Did Christ actually suffer eternal torment on our behalf?

[makesends]

Lazarus speaking from hell was still thinking....he wanted to warn his brothers.

That was symbolic.

I won't exactly agree with Kiew, but I don't think we have warrant to make more out of the stories and parables that Jesus used, than what he apparently meant for them to be used for. They were stories —in this case, probably using a common notion concerning the afterlife, not to teach about the geography, logistics and communication of the afterlife, but to make a few pretty cool (and obvious) points: 1. Predicting his death and resurrection: one will come back from the grave and people will not believe him. 2. Unbelievers are a stubborn sort, and will not to believe. 3. Working for earned rewards during this life will not avail you in the next.

 

[Keiw1]

Your homework is incomplete.

Not at all, its 100% undeniable fact. Its your teachers who are in error.

 

[Keiw1]

I won't exactly agree with Kiew, but I don't think we have warrant to make more out of the stories and parables that Jesus used, than what he apparently meant for them to be used for. They were stories —in this case, probably using a common notion concerning the afterlife, not to teach about the geography, logistics and communication of the afterlife, but to make a few pretty cool (and obvious) points: 1. Predicting his death and resurrection: one will come back from the grave and people will not believe him. 2. Unbelievers are a stubborn sort, and will not to believe. 3. Working for earned rewards during this life will not avail you in the next.

If your reasoning was true, then none could find happiness in heaven if they could look down and watch their loved ones suffering now could they. They would be filled with outcries and emotional pain to watch them suffer. That would make God a liar-Rev 21: 4--we know he didn't lie, thus its your false reasoning thinking its literal. If your teachers teach that then they live in darkness-RUN FROM THEM.

 

[makesends]

If your reasoning was true, then none could find happiness in heaven if they could look down and watch their loved ones suffering now could they. They would be filled with outcries and emotional pain to watch them suffer. That would make God a liar-Rev 21: 4--we know he didn't lie, thus its your false reasoning thinking its literal. If your teachers teach that then they live in darkness-RUN FROM THEM.

What??? My reasoning is not that they could look down and watch their loved ones suffering! Did you even read what I said?

 

[ChristB4us]

Jesus was in Hades for 3 days. Hades translates-the grave.

Do you have the verse(s) citing that Jesus was in Hades? The KJV does not list it as Hades, but I can agree that His body was in the grave, but the term is defined by how it is used in the verse in according to the message given as it can also refer to the afterlife.

Where all thought stops.

Not really. All thoughts for the land of the living is done because they are no longer in the land of the living to be thinking about it. They do have thoughts though, but not about anything in the land of the living.

Thus the passage saying Jesus witnessed to those in Hades was symbolism, not literal.

It is literal depending on how the KJV has it.

As for the afterlife, we have this sin of King Saul consulting a witch to bring up the spirit of Samuel, the prophet.

1 Samuel 28th Chapter

No one can say that was not the prophet Samuel when he had prophesied King Saul's and his son's death in the field of battle and it came true.

God forbids saints to consult with mediums and such not because they cannot contact the dead, but they were to go to the Lord for guidance and answers.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

And so for Him to descend to preach unto them in prison, ( Abraham's bosom aka Paradise ) He has to be conscious as well as those He has preached to for them to hear the Good News,

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Plus He did say to the thief on the cross....that he would meet Him that day after death.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

So Abraham's bosom aka Paradise, was originally located beneath the earth but across that great gulf from hell but since His resurrection and ascension, He has brough the captivity captive by bringing Paradise to Heaven in leading the way as only He can bring us to God the Father in Heaven. Paul testified of the apostle John ( indirectly ) in having been taken to Paradise in the third Heaven for writing the Book of Revelation.

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Proof that Paradise was not in Heaven before Christ's death, resurrection & ascension

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Only Christ can bring us to God the Father and so there is no other way than by the blood of the Lamb of God.

Granted, Enoch and Elijah were taken up to the heavens, but not the third heaven which is God's throne. I suspect that they are travelling through time and space to be dropped off after the pre great tribulation rapture to serve as the 2 witnesses in Jerusalem for the first half of the great tribulation for when they will die, and be resurrected and called to come up hither halfway through that great tribulation. Revelation 11:1-13 KJV

There is precedent for this kind of divine transportation as the apostle Philip was transported from one place to another.

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

May God cause the increase as I know I cannot do that.

 

[Keiw1]

What??? My reasoning is not that they could look down and watch their loved ones suffering! Did you even read what I said?

If you believe its literal its what you are saying.

 

[Keiw1]

Do you have the verse(s) citing that Jesus was in Hades? The KJV does not list it as Hades, but I can agree that His body was in the grave, but the term is defined by how it is used in the verse in according to the message given as it can also refer to the afterlife.

Not really. All thoughts for the land of the living is done because they are no longer in the land of the living to be thinking about it. They do have thoughts though, but not about anything in the land of the living.

It is literal depending on how the KJV has it.

As for the afterlife, we have this sin of King Saul consulting a witch to bring up the spirit of Samuel, the prophet.

