Daniel 9

[Rev. Man Ron]

I don't know where to start. Let's try this: if one third repent, 2/3 perish. Is that "all" Israel? Come on, be sensible.

ALL Israel is Paul, Isaiah showing that Israel as a nation is eventually saved. Even though the 12 Northern tribes wee toted off, each tribe still had men (seed) living in Jerusalem/Judea so there were NEVER any lost tribes, that is a fairy tale put forth by Herbert W. Armstrong (Church of God). Likewise, ALL Israel means Israel as a nation is saved, tge passage does not say every Jew will be saved.

#3956 πᾶς pas {pas}

including all the forms of declension; TDNT - 5:886,795; adj
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things,
everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types..... {{{ or some of EACH TRIBE }}}

++++
... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go after
Christ? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."
Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,
little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does
the whole world there mean everybody?

The words "world" and "all" are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very
rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts -- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...
C.H. Spurgeon from a sermon on Particular Redemption
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:—all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #3956.

The ALL is referring unto Israel repenting, God accepts a 1/3 as Israel repenting, that percentage will be much higher than the Gentile nations, we have 8 Billion people and 2 Billion Christians (25 percent) BUT................of that number, 5 of the 10 are FAKE Christians. So, only 1/8th of gentiles actually get raptured, whilst 1/3 of Jews come unto Christ. As long as ALL 12 Tribes have people in that 1/3 ALL Israel has been preserved as a Nation.

But it is not what 11:26 is about. 'kai houtos' is referring to manner--partly blind. He has established as far back as Rom 3:3 that there is not automatic faith being born Jewish. You have to be faith-based to be in the olive tree. I don't think you understand it. He also sees it all resolved in the present, as vs 29-30 show.

You must not read replies in full or you would not have replied as such here, I clearly and concisely state that the Jews and Gentiles both can only enter Heaven as a part of the family by coming unto God by FAITH ALONE !!

So, you can't have read the posts in full, and trying to reply to a post we d nit red should be a NO-NO.

The issue is Israel's CALLING is not the same CALLING as the Churches per se (I add in per se because sone Jews are Messianic Jews, but Israel as a nation will not be of God, as a nation, unto after the Pre Trib Rapture, their CALLING is two fold Birth the Messiah (CHECK) and to bring in the Kingdom Age soon to be a CHECK) Our calling was to REPLACE an UNBELIEVING Israel between these two calling which NO ONE ELSE could fulfill, Jesus had to be a Jew and the Kingdom Age nation has to be of the loins of Abraham, else God is a liar. So, we took over the Gospel portion only. When that is fulfilled, we will be raptured to marry Jesus.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

This is a misinterpretation at best.
You’re right in a sense. The church does not replace Israel. Spiritual Israel has always been the church. The national Israel has always been just that, national Israel.
And the promises to Israel has always been to spiritual Israel. Which has been fulfilled in Christ.

Israel and the Church have different callings, God only called on the "Gentile people He knew not" because Israel would not repent and live by faith, so how can a nation take a Gospel unto the whole world, in which faith is the cornerstone, yet they still trust in the Law [of Moses]. So, if Israel would have been given this task here is what would have happened lets say God doesn't judge Israel in 70 AD and left her alone, eventually the Gospel put forth by the disciples would have been perverted by Judaism legalisms, we see Paul warning the Galatians about this very thing in Gal. ch. 3. So, God sent Israel packing and turned this chore over to the Gentiles (mostly).

But, no Gentile could fulfill the other calling of Israel. No one but a Jew from the same tribe of David could birth the Messiah. So, once that was fulfilled, then the Gospel could be delivered by a peoples God had not known [in a personal relationship type of way]. Once that effort is finished (Matt. 24:14) then the Gentiles will be raptured, we can also NOT FULFILL the Kingdom Age promise, that nation has to have seed from the loins of Abraham or else God is a liar. The Promise to Abraham are about his SEED, which is human beings. We all must come unto Christ by faith alone we agree, but the Gentile Church has ONE CALLING on this earth, to take the Gospel unto the whole world, Israel had to birth the Messiah, they could have ushered in the Kingdom Age in 70 AD but they refused to repent and live by faith, so they were replaced by the Potter (God) but only a Jewish nation can fulfill the Kingdom Age.

 

[Eleanor]

I'm having a hard time seeing this. I suppose it is related to the question of Romans saying that apart from the law transgression is not accounted —at least, to me it can be seen the same way. Those who sinned apart from the law, nevertheless sinned.

Ro 5:12-14 is to show that the sin which was in the world was the sin of Adam imputed to them, that they died because of the imputation of Adam's sin, for no sin was accounted to them from Adam to Moses.

Those who came before the notion of "called-out-assembly" was made official, it seems reasonable to say, were still, nevertheless, members of it

There was neither law nor covenant from Adam to Moses, which is why there was no sin (Ro 5:14).
All were "Gentiles;" i.e., nations, and salvation was by faith in the promise (Ge 3:15, seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).

