Doxology

[donadams]

Yes Jesus the Christ the anointing holy Spirit of eternal God. He worked mightily in Jesus the Son of man, our brother in the Lord

Are there three persons or one person acting as three?

 

[grace2]

In my honest opinion you are still on the milk of the word,

Trins are not even drinking Jesus' milk.

 

[Mr GLee]

Are there three persons or one person acting as three?

Its two the dynamic duo the unseen eternal powerful of the one Holy Father displaying his power in the powerless son of man. Jesus. using the temporal things seen to faithfully give us his eternal unseen gospel understanding or spiritual understanding not after the dying flesh and blood of mankind

he give us a valuable tool as a prescription needed to rightly divide the parables Again uses the temporal things sen to give us the eternal not seen. We can walk by faith of Christ the unseen power of God . not by sight after dying mankind Like Peter our brother in the Lod

Three's a crowd making a way for a queen mother

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The tool needed to rightly divide the living abiding word throughout sola scriptura. . write it on yourof pesace forehead as in first things first then we can rest in the gospel

 

[Red Baker]

Okay. I don't know what that has to do with my post. Since I am not talking about the Ontological Trinity and Economical Trinity. And I reject the false doctrine of “temporary submission,” which is a view that claims that the Son’s submission to the Father was only for the period of his incarnation and not before time eternal or after his resurrection. What I'm addressing in your post is the misrepresentation of the Hypostatic Union.

Binyawmene~I'm traveling today out of town, be back later, leaving shortly.

I want to discuss this subject with you more when I have the time which maybe in a couple of days ~ this weekend I'm busy again with company from out of town~Plus, I would like to watch a little basketball since i enjoy college more than the pros, I'll be pulling for my UNC Tarheels since I have from the mid sixties. I was born and raised in their backyard. Actually, I remembered watching them on my black and white TV in the 1957 Dixie Classic...my oh my, that's a long time around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Classic_(basketball_tournament)

I will say this concerning your words above~Jesus, the Son of God, is under submission to his Father only in his humanity, as the Son of man, which means he was not before he was conceived in the womb of his mother, Mary around two thousand years ago, (btw, which is the only record we have when God had a Son, according to Luke chapter one) and is now only (submissive) in his glorified flesh as the Son of God, yet that being said~ Jesus will be the only God that you and I will ever see since God is a Spirit that lives in eternity....always has, always will, which no man, or angels can approach unto and not be consumed!

I'm thinking our disagreement is much like that between Calvin and Michael Servetus, Where as I disagree with John Calvin and was more in line with Servetus' understanding based upon his last words which he said:

Historians record his last words as: "Jesus, Son of the Eternal God, have mercy on me."

But, we will never know exactly what he believed since his works were burned with him. But, if history is correct, then his confess would be just like mine! Jesus is the Son of the eternal God, not that the Son is eternal for many reason which we have mentioned above and for others will will. There is only One God manifested to us as three, only according to each respective work in the redemption of the elect seed of Jesus Christ

Co-eternal, with the Father (Psalms 90:2, Proverbs 8:25, 30).

Above you said these words and to prove you position you quoted Proverbs 8:25, 30. I have heard a few men quote this a few times before, and say~Proverbs 30 teaches that Christ, as Wisdom, was brought up with God before creation (Prov 8:22-31).

Solomon in Proverbs 8 continues to teach godly wisdom. He is not teaching eternal generation! He is continuing a personification of wisdom, Lady Wisdom, from the context (Pr 8:1-21; 9:1-6).

Any begotten God from here must be a daughter, for the pronouns throughout are feminine!

All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Christ due to His divine nature (Col 2:3) This type of false allegorizing to develop theology and doctrine was Origen’s favorite method. here are many more objections to the incarnate Sonship position which we see and teach.

One you mention above.....God’s Son surely existed before the incarnation, because GOD SENT HIS SON into the world.

Reference texts used to “prove” this point are John 3:16-17; 10:36; I John 4:9; and others. However God sent Jesus into the world, He sent His disciples the same way (John 17:18)! However God sent His Son, He sent His servants the same way before Him (Matthew 21:33-39).

When was John the Baptist sent from God (John 1:6)? Before or after he was born to Elisabeth?

Isaiah illustrates how a man is sent by God – called to service (Isaiah 6:8; Romans 10:15).

The Son God sent forth to redeem was made of a woman (Gal 4:4-5). Note the grammar!

If such verses prove eternal sonship, they also prove Christ’s preexistence (I Timothy 1:15). Christ existed before being delivered (Rom 8:32), since He was delivered at death (Acts 2:23). Whenever a woman gives birth to a son, she brings a man-child into the world (John 16:21). This is one of the best and most popular arguments for eternal and against incarnate sonship! The one most often used.

I must run~but the Lord willing, I shall continue this.

.

 

[Mr GLee]

The hypostatic union is the combination of God the Word and a human nature in a single Being.

God is a Spirit (John 4:24), but a human body was prepared for God to possess (Hebrews 10:5).

Neither Christ’s divinity (John 8:58) nor His humanity (Heb 4:15) was changed by their union. But He is not fully Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour without His body (Luke 2:12; 24:39).

