Free Will ~yet again.

[Ritajanice]

I must assume that you do not agree with it. It is incompatible with what you believe.

Well, we all believe differently..

Gods will can never be thwarted..do you believe that?

 

[JIM]

Well, we all believe differently..

How can that be if what we believe comes by divine revelation from the Holy Spirit?

Gods will can never be thwarted..do you believe that?

Of course. But then what one thinks is God's will does seem to be up for grabs.

 

[Ritajanice]

How can that be if what we believe comes by divine revelation from the Holy Spirit?

Not understanding....how else would Gods will be revealed to us?

Did you understand my post?

Gods will can’t be thwarted, I thought I made that clear in my post.

Divine revelation needs to be understood in our spirit/ heart....we grow in the spirit, then we align what we receive/ hear with scripture.
How else can we be Born Of God’s seed if not by divine revelation?

It’s a Living spirit birth is it not?

I have a Living Spirit relationship with God...do you?

Or is your relationship with the penned word @JIM ?

Of course. But then what one thinks is God's will does seem to be up for grabs.

thinking isn’t how God reveals his will.

His will is revealed to our heart/ spirit.

 

[JIM]

Not understanding....how else would Gods will be revealed to us?

God, through the Prophets and Apostles by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, produced His written revelation. We call that the Bible. God's will is presented there. Nothing else beyond that is necessary.

Did you understand my post

Yes.

 

[Ritajanice]

God, through the Prophets and Apostles by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, produced His written revelation. We call that the Bible. God's will is presented there. Nothing else beyond that is necessary.

Yes.

Sorry, Gods will came to me by divine revelation.

The Living Holy Spirit, then the penned word backs up what I received by Living divine revelation...Gods will is presented to our heart/ spirit, when we become Born Again by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit.....he testifies Gods truth to our heart, that’s how I knew I was Born Again...the rest I know has been revealed to my heart by the Holy Spirit.

So, I disagree with your post...we need God’s Living witness who comes to us by divine revelation ( Living).

Spirit gives birth to spirit.....that is by divine revelation.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, that’s a Living spirit birth backed up by the penned word.

The penned word does not make our spirit Born Again....everything from God is revealed to our heart, then it’s checked with the penned word...

We are spirit children ( Living) we aren’t bible knowledge children....we communicate with God via our spirit, that’s how we know we are Born Again.

Our spirit is Born Again by the Living Holy Spirit..just as His word says.

 

[JIM]

Sorry, Gods will came to me by divine revelation.

Why would I or anyone believe that? Why would God expect me to believe that? Why should I give any credence to anything you say you know about God's will that "came by divine revelation"?

 

[Mr GLee]

Why would I or anyone believe that? Why would God expect me to believe that? Why should I give any credence to anything you say you know about God's will that "came by divine revelation"?

Why other than he gives freely to dying mankind with no cost on our behalf . .the faith or power as a labor of His love needed for us to believe Him.

Roman 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged

 

[JIM]

Why other than he gives freely to dying mankind with no cost on our behalf . .the faith or power as a labor of His love needed for us to believe Him.

Roman 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged

That has nothing whatsoever to do with what ritajanice thinks she has received by divine revelation.

 

[Mr GLee]

That has nothing whatsoever to do with what ritajanice thinks she has received by divine revelation.

Hi I would offer.

All believers receive by divine revelation from the living word .Christ in us. He is simply is not adding to the perfect (sola scriptura)

 

[JIM]

Hi I would offer.

All believers receive by divine revelation from the living word .Christ in us. He is simply is not adding to the perfect (sola scriptura)

No, all who read the Bible have received what God produced by divine revelation. How any interpret that is not divine revelation.

 

[Ritajanice]

Why would I or anyone believe that? Why would God expect me to believe that? Why should I give any credence to anything you say you know about God's will that "came by divine revelation"?

All that I explained is biblical.

How can the Bible make your spirit Born Again?

You are free to believe what you like.

I believe the Living Spirit Of God, who testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....

