For those who deny the Lord Jesus is God: The Father or the Lord Jesus?

[Mr GLee]

I'm sorry, but I am not sure what your point is.

None of what I oferd aplies to the Son of man jesus .He is not the Lord of lords .H Our Holy Father is Almighty God

Any reference to something being created by God with Jesus has the word "through" (referring to instrumentality) appended to it.

For example, Revelation 3:14 says that the creation is "God's creation" while the "Amen, the faithful and true witness" is the beginning of it. It means Jesus was created.

Rev 3
14And to the messenger of the church in Laodicea write:
These things says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of God’s creation.

Jesus the son of man was not created before his birth Bethlehem ,
Yes the faithful Creator *not the Son of man) "let there be" and it was truly God good. The Son of man can create nothing he our brother in the Lord not the Creator.

God is not a man

 

[Fred]

None of what I oferd aplies to the Son of man jesus .He is not the Lord of lords .H Our Holy Father is Almighty God

Then why is Jesus referred to as the "Lord of lords" in Revelation 17:14 and Revelation 19:16?

 

[Runningman]

I once told you it doesn't matter if it was by, through or what ever....Jesus was there....when the world was created. Jesus pre-existed His incarnation.

How about Hebrews 1:2 when creation didn’t occur, speaking through the son, until these “last days?”

 

[Runningman]

None of what I oferd aplies to the Son of man jesus .He is not the Lord of lords .H Our Holy Father is Almighty God

Jesus the son of man was not created before his birth Bethlehem ,
Yes the faithful Creator *not the Son of man) "let there be" and it was truly God good. The Son of man can create nothing he our brother in the Lord not the Creator.

God is not a man

Hello. Are you a Unitarian Christian too?

 

[Arial]

Hello. Are you a Unitarian Christian too?

Unitarian Christian is an oxymoron. Central to Christian doctrine is the Trinity. Without it there is no Son of God, Son of Man to save, for no man born of Adam can pay for the sins of another man born in Adam. And God did not create another Adam and start over. He had to save eternally Himself as no one other than the otherness of Him could do so. And if He had to do it Himself, there must be a second person of the Trinity to come as one of us to do the work of redemption. And if there is no Holy Spirit of God who has all the attributes of God, there is no sealing in Christ by Him, and there is no Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ indwelling the believer.

So your question should be, "Are you a Unitarian too?"

 

[grace2]

Unitarian Christian is an oxymoron. Central to Christian doctrine is the Trinity. Without it there is no Son of God, Son of Man to save, for no man born of Adam can pay for the sins of another man born in Adam. And God did not create another Adam and start over. He had to save eternally Himself as no one other than the otherness of Him could do so. And if He had to do it Himself, there must be a second person of the Trinity to come as one of us to do the work of redemption. And if there is no Holy Spirit of God who has all the attributes of God, there is no sealing in Christ by Him, and there is no Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ indwelling the believer.

strange analysis.

 

[Fred]

strange analysis.

Biblically accurate analysis.

 

[grace2]

Biblically accurate analysis.

Nope.

 

[grace2]

Biblically accurate analysis.

Professed believers who worship the triune god follow man-made doctrines because the triune god is man-made.

 

[Runningman]

Unitarian Christian is an oxymoron. Central to Christian doctrine is the Trinity. Without it there is no Son of God, Son of Man to save, for no man born of Adam can pay for the sins of another man born in Adam. And God did not create another Adam and start over. He had to save eternally Himself as no one other than the otherness of Him could do so. And if He had to do it Himself, there must be a second person of the Trinity to come as one of us to do the work of redemption. And if there is no Holy Spirit of God who has all the attributes of God, there is no sealing in Christ by Him, and there is no Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ indwelling the believer.

So your question should be, "Are you a Unitarian too?"

Christians are monotheists therefore I would maintain that a Unitarian Christian would be in accordance with that and most appropriate. Whereas, arguably, there is a strong case to make that Trinitarianism is polytheism and thus doesn't fall under the umbrella of Christianity. For example, Jesus said in John 17:1-3 that the Father is the only true God. Practicing Jews like Jesus were strict, even staunch, monotheists - that's what a Unitarian is. Therefore Jesus is a Unitarian and mentioned nothing about the Trinity either explicitly or in description.

On that note, yes, Jesus did need God to save him from death, like all others humans do, as the writer of Hebrews 5 records:

Hebrews 5
7During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

The premise is simple here. God doesn't need saving from death because God cannot die. If God can die He wouldn't be a God and there wouldn't be a God to resurrect Him. God doesn't need to learn obedience or be made perfect.

