Dealing with Toxic People

[Josheb]

In a separate op, huh?

My bad. I meant separate post.

Yeah, ok, mom.

Toxic

Who voted you as the special moderator of this specific thread?

Toxic

You've spoken your big peace.

Toxically

Thanks.

Is that a sincere expression of gratitude or a disingenuous one, because if it is the latter than that's toxic.

Moving on.

Moving on from your own op? Can't wait to witness that.

The fact is my original appraisal was just evidenced and proven. The gaslighting that ensued (blaming me and acting like the offended one) is text book example of toxicity. So too is the avoidance of the op-relevant material in Post 5 and 9.

Actually, NO. Judas was NOT a toxic person at all. He was just weak of character and flawed in his love for money.

The two are not mutually exclusive conditions. Judas' character was so weak he was also toxic. He stole money from the community purse, lied about doing so, conspired with Jesus' enemies and lied about that, acted like a fried and lied about that, sold Jesus' life for money and lied about it, disrupted the entire fellowship with his betrayal and lied about it. Then, when the act was done, he never confessed, was so guilt-ridden he committed suicide instead of doing anything redemptive with the money or what would have remained with his life. He was self-centered, manipulative, deceitful, greedy, utterly lacking in altruism and empathy, and had little or no regard for others and their well-being. All of this is evidence of selfish goals and a serious lack of both personal and moral boundaries and the violation of others' boundaries.

That is the definition of a toxic person!

The Bible shows no example of him harassing others or causing anybody specific any stress or hardship.

I'm having difficulty believing you genuinely believe those words because his theft from the community purse caused "specific stress and hardship." His betrayal of Jesus did cause many very specific stress and hardship, and it definitely caused stress and hardship for the disciples, including emotional pain.

He was just weak.

It's that word "just" that needs to go. Judas was weak. That point is not in dispute. However, he was not "just" weak. He was corrupt in ways that were unmatched by the other apostles and disciples.

 

[Josheb]

In his great book 'When to walk away: Finding Freedom from Toxic People', Greg Thomas points out the worthless endeavor of continuing to fuss with toxic people.

“Instead of trying to make toxic people happy or satisfied (which is a waste of time, since they can’t and won’t be mollified), live to help reliable people serve and worship God. Our job is to open up new avenues of worship with people who want to reverence God. Rather than living to make toxic people feel good about us, let’s live to make reliable people excited about God.”
― Gary L. Thomas, When to Walk Away: Finding Freedom from Toxic People

Don't waste your time with toxic people.

It's a good book. Posts 5 and 9 are consistent with Thomas' book.

 

[CrowCross]

You're just going to continue to generalize because you disagree. You've been brainwashed by modern corrupt Christendom to believe in "undiscerning love" which the Bible speaks explicitly against.

Tax collectors were general sinners.

They weren't necessarily toxic people.

Yes, toxic people are friends, neighbors, co-workers or family members.

What is your point and how does it discount the OP?

Bad company corrupts us. What is your argument with that verse from Scripture?

Maybe you need to describe what a toxic person is and if you have one a biblical example.

 

[Josheb]

You're just going to continue to generalize because you disagree.

Pot, meet kettle.

You've been brainwashed by modern corrupt Christendom to believe in "undiscerning love" which the Bible speaks explicitly against.

Toxic ad hominem. Aside from his eschatology , @CrowCross is a devoted reader of scripture, and an astute observer of good character and reason. Practicing 1 Cor. 13:4-7 with him will be beneficial.

The Bible teaches that we should strive to help, assist and forgive "other believers", but it says nothing of wasting months and years on those general people who are just toxic and cause us nothing but problems. They are wasting our time and our energy and that is exactly what the devil intends for them to do in our lives.

The statement, "You've been brainwashed by modern corrupt Christendom to believe in 'undiscerning love,' which the Bible speaks against," is an obvious example of toxicity as defined by the op! The comment helps no one, wastes time, accuses and divides the brethren, and violates a host of scriptural directives (like Eph. 4:29, Php. 2:3, Pr. 15:1 and many others) It is the very kind of comment Thomas wrote about NOT doing!

Tax collectors were general sinners.