From these Gentiles, God called out Abram to begin his assembly of the people of God, whom he would prepare for redemption by faith in the Messiah, who would come from them and save his people from their sin (Mt 1:21).

So we have salvation by faith in the promise of Ge 3:15 from Adam to Abraham, and by faith in the promise of Ge 15:5 from Abraham to Christ, both of which were faith in Christ, the Promise (Ge 3:15, 15:5).
So from Adam to Christ, salvation is by faith in the promise (Jesus Christ).
Those of faith in that promise are the "people of God," but only those from Abraham to Christ are the particular covenant called-out assembly separate from the world to be an assembly before God.
The covenant assembly does not guarantee salvation, which is only by faith, it is simply a people physically separated from the world and to God for his purposes.

I could be wrong about this, because I have many unanswered questions about Heaven —who is what, and so on. But to me the elect, from Adam till the end, has always been the one Body. And they all sin the same sin (rebellion against God), and their salvation is always Christ, and their faith is always the work of the Spirit of God, and the gospel has always been one gospel. Only one way to Heaven.

Yes, those from Adam to Christ are saved by faith and are the sons of God, not all called-out and physically separated from the world as was Israel.

Are you sure about that? Do you know what covenant means?

I don't mean to be insulting, I believe you do know what it means. But just consider it for a moment.

In Scripture, a covenant is a promise, but not every promise is a covenant.

God gave law to Adam in the Garden, Scripture does not call it a covenant.
His disobedience resulted in our fallen nature.
The imputation of his sin resulted in our condemnation from birth (Ro 5:18, Eph 2:3).

 

[EarlyActs]

Israel and the Church have different callings, God only called on the "Gentile people He knew not" because Israel would not repent and live by faith, so how can a nation take a Gospel unto the whole world, in which faith is the cornerstone, yet they still trust in the Law [of Moses]. So, if Israel would have been given this task here is what would have happened lets say God doesn't judge Israel in 70 AD and left her alone, eventually the Gospel put forth by the disciples would have been perverted by Judaism legalisms, we see Paul warning the Galatians about this very thing in Gal. ch. 3. So, God sent Israel packing and turned this chore over to the Gentiles (mostly).

But, no Gentile could fulfill the other calling of Israel. No one but a Jew from the same tribe of David could birth the Messiah. So, once that was fulfilled, then the Gospel could be delivered by a peoples God had not known [in a personal relationship type of way]. Once that effort is finished (Matt. 24:14) then the Gentiles will be raptured, we can also NOT FULFILL the Kingdom Age promise, that nation has to have seed from the loins of Abraham or else God is a liar. The Promise to Abraham are about his SEED, which is human beings. We all must come unto Christ by faith alone we agree, but the Gentile Church has ONE CALLING on this earth, to take the Gospel unto the whole world, Israel had to birth the Messiah, they could have ushered in the Kingdom Age in 70 AD but they refused to repent and live by faith, so they were replaced by the Potter (God) but only a Jewish nation can fulfill the Kingdom Age.

I know how to read the sense of all. He meant the ones who believed. That is what 'in this way' is referring to. The blind ones will not. It's not complicated.

 

[EarlyActs]

Israel and the Church have different callings, God only called on the "Gentile people He knew not" because Israel would not repent and live by faith, so how can a nation take a Gospel unto the whole world, in which faith is the cornerstone, yet they still trust in the Law [of Moses]. So, if Israel would have been given this task here is what would have happened lets say God doesn't judge Israel in 70 AD and left her alone, eventually the Gospel put forth by the disciples would have been perverted by Judaism legalisms, we see Paul warning the Galatians about this very thing in Gal. ch. 3. So, God sent Israel packing and turned this chore over to the Gentiles (mostly).

But, no Gentile could fulfill the other calling of Israel. No one but a Jew from the same tribe of David could birth the Messiah. So, once that was fulfilled, then the Gospel could be delivered by a peoples God had not known [in a personal relationship type of way]. Once that effort is finished (Matt. 24:14) then the Gentiles will be raptured, we can also NOT FULFILL the Kingdom Age promise, that nation has to have seed from the loins of Abraham or else God is a liar. The Promise to Abraham are about his SEED, which is human beings. We all must come unto Christ by faith alone we agree, but the Gentile Church has ONE CALLING on this earth, to take the Gospel unto the whole world, Israel had to birth the Messiah, they could have ushered in the Kingdom Age in 70 AD but they refused to repent and live by faith, so they were replaced by the Potter (God) but only a Jewish nation can fulfill the Kingdom Age.

You seem to have no idea of how the NT speaks of the Seed. Most folks have no idea what is going on in Gal 3. Well, the ID of the Seed is one of them.

