.

But that is really a thread of its own. Check out the Doctrines of Grace board if you are not stuck on arriving at your beliefs casually.

 

[JIM]

Would this divine action be "“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.... " "“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."" “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."

I believe that the Jeremiah statement of the new covenant is a metaphorical statement. I believe that it is certainly related to being born again.

This is certainly affirmative action of being born again... though you will disagree.

I don't disagree with that.

 

[JIM]

I am not aware of this being so. Seems to me a static appraisal.

Calvinism asserts that one cannot even understand the truth of the Gospel before being regenerated, let alone respond to it.

I am convinced the Lord preserved my life for years before regeneration.

I am not sure what that even means in reality. But if you want to think that is so, I do not have any objection. I don't think there is scripture to say one way or the other. Does anyone, who God foreknows will believe in Him, die before that happens? That would raise some interesting discussions about God's foreknowledge. What does "will believe" mean in the situation where one didn't believe before he died?

 

[Alive]

Calvinism asserts that one cannot even understand the truth of the Gospel before being regenerated, let alone respond to it.

I am not sure what that even means in reality. But if you want to think that is so, I do not have any objection. I don't think there is scripture to say one way or the other. Does anyone, who God foreknows will believe in Him, die before that happens? That would raise some interesting discussions about God's foreknowledge. What does "will believe" mean in the situation where one didn't believe before he died?

This doesn’t represent what I wrote. I said, I believe the Lord preserved my life before He regenerated me.
Neither did I cite scripture, however, pretty sure I could provide some to suggest so.
I did many very dangerous things and looking back, sure seems He did.
Worth arguing? Nope.
I kinda think He sent an angel a few times to protect one of His elect, before the time appointed for regeneration.
;-)

 

[JIM]

This doesn’t represent what I wrote. I said, I believe the Lord preserved my life before He regenerated me.

And I am sorry, but I still don't understand what that even means. There has never been anyone, so stated, that had died before being regenerated.

 

[Ritajanice]

All those who hold to some form of Calvinistic or Reformed Theology reject any action by God, Father, Son or Holy Spirit, in the life of the sinner before regeneration

I certainly do not reject that.

Throughout my life everything was being worked out by God, to bring me to Jesus.....he works in the hearts of sinners ,how else could he bring us to Jesus, he can’t indwell our heart, not until our sins are forgiven and we become Born Again by His Living Spirit.

He prepares all of his children in their heart to receive His Spirit, just as they were chosen and predestined to before the foundation of the world ..

My thoughts/ testimony and belief.