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Free will--a Calvinistic proposition?

Yes...a person must make a decision to be unresistant to the Lord before He regenerates them...otherwise when He regenerates them He does so while they are still resistant and makes them unresistant against their will.
Do you have any doctrines of God at all? Where do you find anywhere in the Bible God being dependant upon His creature to do anything, or asking for their permission before He does it? Anywhere?! If you are going to make stuff up at least make it sound a little bit believable.
 
Why not? Who would you look to?
Are you serious? Are you really that narrowly read theologically? It would certainly seem to be the case.
 
I'm glad you are Saved by Grace, so are we; Grace is one of the 5-Solas. We have this much in common, right?

We have more Calvinism in common than even this; isn't it true that Grace is the Unmerited Favor of God?
I do not believe that you are lost spiritually just because you hold to some false concepts of Calvinism. :D

I would add here that God could impose a myriad of conditions for receiving the gift of salvation and it would still be unmerited. The only way that salvation could be merited would be to obey God completely and perfectly throughout an entire life. Only in that case could it be considered merited.
 
No, that is your accusation as a servant of the accuser.
No, that is your accusation as a servant of the accuser.... of the brethren. From the beginning of the last two days' posts you've been accusing posters individually and Calvinists en masse, and you've been doing it baselessly, and when asked for evidence we're all told to look in the posts and hundreds of posts have been made and you have not once proven a single accusation. These are the marks of the accuser of the brethren and father of lies. Even when you say, "servant of the accuser" you leave out the important "of our brethren"! Half-truths are not truths at all and lies of omission are just as wrong as lies of commission.


  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinists teach God's choice to save is arbitrary? If so then post it.
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinism denies free will? If so, then post it.
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinists do not uniformly share core beliefs that separates us from other soteriologies? If so, then post it.
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinists are the only ones who subscribe to Total Depravity? If so, then post it.
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinism teaches the gospel is available to all? If so the post it.
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinism teaches a person goes to hell because s/he is not one of the elect? If so the post it.
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinism teaches a lack of assurance? If so, then post it.
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinism teaches people are not responsible for choosing Jesus? If so, then post it?
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinism teaches people are accountable to God? If so, then post it?
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinism distorts scripture? If so the post it.
  • Have you got a single bit of objectively verifiable evidence proving Calvinism must be monolithic? If so the post it.

Post it! Post it now. Let there be no further delays. Every single one of those bullet points stems from explicit claims you made about Calvinists and not a single one of those claims was ever evidenced, much less proven correct. Show everyone participant and lurking you have some objectively verifiable evidence for what you've claimed.

If not, then understand you are known by what you've done and haven't done. Hiding behind your claim of salvation merits nothing when you behave like you have. Anyone can disagree with Calvinism, but the disagreement is no justification for any of the baseless falsehoods you've posted.
 
Are you serious? Are you really that narrowly read theologically? It would certainly seem to be the case.
No, she's asking you for your input about your sources, and you've just wasted everyone's time dodging the question when a more positive, functional, contributing, and conversation-furthering alternative was possible. Just answer the question asked. Look at Post 224, too. Commentary provided but it didn't answer the questions asked! Show @justbyfaith a synergist can carry the synergist's side of the conversation well. He could benefit from your example.
 
No, she's asking you for your input about your sources, and you've just wasted everyone's time dodging the question when a more positive, functional, contributing, and conversation-furthering alternative was possible.
Well, I am sorry for wasting your time. I suggest that when you see anything posted by me from here on out, you simply skip over it. That way you won't have wasted your time.
 
My statement takes John 6:44 into account. I have said that a person can make a free will decision to receive or reject Christ at whatever juncture that they are being drawn to Christ.

Because being drawn does not guarantee being given. Otherwise, Universalism is the teaching because of John 12:32.

Being drawn to Christ overcomes inability...while it does not guarantee that the person will receive Christ.

It presents an opportunity in which they become able to receive Christ.
You ignored the following evidence before (I know you've been busy) so I will try again ...
If people's wills are free to believe in Christ or not believe ... how come the empirical evidence shows that children tend heavily to follow the religion of their parents? Like, Muslims children rarely come to saving knowledge of Christ. How can that be true and at the same time your statement be true that God gives everyone Free Will to believe or not believe leading to salvation? Why do Muslim and atheist children not come to Christ in the same numbers as children of Christian parents?????

Source of data: https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...us-upbringing-and-current-religious-identity/

If people wills are free to believe in Christ or not believe then why are not 50% of the population saved. What is tipping the scales of FREE WILL? If the FREE WILL scale is being tipped how can you can it "FREE WILL" as something is taking away freedom.
 