 

[Runningman]

Biblically accurate analysis.

Not even slightly.

 

[donadams]

You forgot Luke 1

Lord is referred to 15 times in Lk 1
Who is this Lord?

Lk 1:6
Lk 1:9
Lk 1:11
Lk 1:15
Lk 1:16
Lk 1:17
Lk 1:25
Lk 1:32
Lk 1:38
Lk 1:43
Lk 1:45
Lk 1:46
Lk 1:58
Lk 1:66
Lk 1:68

Thanks

 

[Ghada]

For those who deny the Lord Jesus is God, the Father is the Creator and Jesus is a creature - no matter how highly exalted, He (Jesus) is still a created being. Yet in quite a few places in the New Testament the authors don't clearly distinguish as to whether or not they are referring to the Father (the Creator) or to the Lord Jesus ('the creature' for those who deny the Lord Jesus is God).
There is a vast difference between the Creator and the creature. To confuse the two could easily lead to idolatry. This is something the biblical authors (of course, God as well) would never want to happen. Therefore, to clearly identify to whom is being referred to is of vital importance.


So for those who deny the Lord Jesus is God please identify to whom is being referred to in all the passages below. It may take some time, but it took me quite a bit of time putting this list together.


John 7:18 (He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him)

Acts 1:24 (Lord)
Acts 2:20 (Lord)
Acts 2:21 (Lord)
Acts 2:25 (Lord)
Acts 2:47 (Lord)
Acts 5:9 (Lord)
Acts 5:41 (Name)
Acts 7:60 (Lord)
Acts 8:22 (Lord
Acts 8:24 (Lord)
Acts 9:1 (Lord)
Acts 9:28 (Lord)
Acts 9:31 (Lord)
Acts 9:35 (Lord)
Acts 9:42 (Lord)
Acts 10:14 (Lord)
Acts 10:33 (Lord)
Acts 11:21 (Lord X2)
Acts 11:23 (Lord)
Acts 11:24 (Lord)
Acts 12:11 (Lord; His)
Acts 13:2 (Lord)
Acts 14:3 (Lord)
Acts 14:23 (Lord)
Acts 15:40 (Lord)
Acts 16:14 (Lord)
Acts 21:14 (Lord)

Romans 8:27 (He who searches the hearts)
Romans 9:33 (Him)
Romans 10:11 (Him)
Romans 10:12 (Him)
Romans 10:13 (Lord)
Romans 10:14 (Him X2)
Romans 12:11 (Lord)

1 Corinthians 1:31 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 2:16 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 4:4 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 4:5 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 4:19 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 6:17 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 10:9 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 10:21 (Lord X2)
1 Corinthians 10:22 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 10:26 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 11:32 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 14:37 (Lord's)
1 Corinthians 15:58 (Lord)
1 Corinthians 16:7 (Lord)

2 Corinthians 3:16 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 3:17 (Lord X2)
2 Corinthians 3:18 (Lord X 2)
2 Corinthians 5:11 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 8:5 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 8:19 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 8:21 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 10:8 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 10:17 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 10:18 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 12:1 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 12:8 (Lord)
2 Corinthians 13:10 (Lord)

Galatians 2:8 (He)

Ephesians 2:21 (Lord)
Ephesians 6:9 (Master)
Ephesians 6:10 (Lord)

Colossians 1:10 (Lord)
Colossians 1:22 (Him)
Colossians 1:29 (His)
Colossians 3:22 (Lord)
Colossians 4:1 (Master)

1 Thessalonians 4:6 (Lord)
1 Thessalonians 5:24 (He X2)
1 Thessalonians 5:27 (Lord)

2 Thessalonians 3:1 (Lord)
2 Thessalonians 3:3 (Lord)
2 Thessalonians 3:4 (Lord)
2 Thessalonians 3:5 (Lord)
2 Thessalonians 3:16 (Lord X2)

1 Timothy 1:14 (Lord)
1 Timothy 6:15 (Lord)

2 Timothy 1:12 (He; Him)
2 Timothy 1:16 (Lord)
2 Timothy 1:18 (Lord X2)
2 Timothy 2:7 (Lord)
2 Timothy 2:11 (Him X2)
2 Timothy 2:12 (Him X2; He)
2 Timothy 2:13 (He X2; Himself)
2 Timothy 2:19 (Lord X2)
2 Timothy 2:21 (Master)
2 Timothy 2:22 (Lord)
2 Timothy 2:24 (Lord)
2 Timothy 3:11 (Lord)
2 Timothy 4:8 (Lord)
2 Timothy 4:14 (Lord)
2 Timothy 4:17 (Lord)
2 Timothy 4:18 (Lord)