They had betrayed the Jewish people, their own countrymen, by working for the Roman occupiers, and were often hedonists.

Luke 5:29-30
And Levi gave a big reception for Him in his house; and there was a great crowd of tax collectors and other people who were reclining at the table with them. The Pharisees and their scribes began grumbling at His disciples, saying, "Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?"

Tax collectors and sinners, not tax collecting sinners. Scripture itself separates the two groups.

They weren't necessarily toxic people.

Tell that to the people from whom they extracted Roman taxes, or jailed when they could not do so.

 

[Josheb]

Maybe you need to describe what a toxic person is and if you have one a biblical example.

Amen!

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

You're just going to continue to generalize because you disagree. You've been brainwashed by modern corrupt Christendom to believe in "undiscerning love" which the Bible speaks explicitly against.

Tax collectors were general sinners.

They weren't necessarily toxic people.

Yes, toxic people are friends, neighbors, co-workers or family members.

What is your point and how does it discount the OP?

Bad company corrupts us. What is your argument with that verse from Scripture?

You'll find that the toxic people you are conversing with here will keep pestering and wasting your time with meaningless arguments and adhominem attacks. It's not worth the time taking them seriously. They are here only to cause grief.

 

[Arial]

Jesus never sought out toxic people and begged them to believe in Him.

What you mean by toxic needs a definition.

He certainly doesn't expect us to waste our time with these people.

Who are these people and what are you considering wasting out time with them?

So many misguided Christians today preach that we should do everything we can for the toxic friends and family members in our lives. That we should be endlessly patient and continuously forgiving and strive to bring them to God.

We are told to forgive, so what does forgiveness look like towards these toxic people? What do you mean by striving to bring them to God? Should we not preach the gospel to them? Should we not live our own lives and in relation to them as children of God are instructed to live?

The Bible teaches that we should strive to help, assist and forgive "other believers", but it says nothing of wasting months and years on those general people who are just toxic and cause us nothing but problems. They are wasting our time and our energy and that is exactly what the devil intends for them to do in our lives.

You are wrong when you say the Bible teaches us only to assist and forgive other believers and that it says nothing of "wasting months and years on those general people who are just toxic and cause us nothing but problems." It pretty much says the opposite. Those "general people" who are not believers are lost people, just as you were before you were brought to life and into the light by God.

We are to purge the evil from our midst and cut ties with these people permanently.

Are we? What if God put them in our path for a reason? One to teach us things we need to learn and to be a light to them. It is speaking for God to make such a statement, though I know that never occurred to you and it was not your intention.

They are Tares that have been planted by the enemy among the Wheat for the very purpose of sidetracking our cause and frustrating our efforts for God

What is our cause?

Even if a seemingly devout believer is causing that much strife and stress in our lives, we are to cut them off as well. They are not displaying genuine fruits of a believer and they are not representing Christ in any way.

Again, over generalized and stated as a law of God when it isn't one. We do not know what God is doing or in what way He may be using us.

They are not displaying genuine fruits of a believer and they are not representing Christ in any way.

Truthfully, I don't think the OP is displaying the fruit a believer should bear.

Free yourself from friends and loved ones who torment your life with poison and heartache. God intends for you to be free of these people and to use your passions and energy for His cause elsewhere.

What if someone took that advice and did the very thing you suggest and reaped a terrible result? You cannot say what God intends. He may intend for one person to get out of a situation and another to stay---for His purposes. It is not a one size fits all situation. He tells us to ask for wisdom. He teaches us wisdom in His word. He directs our footsteps and leads us in paths of righteousness for HIS namesake.

So I ask: Would you consider someone toxic if they disagreed with you, presented their differing view, and you were unable to get them to come around to your view? Would that be a toxic person iyo?

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

What you mean by toxic needs a definition.

Who are these people and what are you considering wasting out time with them?

We are told to forgive, so what does forgiveness look like towards these toxic people? What do you mean by striving to bring them to God? Should we not preach the gospel to them? Should we not live our own lives and in relation to them as children of God are instructed to live?

You are wrong when you say the Bible teaches us only to assist and forgive other believers and that it says nothing of "wasting months and years on those general people who are just toxic and cause us nothing but problems." It pretty much says the opposite. Those "general people" who are not believers are lost people, just as you were before you were brought to life and into the light by God.