1 Samuel 28th Chapter

No one can say that was not the prophet Samuel when he had prophesied King Saul's and his son's death in the field of battle and it came true.

God forbids saints to consult with mediums and such not because they cannot contact the dead, but they were to go to the Lord for guidance and answers.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

And so for Him to descend to preach unto them in prison, ( Abraham's bosom aka Paradise ) He has to be conscious as well as those He has preached to for them to hear the Good News,

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Plus He did say to the thief on the cross....that he would meet Him that day after death.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

So Abraham's bosom aka Paradise, was originally located beneath the earth but across that great gulf from hell but since His resurrection and ascension, He has brough the captivity captive by bringing Paradise to Heaven in leading the way as only He can bring us to God the Father in Heaven. Paul testified of the apostle John ( indirectly ) in having been taken to Paradise in the third Heaven for writing the Book of Revelation.

2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Proof that Paradise was not in Heaven before Christ's death, resurrection & ascension

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Only Christ can bring us to God the Father and so there is no other way than by the blood of the Lamb of God.

Granted, Enoch and Elijah were taken up to the heavens, but not the third heaven which is God's throne. I suspect that they are travelling through time and space to be dropped off after the pre great tribulation rapture to serve as the 2 witnesses in Jerusalem for the first half of the great tribulation for when they will die, and be resurrected and called to come up hither halfway through that great tribulation. Revelation 11:1-13 KJV

There is precedent for this kind of divine transportation as the apostle Philip was transported from one place to another.

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

May God cause the increase as I know I cannot do that.

Eccl 9:10

 

[makesends]

If you believe its literal its what you are saying.

If I believe WHAT is literal? I've gone back and read a few posts, but I can't figure out what you are talking about.

Oh, you think, after what I said, that I think the story/parable is literal??? I'm guessing you didn't real my post.

 

[ChristB4us]

Eccl 9:10

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

This exhortation is given for those in the land of the living in regards to how we are to work whereby in the grave, there is no work nor "device" in the grave and therefore no need for knowledge nor wisdom in regards to any work in the land of the living in doing a very good job.

That does not negate the scriptures in post # 165 testifying of the soul having a consciousness & an awareness after death whereby that exhortation in Ecclesiastes 9:10 for those in the land of the living would not apply.

You should consider that the "story" from Jesus about the rich man and the beggar named Lazarus, had to be true for any one hearing this story to take heed that the living has His words to repent and so now is the time for salvation and not after death.

2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

If you look at the story about the afterlife by Jesus as not true, but metaphorical, then was Jesus lying? Surely, whatever metaphorical point Jesus wishes to make that you seem to imply as only making, could have been said without lying or saying a "fable" about the afterlife.

Hence, since Jesus cannot lie, let alone spin a parable as not true, the testimony about the rich man and the beggar, named Lazarus, is true.

 

[Keiw1]

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

This exhortation is given for those in the land of the living in regards to how we are to work whereby in the grave, there is no work nor "device" in the grave and therefore no need for knowledge nor wisdom in regards to any work in the land of the living in doing a very good job.

That does not negate the scriptures in post # 165 testifying of the soul having a consciousness & an awareness after death whereby that exhortation in Ecclesiastes 9:10 for those in the land of the living would not apply.

You should consider that the "story" from Jesus about the rich man and the beggar named Lazarus, had to be true for any one hearing this story to take heed that the living has His words to repent and so now is the time for salvation and not after death.

2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

If you look at the story about the afterlife by Jesus as not true, but metaphorical, then was Jesus lying? Surely, whatever metaphorical point Jesus wishes to make that you seem to imply as only making, could have been said without lying or saying a "fable" about the afterlife.

Hence, since Jesus cannot lie, let alone spin a parable as not true, the testimony about the rich man and the beggar, named Lazarus, is true.

Sheol is the Hebrew word in Eccl-Sheol = Greek-Hades.
Everyones sin is paid for in full at death.( Rom 6:7)-they cannot be rejudged for those sins, God already judged that death is the wages of sin. In the Resurrection, those get an opportunity to learn and apply Gods will. Some will remain faithful when satan is loosed for a little while,( to test the resurrected ones) some will not. Rev 20--they will be judged by their actions then. What a loving, merciful God to do that.

 

[CrowCross]

How can there be a Satan/Lucifer when the angels that sinned are locked up and awaiting judgment?

All of the angels are not locked up.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude vs. 6.

Locked up. Do not pass "GO" do not collect $200.

Acts 16:16 speaks of a demon that must have escaped???

As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling.

 

[CrowCross]

That was symbolic.

Do you have a verse or a series of verses from the bible that tells us Hell is symbolic?

What's next? Will you tell us the resurrection was also simply symbolic and Jesus didn't actually physically rise from the dead? If what Jesus did between death and the resurrection as presented in the bible was symbolic....why not His resurrection...or even death on the cross?