Titus 2:14 (Himself X2; His)

Hebrews 1:10 (Lord)
Hebrews 10:37 (He)
Hebrews 12:14 (Lord)

James 2:7 (Name)
James 4:10 (Lord)
James 4:12 (Lawgiver and Judge)
James 4:15 (Lord)
James 5:7 (Lord)
James 5:8 (Lord)
James 5:9 (Judge)
James 5:10 (Lord)
James 5:11 (Lord's; Lord)
James 5:14 (Lord)
James 5:15 (Lord)

1 Peter 2:6 (Him)
1 Peter 2:25 (Shepherd and Guardian)
1 Peter 3:12 (Lord X2)
1 Peter 3:15 (Lord)
1 Peter 4:5 (Him)

2 Peter 2:1 (Master)
2 Peter 2:9 (Lord)
2 Peter 2:11 (Lord)
2 Peter 3:8 (Lord)
2 Peter 3:9 (Lord)
2 Peter 3:10 (Lord)
2 Peter 3:14 (Him)
2 Peter 3:15 (Lord)

1 John 2:3 (Him; His)
1 John 2:4 (Him; His)
1 John 2:5 (His; Him)
1 John 2:6 (Him; He)
1 John 2:8 (Him)
1 John 2:12 (His)
1 John 2:13 (Him)
1 John 2:14 (Him)
1 John 2:20 (Holy One)
1 John 2:25 (He)
1 John 2:27 (Him; His; Him)
1 John 2:28 (Him; He; Him; His)
1 John 2:29 (He; Him)
1 John 3:2 (He; Him X2; He)
1 John 3:3 (Him; He)
1 John 3:5 (He; Him)
1 John 3:6 (Him X3)
1 John 3:7 (He)
1 John 3:24 (His; Him; He X3)
1 John 4:4 (He)
1 John 4:13 (Him; He X2; His)
1 John 4:17 (He)
1 John 4:19 (He)
1 John 4:21 (Him)
1 John 5:14 (Him; His; He)
1 John 5:15 (He; Him)
1 John 5:20 (Him X2; He)

3 John 7 (Name)

Jude 4 (Master; Lord)
Jude 5 (Lord)
Jude 14 (Lord)

Revelation 1:6 (Him)
Revelation 6:10 (Master)
Revelation 11:15 (He)
Revelation 14:13 (Lord)
Revelation 18:4 (My)
Revelation 20:6 (Him)
Revelation 22:3 (His; Him)
Revelation 22:4 (His; His)
Revelation 22:12 (To whom do the pronouns refer to?)
Revelation 22:13 (To whom do the appellations refer to?)

Not sure what you're getting at, but the Creator is the Word, who became the only-begotten Son when made flesh.

God and the Word are each God and Creator.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

And so, we have God in prophecy confirmed in the NT, speaking to His Son, and calling Him God. God also calls the Son Lord, that created the earth and heavens.

In other places where God creates all things by Him, the unbelievers try to reduce Him to a created helper. But, once again God always shuts every unbelieving mouth, by certain Scripture that cannot be read any other way. At these times, the unbelievers either are corrected, or they double down in unbelief, and resort to denying simple English, or by corrupting grammar of original languages.

John 1:1 is the first plain statement in the Bible revealing the Godhead of at least 2 persons. People either believe the Word was God, or they don't. And yet Heb 1 is written to further expose the unbelievers. Afterall, Heb 1 is all about the Son not being an angel, nor created.

 

[jeremiah1five]

For those who deny the Lord Jesus is God, the Father is the Creator and Jesus is a creature - no matter how highly exalted, He (Jesus) is still a created being. Yet in quite a few places in the New Testament the authors don't clearly distinguish as to whether or not they are referring to the Father (the Creator) or to the Lord Jesus ('the creature' for those who deny the Lord Jesus is God).
There is a vast difference between the Creator and the creature. To confuse the two could easily lead to idolatry. This is something the biblical authors (of course, God as well) would never want to happen. Therefore, to clearly identify to whom is being referred to is of vital importance.