Testifies......speaks to our spirit, we are Born Of God’s seed.....that’s a Living miracle rebirth...our spirit is reborn....by the Spirit Of God.

You can believe whatever you like...I believe Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit, who testifies Gods truth to my heart/ spirit.

As long as I know in my spirit that I’m Born Again which I do 100% ...it doesn’t concern me what you or anyone else thinks or believes...I will NEVER deny how I became Born Again because it upsets you or anyone else.

 

[Ritajanice]

That has nothing whatsoever to do with what ritajanice thinks she has received by divine revelation.

How else can one be Born Again..if not by the Living Holy Spirit?...do you understand that Gods Spirit is Alive and Active in us?

Whose working in our hearts/ spirit every day?

The Holy Spirit works in us by peeling away our sinful characteristics and replacing them with godly characteristics. His work in us makes us more and more like Jesus. Just as Acts 1:8 mentions, the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to be effective witnesses for Jesus Christ


The Bible doesn’t work in our heart/ spirit..only the Spirit can do that ,all in God’s word...

The Spirit indwells our heart/ spirit.

If you are a Christian, then the bible calls you God's temple because “God's Spirit dwells in you” (1 Corinthians 3:16). As children of God we literally possess the Spirit of God inside of us.

Hence Born Of God’s seed/ Born Again/ Born Again of imperishable seed/ Spirit gives birth to spirit....all means the same thing...a supernatural birth of our spirit that only the Spirit of God can do..

 

[Arial]

Let's get back on topic folks. See OP.

 

[Ritajanice]

Sorry admin, got a bit defensive and carried away.

Maybe someone here can explain to me, how they “ freely” chose to be Born Of The Spirit?

Also how are we free to do what we want once we’re Born Again?

 

[Arial]

Sorry admin, got a bit defensive and carried away.

Maybe someone here can explain to me, how they “ freely” chose to be Born Of The Spirit?

Also how are we free to do what we want once we’re Born Again?

It is easy enough to do. No problem.

As to your question:

They can't anymore than we had any say so in our first birth----which was in Adam, the man of dust. There is a reason God presents it in terms of birth.. That can be seen in the scriptures such as Romans 5:12-14.


12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men[a] because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

John tells us in John 1:12-13 that those who believe were 13. born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jesus tells us in John 3:1-15 That we cannot see or enter the kingdom of God unless we have been born again of the Spirit. And the Spirit is like the wind in that we cannot see it and we do not know where it came from or where it is going. So too it is with the Spirit, He brings about the new birth into Christ where God wills.

It is mentioned by Peter in a way that is a given in the understanding of those he is writing to. 1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be they God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his gear mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hipe through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled and unfading , kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

It is the new birth that brings us to life when we were dead in our sins, and this is done by God. Eph 2: 1-10.

 

[Rella]

Yes, Yes. "WILL" is the ability to choose amongst options.
Now the question is: "What is the FREE part in the definition of FREE WILL? With that definition you have the foundation for further discussion. What determines our WILL to choose amongst options?

Would that not be the same as imparted on Adam and Eve?

God made a grader for him/them.

In the middle of the garden were two trees, One forbidden and the other was the tree of life.

If Adam had not had "free will" IOW the ability to choose something for himself.

If Adam once made was so predestined to be the father of mankind as we know him and therefore was the reason for his creation with his eternity secured... why would Yahweh have made something, and then said... don't touch and certainly do not eat.

If you do not have free will and are able to select or avoid that which God has said.... then that forbidden tree was not of a necessity.

Got questions says....

God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him. Adam and Eve were free to do anything they wanted, except eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:16-17, “And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’” If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice.

 

[Ritajanice]

hey can't anymore than we had any say so in our first birth----which was in Adam, the man of dust. There is a reason God presents it in terms of birth.. That can be seen in the scriptures such as Romans 5:12-14.