 

[CrowCross]

I won't exactly agree with Kiew, but I don't think we have warrant to make more out of the stories and parables that Jesus used, than what he apparently meant for them to be used for. They were stories —in this case, probably using a common notion concerning the afterlife, not to teach about the geography, logistics and communication of the afterlife, but to make a few pretty cool (and obvious) points: 1. Predicting his death and resurrection: one will come back from the grave and people will not believe him. 2. Unbelievers are a stubborn sort, and will not to believe. 3. Working for earned rewards during this life will not avail you in the next.

Parables may well be fiction...Was there really a good Samaritan? On the other hand what we do know about them is that they are based upon actual events or events that could have actually happened.

 

[Eleanor]

Not at all, its 100% undeniable fact. Its your teachers who are in error.

Or it is yours.

 

[CrowCross]

Or it is yours.

The problem is that you know and I know our theology isn't 100% correct...but there are people like Keiw1 who tend to claim they've nailed it and their theology is 100% correct.

 

[ChristB4us]

Sheol is the Hebrew word in Eccl-Sheol = Greek-Hades.

You said it is the grave in Ecclesiastes and so naturally, this exhortation to work with all thy might in the land of the living is done when your body is in the grave. There is no more to do in getting better at your job when you are no longer in the land of the living.

Everyones sin is paid for in full at death.( Rom 6:7)-they cannot be rejudged for those sins, God already judged that death is the wages of sin.

Do understand that those left behind are still saved, regardless of the unrepentant iniquity that denies Him or even for denying Him verbally.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Note the warning to the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation in Revelation.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

This is why God is judging His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event as those who are saved BUT they lived after the flesh, will die unless they turn to Him now and with His help, repent before the Bridegroom comes.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

So with His help, when we align all the scriptures, we may see the bigger picture of what the pre great tribulation rapture is all about as it is when God will judge His House first. Those not found abiding in him and left behind are still saved as bought with a price and sealed as His for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels if wood & earth to serve the king of kings on earth from all over the world in raising up the generations following them for why they need to eat from the tree of life whereas the vessels unto honor in His House are vessels of gold and silver that will never die, made higher than the angels, thus not given in marriage as they will live in the city of God.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

In the Resurrection, those get an opportunity to learn and apply Gods will. Some will remain faithful when satan is loosed for a little while,( to test the resurrected ones) some will not. Rev 20--they will be judged by their actions then. What a loving, merciful God to do that.

The resurrected ones will not be in danger of the second death as they will be kept from that temptation and sin to rebel with the devil against Jesus; however, those resurrected after the great tribulation will be marrying and raising the coming generations which that coming generations will be tempted to join with the devil in his last rebellion after the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.

So the coming generations from those resurrected after the great tribulation, will be judged by their actions.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Keiw1]

Do you have a verse or a series of verses from the bible that tells us Hell is symbolic?

What's next? Will you tell us the resurrection was also simply symbolic and Jesus didn't actually physically rise from the dead? If what Jesus did between death and the resurrection as presented in the bible was symbolic....why not His resurrection...or even death on the cross?

Gods justice scales prove there is no literal place of eternal suffering. Gods love and Mercy as well.

 

[Keiw1]

You said it is the grave in Ecclesiastes and so naturally, this exhortation to work with all thy might in the land of the living is done when your body is in the grave. There is no more to do in getting better at your job when you are no longer in the land of the living.

Do understand that those left behind are still saved, regardless of the unrepentant iniquity that denies Him or even for denying Him verbally.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Note the warning to the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation in Revelation.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

This is why God is judging His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event as those who are saved BUT they lived after the flesh, will die unless they turn to Him now and with His help, repent before the Bridegroom comes.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

So with His help, when we align all the scriptures, we may see the bigger picture of what the pre great tribulation rapture is all about as it is when God will judge His House first. Those not found abiding in him and left behind are still saved as bought with a price and sealed as His for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels if wood & earth to serve the king of kings on earth from all over the world in raising up the generations following them for why they need to eat from the tree of life whereas the vessels unto honor in His House are vessels of gold and silver that will never die, made higher than the angels, thus not given in marriage as they will live in the city of God.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


The resurrected ones will not be in danger of the second death as they will be kept from that temptation and sin to rebel with the devil against Jesus; however, those resurrected after the great tribulation will be marrying and raising the coming generations which that coming generations will be tempted to join with the devil in his last rebellion after the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.

So the coming generations from those resurrected after the great tribulation, will be judged by their actions.

Thank you for sharing.

Your post in not truth.

 

[CrowCross]

Gods justice scales prove there is no literal place of eternal suffering. Gods love and Mercy as well.

Show me the verse that support that.

 

[Keiw1]

Show me the verse that support that.

Deut 32:4= ALL of Gods ways are justice--Justice is represented by a set of scales--God taught all perfect justice= an eye for an eye--His justice scales are uncorruptable=perfect balance.
So for 70-100 years of an unrepented life God could not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of suffering--there is 0 balance on those scales in that scenario-Its like an eye for a gazillion eyes= not the true God. Only a sadist would have a literal eternal suffering.
Deut 30:19-God set before all-LIFE or DEATH, both will be everlasting.