So for those who deny the Lord Jesus is God please identify to whom is being referred to in all the passages below. It may take some time, but it took me quite a bit of time putting this list together.

Jesus Messiah, the Son of God is NOT a "created being."

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus Messiah, the Son of God is NOT a "created being."

The son of man Jesus is a created being.. marvel not!! but rather believe his living word

The wrath of God comes by worshiping the dying mankind a creation above the of our invisible Holy Father the one Faithful Creator ?

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Can I get a amen brother in Christ ?

Why is it necessary for you to make dying mankind eternal God ? What the hope? .

 

[Ghada]

Jesus Messiah, the Son of God is NOT a "created being."

Simple is always best. Thanks.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The son of man Jesus is a created being.. marvel not!! but rather believe his living word

The Son of man was born, not created. You sound like a Jehovah Witness.

The wrath of God comes by worshiping the dying mankind a creation above the of our invisible Holy Father the one Faithful Creator ?

That would be called "sin."

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Can I get a amen brother in Christ ?

A--Woman!

Why is it necessary for you to make dying mankind eternal God ? What the hope? .

You are not only confused but confusing.

 

[Mr GLee]

The Son of man was born, not created. You sound like a Jehovah Witness.

LOL You sound like you.

Will you try and answer the questions rather than [laying guess my background or church format.

God is not a dying Jewish man .When the first century reformation came the veil was rent. There was no Jewish man sitting in the Holy of Holies (temples made with dying hands of mankind) The abomination of desolation)

Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God is a Jewish man as a dying creation as described in the parable of Revelation 20 below.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Really you are trying to put some sort of division from being born and created in some sort of hope of making God into dying mankind (Jew)?

All people are born created .and all to include or brother in the Lord must of been born again as a new creation . . .marvel not .

You sound like you have no idea how to rightfully divide (interpret) and not add to the perfect (sola scriptura) with the oral traditons of dying mankind ?

Will you even acknowledge there was a reformation during the first century ?.

Is Jesus the Son of man your brother in the Lord?

 

[Mr GLee]

A--Woman!

Yes , brother . . .the whole body of Christ as the bride of Christ is signified after a woman, called the mother us of all . .

Jesus the prophet sent as a apostle, our brother in the lord was given words from the Holy Father. he declared the Father's will below .

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

You are not only confused but confusing

Learn how to rightfully divide according to the loving commandment (2 Timothy 2;15) .It's not just good philosophical theory. Then you can seek the approval of eternal God and not the oral traditions of dying mankind.

2 Timothy 2;15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

One thing that can help. . Remember without parable the signified understanding of Christ, God spoke not. He hides the spiritual things of God from those who do not rightfully divide prophecy( parables) . They become confusing to them that look alone to the historical temporal and not mix the eternal invisible

Will you use the most valuable 20/20 mixing prescription below

.2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[jeremiah1five]

LOL You sound like you.

I am ME!
As she is me and we are all together.

Will you try and answer the questions rather than [laying guess my background or church format.

Then answer my question I sent you first and I wouldn't have to guess.

God is not a dying Jewish man .When the first century reformation came the veil was rent. There was no Jewish man sitting in the Holy of Holies (temples made with dying hands of mankind) The abomination of desolation)

There was no 1st century reformation.
The Advent of both Israel's Messiah and the Holy Spirit of Promise was a continuation of the prophecies about their coming that would complete Judaism.
Christianity is Completed Judaism.

Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God is a Jewish man as a dying creation as described in the parable of Revelation 20 below.

Yes, and he scraped more than his knees.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Who is that talking about?

Really you are trying to put some sort of division from being born and created in some sort of hope of making God into dying mankind (Jew)?

I failed math in H.S. I don't know how to divide. But the Great Shepherd knows division. He divides sheep (Israel) from goats (dying mankind Gentiles.)

All people are born created .and all to include or brother in the Lord must of been born again as a new creation . . .marvel not .

No, there is a distinction between born and created. There is a division between the two.

You sound like you have no idea how to rightfully divide (interpret) and not add to the perfect (sola scriptura) with the oral traditons of dying mankind ?

Perfect? I found Saul contradicts himself in at least two places, and he changes a word in a prophecy by Isaiah to make the prophecy say something else entirely. So, on these counts, no, the sola scriptura is not perfect.

Will you even acknowledge there was a reformation during the first century ?.

No can do because there wasn't. Stop adding to the bible.

Is Jesus the Son of man your brother in the Lord?

Adopted.
And yes, I have red hair.