Are we? What if God put them in our path for a reason? One to teach us things we need to learn and to be a light to them. It is speaking for God to make such a statement, though I know that never occurred to you and it was not your intention.

What is our cause?

Again, over generalized and stated as a law of God when it isn't one. We do not know what God is doing or in what way He may be using us.

Truthfully, I don't think the OP is displaying the fruit a believer should bear.

What if someone took that advice and did the very thing you suggest and reaped a terrible result? You cannot say what God intends. He may intend for one person to get out of a situation and another to stay---for His purposes. It is not a one size fits all situation. He tells us to ask for wisdom. He teaches us wisdom in His word. He directs our footsteps and leads us in paths of righteousness for HIS namesake.

So I ask: Would you consider someone toxic if they disagreed with you, presented their differing view, and you were unable to get them to come around to your view? Would that be a toxic person iyo?

To answer your last sentence. There is a way to disagree and still discuss without ad hominems, sneering attitude, arrogance and having respect for another person. THAT is the difference of what toxic is.

 

[STAND]

You'll find that the toxic people you are conversing with here will keep pestering and wasting your time with meaningless arguments and adhominem attacks. It's not worth the time taking them seriously. They are here only to cause grief.

Yes, I've noticed. Thanks for the reminder.

Here's another great quote about the nature of toxic people from Gary Thomas' book:

“There are certain people who drain us, demean us, and distract us from other healthy relationships. Long after they’re gone, we’re still fighting with them in our minds and trying to get them out of our hearts. They keep us awake. They steal our joy. They demolish our peace. They make us (if we’re honest with ourselves) weaker spiritually. They even invade times of worship and pervert them into seasons of fretting.”
― Gary L. Thomas, When to Walk Away: Finding Freedom from Toxic People
(emphasis mine)

We gain nothing by maintaining contact with toxic people.

 

[Arial]

To answer your last sentence. There is a way to disagree and still discuss without ad hominems, sneering attitude, arrogance and having respect for another person. THAT is the difference of what toxic is.

Is that the definition @STAND, the one who has presented the OP on toxic people, gives "toxic"? Because that is what we need to know in order to respond.

 

[Arial]

To answer your last sentence. There is a way to disagree and still discuss without ad hominems, sneering attitude, arrogance and having respect for another person. THAT is the difference of what toxic is.

You immediately began implying that other posters in this thread were toxic, and I did not get the impression that is what @STAND was referring to concerning dealing with toxic people. Especially sense he spoke of "friends and family". Which is why I asked. You apparently got him to agree with you and now, according to that definition of toxic, have turned the whole thread toxic.

Whereas, if the questions I asked and others have asked, and the points that were made, were addressed, it might have been a worthwhile thread. As there has been no attempt to do so, I suppose we have been relegated to the category of "toxic people" and will be shunned, with God's blessing. So maybe you are right. He meant people like us when he posted the OP. Which would fit one category of my definition of "toxic". It was toxic and intended to be toxic while fully convinced it was not.

 

[Arial]

You'll find that the toxic people you are conversing with here will keep pestering and wasting your time with meaningless arguments and adhominem attacks. It's not worth the time taking them seriously. They are here only to cause grief.

Ad hominem.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

You immediately began implying that other posters in this thread were toxic, and I did not get the impression that is what @STAND was referring to concerning dealing with toxic people. Especially sense he spoke of "friends and family". Which is why I asked. You apparently got him to agree with you and now, according to that definition of toxic, have turned the whole thread toxic.

Whereas, if the questions I asked and others have asked, and the points that were made, were addressed, it might have been a worthwhile thread. As there has been no attempt to do so, I suppose we have been relegated to the category of "toxic people" and will be shunned, with God's blessing. So maybe you are right. He meant people like us when he posted the OP. Which would fit one category of my definition of "toxic". It was toxic and intended to be toxic while fully convinced it was not.

I merely summarized the very rules of this forum. Actually, it's how discussion is done using common decency. "if the shoe fits...."

 

[Arial]

I merely summarized the very rules of this forum. Actually, it's how discussion is done using common decency. "if the shoe fits...."