And, everyone is drawn at some point (John 12:32).
Premise 1: Faith cometh by hearing
Premise 2: Not everyone hears the gospel
Conclusion: No everyone is drawn to Christ

If some people have no chance to know Christ which is a prerequisite of salvation .... how can you say everyone has FREE WILL when it is impossible to will leading to salvation?
 
Premise 1: Faith cometh by hearing
Premise 2: Not everyone hears the gospel
Conclusion: No everyone is drawn to Christ

If some people have no chance to know Christ which is a prerequisite of salvation .... how can you say everyone has FREE WILL when it is impossible to will leading to salvation?
Perfect...
 
Therefore, Calvinism is to a very great extent based on the acronym TULIP.
By one definition of Calvinism. You do realize that there is no such thing as “Calvinism”, right. John Calvin did not start a denomination or a school of theology that bears his name. When one says “Calvinism” and really means “Reformed Theology” it is a very different thing than when one says “Calvinism” and means monergistic (TULIP) soteriology. As a Particular Baptist, I would completely agree with Monergism (TULIP) and completely disagree with Reformed Theology (Presbyterian) baptism of babies as part of Covenant Theology.
 
John 6:44 specifically says that no one can come to Christ unless they are drawn...not that being drawn to Christ guarantees that they will come to Christ.
Technically, John 6:44 does say that being drawn to Christ does guarantee being raised by Christ at the last day. There are other verses in that area of John 6 that equate “the will of God” and “drawn to Christ” and “believing in Christ” and “the Father giving to the Son” as all interrelated and inseparable.
 
and vice versa.
A collection of theological doctrines from the 1500’s originating from treatises published in Latin COULD NOT POSSIBLY be based upon an English acronym (T.U.L.I.P.) created in the early 1900’s.
Please stop making such nonsensical claims. It is definitely NOT vice versa. Calvinism inspired TULIP and predates it by centuries.
 
Technically, John 6:44 does say that being drawn to Christ does guarantee being raised by Christ at the last day. There are other verses in that area of John 6 that equate “the will of God” and “drawn to Christ” and “believing in Christ” and “the Father giving to the Son” as all interrelated and inseparable.
The main problem is that people don't use All Scripture to come to Good Doctrine. It doesn't matter if the Verse says or doesn't say we will be raised up on the Last Day, since another Verse says we will be. ~ Sola Scriptura!

Systematic Theology solves ALL our problems...

Forums have no Clue how to solve things; but have plenty of Clues how to keep the fight alive...
 
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makesends said:
Just by mere serendipitous chance, I was uncaused to happen upon this thread, so I haven't read everything; but somebody said that we are forced to sin, and that obedience is not a choice?
Reply #120
Here is post #120, in which you quote yourself. How does that show what you assert, in which you assume someone saying we are forced to sin and that obedience is not a choice?
JIM said:
Keep in mind that while Paul said that all of sinned, he never said that no one could be free from sinning.
Or were you referring to what @atpollard said in response:
Yes, Paul did. So did Jesus and John.
How does Paul, Jesus and John saying that no one could be free from sinning, translate to, "that we are forced to sin, and that obedience is not a choice."?
 
What it specifically says is


Those drawn to Chris are the ones granted to by the Father. We know this because He says He will raise him up in the last day. YOu simply have an incorrect understanding of what Jesus means by drawn. But here Jesus tells us what He means. Those granted Him by the Father.
No; if those who are drawn are given (it is granted to them of the Father to come to Christ), then all who are drawn are given;

And since all are basically drawn at some point within their lives (John 12:32), the teaching is basically Universalism (which is heresy),

when it is affirmed that all who are drawn are also given.
 
See, that wasn't so hard; was it?

Wouldn't you say that people are Totally Unable to come to Christ on their own, until the Grace which Draws them appears?
That has always been my belief.

Again, all are drawn to Christ at some point (John 12:32).

We can only come to Christ during the window of opportunity that is given to us when we are drawn to Christ.
 
Just stop! You are wrong and you are just arguing. Stop beating a dead horse.
I care about you so I am not going to stop unless someone else puts a stop to me (as all of my posts are rooted in the love of the Lord).

If the horse is dead then I have won the argument and I don't need to beat it anymore...

But if I have to keep beating it so that you may know that it is truly dead, then maybe that is what will be necessary for you to open your eyes and see...
 
That has always been my belief.

Again, all are drawn to Christ at some point (John 12:32).

We can only come to Christ during the window of opportunity that is given to us when we are drawn to Christ.
How about the Aztecs; we're they drawn to Christ?
 
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