As we have said: Jesus of Nazareth is the complex Person of God and man – He possesses both complete natures. That's what we mean by being a complex person.

I would offer.

God as Christ is the anointing or teaching Holy Spirit. He is supernatural (without nature) Christ has no nature as a beginning of days or end of Spirit life . He remains without father or mother without descent.

Hebrews 7King James Version7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

No such thing as a hypostatic relationship. That kind of idea simply promotes the goal of Satan. . trying to deceive the all the nations of the world that God is a Jewish man as King of kings.

When the veil which represent the circumcision of the first born again of the Son of man was rent. . There was no Jewish man as King of Kings and Lord of lord sitting in the Holy of holies .

Satan fell as recorded in the parable in Revelation 20 :3 He will be released at the end of the age try again to deceive all the nations of the world that God is a Jewish man as King of kings and Lord of lords

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Sort of like the Wizard of Oz scenario. Powerful words except there was no man sitting behind the curtain or veil. .

 

[STAND]

Yes just as I believe unitarians are wrong about God. God is love destroys the unitarian position. A Solitary person/ being cannot know or experience love- It takes another to know, experience and share love.

God is love is false in unitarianism.

hope this helps !!!

Can you elaborate a little?

I've learned a bit about Unitarians and agree with most of what I've seen you post about their beliefs, but I'm not clear on how 'God is love' contradicts their teachings.

 

[grace2]

Can you elaborate a little?

I've learned a bit about Unitarians and agree with most of what I've seen you post about their beliefs, but I'm not clear on how 'God is love' contradicts their teachings.

Thank you for pointing out this. I am not following the thread but his claim of unitarians contradicts "God is love" is an utterly false accusation.

BTW, I am a unitarian.

 

[donadams]

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 

[civic]

Can you elaborate a little?

I've learned a bit about Unitarians and agree with most of what I've seen you post about their beliefs, but I'm not clear on how 'God is love' contradicts their teachings.

Here is the problem with a Unitarian god. He would be incapable of love for the scriptures declare that God is love. It is impossible for that god to love for there was nothing to love before creation. This god would have created beings to love him out of something lacking within his very nature. For someone to love there must be another to share in that love. God is love because He loves within His own nature. God could not love if He was only one person. God would be contradicting Himself if He was not self sufficient. God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God whom the scriptures declare to be The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Tozer: The words “God is love” mean that love is an essential attribute of God. Love is something true of God but it is not God. It expresses the way God is in His unitary being, as do the words holiness, justice, faithfulness and truth. Because God is immutable He always acts like Himself, and because He is a unity He never suspends one of His attributes in order to exercise another.

From God’s other known attributes we may learn much about His love. We can know, for instance, that because God is self-existent, His love had no beginning; because He is eternal, His love can have no end; because He is infinite, it has no limit; because He is holy, it is the quintessence of all spotless purity; because He is immense, His love is an incomprehensibly vast, bottomless, shoreless sea before which we kneel in joyful silence and from which the loftiest eloquence retreats confused and abashed.(AW Tozer)

hope this helps !!!

 

[STAND]

Here is the problem with a Unitarian god. He would be incapable of love for the scriptures declare that God is love. It is impossible for that god to love for there was nothing to love before creation. This god would have created beings to love him out of something lacking within his very nature. For someone to love there must be another to share in that love. God is love because He loves within His own nature. God could not love if He was only one person. God would be contradicting Himself if He was not self sufficient. God is Love means that He has this ability to love within Himself. This is only possible if He is a tri-personal God whom the scriptures declare to be The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Tozer: The words “God is love” mean that love is an essential attribute of God. Love is something true of God but it is not God. It expresses the way God is in His unitary being, as do the words holiness, justice, faithfulness and truth. Because God is immutable He always acts like Himself, and because He is a unity He never suspends one of His attributes in order to exercise another.

From God’s other known attributes we may learn much about His love. We can know, for instance, that because God is self-existent, His love had no beginning; because He is eternal, His love can have no end; because He is infinite, it has no limit; because He is holy, it is the quintessence of all spotless purity; because He is immense, His love is an incomprehensibly vast, bottomless, shoreless sea before which we kneel in joyful silence and from which the loftiest eloquence retreats confused and abashed.(AW Tozer)

hope this helps !!!

Hmmm.

By that logic, wouldn't God be many then?

If God needs to be more than one person in order to also be love, why wouldn't the entire Bible say God is many?

Rather than what it actually does say: God is ONE.

I don't think the Bible ever says, or even implies, that God is lonely.

I think it's important for us to remember that God defines love. Man does not.

Man's definition of love is very insecure, very conditional. It is a very tiny love in comparison to God's love.

If God IS the very essence, the originating source, of divine love, I'm not so sure that requires that He be multiple people in order for that to be true. And if God IS love, then He was certainly love prior to Creation. Remember the angels already existed then so He wasn't alone.

Just an alternative perspective.

 

[grace2]

Here is the problem with a Unitarian god. He would be incapable of love for the scriptures declare that God is love.

strange claim.