Exactly, even we can’t explain how God does it..I mean we have the testifying with our spirit..yet...we can’t see him bringing our spirit Alive in Christ.
..we receive the gift of Faith and because it came from God it will grow and mature in Christ...
That’s why I have never seen a free- willer explain how they chose of their own freewill to become Born Again.

 

[Rella]

I just found your post interesting from your perspective, I’m not saying I agree with it.

A Born Again imo will always be obedient to the will of God...I mean God showed me his will for an area of my life as a new babe.

As best as we can.

YOU WERE selected for a purpose. Of that I have zero doubts. You had an experience that most people never do. You share something in common with Jeremiah and others from the Holy book that were "selected"

Do you doubt the sincerity of the young pastors and clergy when they take their vows after seminary and become ordained ministers?

Or even those young priests who swear their vow of chastity?

How many will tell you that they "got the calling" and truly believed that they were all about gods work only to be caught up years and decades later in alcoholism, and even affairs. They did not set out to be this way. But it happened. And these would have told you... perhaps still believe they were also born again.

I love you as my sister in Christ.

I love you as my friend.

Your testimony is beyond comprehension to some and magnificently wonderful to others who wish they had shared what you did.

Your ability and witnessing so great but you need to understand that somewhere deep within you is that free will spark that
Adam had... at one time. He made a choice to follow his wife. You have made a choice... your choice.... every time you say
as you did below

"but, it was the hardest journey of my life to get to the place I’m at today...I couldn’t have done it without the Holy Spirit, who keeps me on that narrow path."

You did not start out ready to obey.... did you.

You say it was "hardest journey of my life to get to the place I’m at today"

That , my friend, is what I call free will. If you had the spiritual born again experience and had difficulties in your growth.... that was because the free will was making it hard for you to do what your heart wanted.

Didn't Jesus tell us...in John 14:16-17

“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you."

That Spirit of truth.... is the Holy Spirit.

Why, if there was a danger that they might fall away would this need to be done? Because they all were born with free will.

He guides each of us and when we falter in our growth... be it early on or later.... It is He who gets us back on that straight and narrow.

And with that I shall say May the Lord bless you and keep you...

( at the risk of many who might come along and say now woman has a right to bless) (I thought about that and it was the Holy Spirit that gave the OK)

​

It scared me silly, I didn’t understand it at the time, again it came by divine revelation, therefore I ignorantly rejected it..that was nearly 33 yrs ago.....God knew exactly what I would do when he revealed his will to my heart....it was all part of his plan...it’s a very long story, well , I am now 100% being obedient to his will, there is so much to this story, I’ve cut it extremely short...I’m 100% in harmony to his will,( my will is in line with his will) .

Gods will can never be thwarted...now I’m in a good place and am enjoying his will coming to fruition, mind Blowing stuff....but, it was the hardest journey of my life to get to the place I’m at today...I couldn’t have done it without the Holy Spirit, who keeps me on that narrow path.
..my relationship with God is very much Alive and Active...the Holy Spirit indwells my spirit, working everything out according to God’s plan....it’s all about God and His Living Power....that gives Life to my spirit.
Just my opinion/testimony and belief.

 

[Rella]

I must assume that you do not agree with it. It is incompatible with what you believe.

@JIM

Ritajanice WAS picked by God. If you read enough of her postings you will see she tells the story over a number of threads.

I have no doubt in my mind she was. Would that we all be like she..........

But she has little understanding on things like free will, which to my mind is totally agreeable with being truly selected.

 

[Arial]

Adam and Eve were free to do anything they wanted, except eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

That is going a step too far and adding to the Bible. They were not free to do anything they wanted. They were free to tend to the creation and eat of whatever tree was there. They were not free for example to kill the animals or neglect His creation that they were put in charge of.

If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be free, they had to have a choice.

The choice was given before the fall. They were created in the image and likeness of God, therefore had ability of choice. We still have that ability after the fall but the disobedience now imprisoned us in sin. We do not sin all the time. But it is impossible for us to never sin. That is a will that is moved sometimes by sinful desires that we act on. It is not free to never sin.