The shoe fits you Eclipse. You always begin posting with ad hominem directed at others. You began in this one by calling another person toxic. I showed in another thread how you did the same thing. Just stop it and don't carry it on by responding in the same way to this one. See how you have successfully derailed the thread to make it about posters and not the post? I point this out so that you will recognize it in yourself, something you are apparently not aware of, as you continue to deny it and blame others for what you have done. Stop! Now!

 

[makesends]

We all have, or have had, toxic people in our lives.

What difference would that fact in my personal life make to this thread?

I'm sure we have. But I didn't ask that. I'm asking what are you referring to by "toxic people"?

 

[Arial]

“There are certain people who drain us, demean us, and distract us from other healthy relationships. Long after they’re gone, we’re still fighting with them in our minds and trying to get them out of our hearts. They keep us awake. They steal our joy. They demolish our peace. They make us (if we’re honest with ourselves) weaker spiritually. They even invade times of worship and pervert them into seasons of fretting.”
― Gary L. Thomas, When to Walk Away: Finding Freedom from Toxic People
(emphasis mine)

We gain nothing by maintaining contact with toxic people.

Sometimes this is good advice, and sometimes walking away deprives us of being sanctified in an area that needs training, by leaning into God. And I speak here from experience, and how quickly that sanctifying can take place, when we do this, asking God to deliver us from an enemy that is too strong for us, because it is a very part of our personal make up---the way in which we think. Here I refer to Thomas' statement "we"re still fighting with them in our minds" etc.

A crucial thing to remember imo is that we do not know what God is doing in the other person through placing us in their realm. The other important thing to remember is that we can do nothing about the other person. We can't persuade them, bully them into submission, change them. The only thing that can change in the situation is our reaction to it and how we allow it to affect our life. And our goal should be to maintain righteousness in our own behavior and thoughts. And who is our righteousness? It is not our own, but His.

Continuing to fight with them in our minds, letting this keep us awake, and steal our joy, and demolish our peace, to make us spiritually weaker, invade our worship as seasons of fretting, fills us with unrighteousness. That is the thing that must go. And if we try to do it with willpower alone, we will find it to be an enemy that is too strong for us. Now, I could go through my personal experience to illustrate more clearly what I mean, and if you want I will. But perhaps the readers will be able to see it without that.

It amounts to recognizing the unrighteousness of our own thoughts and that this is an enemy we cannot defeat, but desiring desperately, (and I mean desperately) to have it defeated for righteousness sake. And this is done in communion with God on the matter, and we see this in David's prayers for deliverance from enemies too strong for him. God hears His people, and He sees all, and He knows all, and He answers them. This communion should never be against a person, but for what we are dealing with in ourselves that is unrighteous. In all things, God is dealing with them, and He is dealing with us. It is never a one way street. And all things are working for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.

Does that mean we are to stay in relationships with these people? Not necessarily. Does it mean we should cut them out of our lives completely? Not necessarily. The type of relationship could change, one that does not have us tied to the person, but that also does not have us considering them trash on the heap of mankind, but sees them for what they are in God's sight, and treats them respectfully---created in His image and likeness, even if they are not living according to His image and likeness. One that does not write them off as worthless because we cannot bend them to our will. The one we need to closely examine is the only one we can closely examine. Ourselves. Ask God, as David did, to reveal to us our hidden sins that we might walk in His ways. In this we can gain strength, have the peace of God that surpasses understanding, have inexpressible joy that goes directly to the Father as we see Him defeat the enemy that was too strong for us. He does it.

 

[STAND]

I'm sure we have. But I didn't ask that. I'm asking what are you referring to by "toxic people"?

See post #29

if this wasn't clear enough for you from the OP:

Free yourself from friends and loved ones who torment your life with poison and heartache. God intends for you to be free of these people and to use your passions and energy for His cause elsewhere.

 

[makesends]

See post #29

if this wasn't clear enough for you from the OP:

I hope you realize that to some degree everyone causes torment and heartache. You'd have to be a hermit to be rid of that.

But, ok... I'll drop it.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Really sad to see that my posts are being censored.

 

[Arial]

Really sad to see that my posts are being censored.

Keep them op relevant instead of about posters and they won't be.