Free will--a Calvinistic proposition?

[fastfredy0]

All people are unhindered at whatever juncture that they are being drawn to Christ.

I gave data that contradicts your statement. You've been asked twice to address it but you won't or can't. Maybe you could try the old "it's a mystery" or perhaps you can change your definition of FREE WILL such that it fits the evidence.
I repeat, the irrefutable evidence from data collected shows that the children of Muslims and those who have died who never heard of Christ are hindered from being saved and therefore your definition of FREE WILL contradicts TRUTH!

Given your definition of Free Will is that people at not HINDERED from accepting Christ and given that 7 million killed in the The Holocaust, millions killed by Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. .... how do you explain how these people were not hindered from accepting Christ?

But if God chose certain men out for condemnation (by default), then His condemnation of them is not just and fair;

For God would have created them specifically in order to stoke the fires of hell.
Why then create them with the ability to feel the pain of that unless he is some sort of cosmic sadist?

If God knows, that by creating you, you will end up in hell, how is he not determined you to end up in hell by creating you and therefore by your definition I ask if you feel God is a "cosmic sadist"?

 

[justbyfaith]

It was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by @fastfredy0 that not all people are drawn to Christ.

Maybe you should post the link to the post where you think he did this.

 

[justbyfaith]

I gave data that contradicts your statement. You've been asked twice to address it but you won't or can't. Maybe you could try the old "it's a mystery" or perhaps you can change your definition of FREE WILL such that it fits the evidence.
I repeat, the irrefutable evidence from data collected shows that the children of Muslims and those who have died who never heard of Christ are hindered from being saved and therefore your definition of FREE WILL contradicts TRUTH!

Given your definition of Free Will is that people at not HINDERED from accepting Christ and given that 7 million killed in the The Holocaust, millions killed by Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. .... how do you explain how these people were not hindered from accepting Christ?

They were drawn to Christ at some point and in the being drawn, they were enabled to make an unhindered decision, either for or against Christ.

I do not say that they were unhindered all their lives.

 

[justbyfaith]

If God knows, that by creating you, you will end up in hell, how is he not determined you to end up in hell by creating you and therefore by your definition I ask if you feel God is a "cosmic sadist"?

God is not a cosmic sadist in that His decision to condemn is based on the choice of the sinner to reject Christ.

 

[fastfredy0]

They were drawn to Christ at some point and in the being drawn, they were enabled to make an unhindered decision, either for or against Christ.

I do not say that they were unhindered all their lives.

Well, no sense beating a dead horse. Your answers defy logic.

God is not a cosmic sadist in that His decision to condemn is based on the choice of the sinner to reject Christ.

Seems your definition makes God a "cosmic sadist" as God knows who will not accept Him and He could cause them to never be born but instead knowingly causes them to be born knowing they will spend eternity in hell.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, no sense beating a dead horse. Your answers defy logic.

Seems your definition makes God a "cosmic sadist" as God knows who will not accept Him and He could cause them to never be born but instead knowingly causes them to be born knowing they will spend eternity in hell.

There is also the perspective of time to be taken into consideration.

From that perspective, every sinner has a choice.

So, God created every person knowing that He would give them a choice in the matter of whether or not they will surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and be saved or keep their sin and be damned...

There is no one in this day who does not have that choice (John 12:32).

 

[justbyfaith]

• Job 31:35-37 [ESV] "35 Oh, that I had one to hear me! (Here is my signature! Let the Almighty answer me!) Oh, that I had the indictment written by my adversary! 36 Surely I would carry it on my shoulder; I would bind it on me as a crown; 37 I would give him an account of all my steps; like a prince I would approach him."

How did calling God to answer to men work out for Job?

• Job 38:1-3 [ESV] 1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: 2 "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me."

Asked and answered by Paul:

Romans 9:19-26 [ESV]​

You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" ​

But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'" "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"​

​

If Paul's answer (inspired by the Holy Spirit) isn't good enough, what could I possibly hope to contribute.

Clearly, the people in question "were not His people" but "shall be called the children of the living God."

But they are God's children (the elect)...were they not therefore always His people?...known unto Him from before the foundations of the world?

It goes to show that there was a moment in which they crossed over from death unto life.

I would contend that this is told to us about in scripture (Hosea 14:2, Romans 10:9-13, Acts 2:38-39)

as to when they crossed over from death unto life; and what they did in order to cross over from death unto life.

God is not willing that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4)...and therefore to resist His will would be to reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

If anyone is cast into hell, therefore, it is because they resisted His will.

How much better to surrender to His will and receive Christ?

 

[Arial]

Maybe you should post the link to the post where you think he did this.

Proof you can't and won't follow along but just say whatever clever thing that comes into your head.

Back to my question you didn't answer. You said that FREE WILL is God giving people the ability to decide to believe salvificly in an unhindered manner. I pointed out the empirical stats showing that, for example, the children of Muslim parents rarely turn to Christ compared to say children of Christian parents. The data shows Muslim children are being "hindered" and this invalidates your definition of FREE WILL. You going to explain what is wrong with my assertion??????

You said that FREE WILL is God giving people the ability to decide to believe salvificly in an unhindered manner. Since many people have died and never heard of Christ and since saving faith comes by hearing the gospel I assume you believe these people do not have Free Will because they were hindered from the saving knowledge of Christ. Do you concur?
Many "Free Willies" believe these people can be saved by another method. Maybe your one of them and if so tell us this alternate method. Thx

All people are unhindered at whatever juncture that they are being drawn to Christ.

Children of Christian parents may espouse the religion of their parents but that does not constitute being born again.

The above was your response to that post. To which I replied

It was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by @fastfredy0 that not all people are drawn to Christ. So why do you repeat that they are? And having done so state a non sequitur that does not address what he said.

Post #318, #319, #320. The post in which you ask me to link is #322.

 

[justbyfaith]

I would simply say to you that @fastfredy0 proved nothing in Calvinism by the post in question.

That is why I asked you to provide a link. Because what you think was steadfast proof, simply is not.

(Since I did not see the post in question as being steadfast proof, I asked you for the link to a post that maybe did carry some sort of proof.

Instead you referred me to the same post.)

You may think that it is, but you are not seeing the issues with clarity,