The kingdom of God came when Dan 2 said, right in the middle of the Roman. It challenged it and is superior, but every thing we know about the kingdom of God is that there is also suffering. Christ was enthroned by the resurrection, to notify the nations that he deserves honor.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

You seem to have no idea of how the NT speaks of the Seed. Most folks have no idea what is going on in Gal 3. Well, the ID of the Seed is one of them.

The kingdom of God came when Dan 2 said, right in the middle of the Roman. It challenged it and is superior, but every thing we know about the kingdom of God is that there is also suffering. Christ was enthroned by the resurrection, to notify the nations that he deserves honor.

Satan is still the god of this world, as Paul stated, as Satan told Jesus in Luke 4. You guys take words and c=verse out of context, yes the Kingdom of God is come (unto those of us who accept Jesus by faith, ONLY), the rest of the world serves Satan. Now go read Rev. 11 it says very clearly that God takes back this earth an d Babylon (Satan's Dark Kingdom of Confusion) falls. Now watch how I prove everything I say with scriptures.

Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

So, when does God take back the deed unto this earth from Satan? At the 7th Trump !! Look around, do you really think God rule this evil earth?

God gave Adam DOMINION over this whole earth in Genesis, Satan tricked him out of his Dominion. Thus Satan told Jesus he was GIVEN all of these Kingdoms.

I do not just guess brother, I understand via 40 year of study and prayer.

 

[Carbon]

Satan is still the god of this world, as Paul stated, as Satan told Jesus in Luke 4. You guys take words and c=verse out of context, yes the Kingdom of God is come (unto those of us who accept Jesus by faith, ONLY), the rest of the world serves Satan. Now go read Rev. 11 it says very clearly that God takes back this earth an d Babylon (Satan's Dark Kingdom of Confusion) falls. Now watch how I prove everything I say with scriptures.

Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

So, when does God take back the deed unto this earth from Satan? At the 7th Trump !! Look around, do you really think God rule this evil earth?

God gave Adam DOMINION over this whole earth in Genesis, Satan tricked him out of his Dominion. Thus Satan told Jesus he was GIVEN all of these Kingdoms.

I do not just guess brother, I understand via 40 year of study and prayer.

Why are you so concerned with the devil? He is God's devil, he is on a leash. He has been bound at the cross. You give the devil to much credit.
Listen to what Jesus had to say. I'm sure you read this a few times in your 40 years of study but consider it again.

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. (you see, there is nothing Satan can do here, Jesus was revealed to them by the Father)
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (What did Jesus say? First, he will build his church on Peter's confession - which is, all that the Father reveals Christ to. "regeneration". And guess what? The gates of hell shall not prevail again it.)
Matthew 16.

It doesn't look to me like God's devil is in charge of much. In fact, he is very limited.


I know, you will probably throw this verse at me, right?
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4:4.

The devil, the chief of the reprobates, who in this corrupt world holds the position he is allowed, which all the reprobates yield obedience to their god.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

Why are you so concerned with the devil? He is God's devil, he is on a leash. He has been bound at the cross. You give the devil to much credit.

He's going to take billions of people to hell, we cat defeat a foe we refuse to admit is ruling over this earth as we speak. He won the title deed to this earth. God has to allow free will, God is just s He must prove all of His actions to be just. Allowing Satan 6000 years of rule on this earth, with murder mayhem, lies, evil etc. will be juxtaposed against Jesus' 1000 year reign with no murder, no greed, no lies, no hate etc. and this is what condemns Satan to an eventual eternity in hell. Satan is not bound by the cross, he is the god of this world as Paul states, he was defeated at the cross, but then again he was defeated when he sinned against God. He is still the gid of this evil world, that is why we see 7 CROWNS on the 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast of Rev. 12. The Rev. 13 man Beast/Little Horn has 10 CROWNS on the horns or kings because the 10 represents complete Europe reunited (E.U.). The Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17 has NO CROWNS because he is only a king of the bottomless pit (Apollyon).

Being factual is not giving credit, he's a weak punk, to us in Christ, but he kills millions and eventually billions.

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. (you see, there is nothing Satan can do here, Jesus was revealed to them by the Father)
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (What did Jesus say? First, he will build his church on Peter's confession - which is, all that the Father reveals Christ to. "regeneration". And guess what? The gates of hell shall not prevail again it.)
Matthew 16.

Satan can not OVERCOME the Church, he however KILLED all the Disciples save for John. He deceives many, including Peter who went against Jesus' wishes by cutting off the ear of one of the men who came for Jesus, Jesus told Peter "Get the Behind me Satan". So, do not kid yourself, Satan is the god of this evil world because this world loves evil.

It doesn't look to me like God's devil is in charge of much. In fact, he is very limited.


I know, you will probably throw this verse at me, right?
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4:4.

The devil, the chief of the reprobates, who in this corrupt world holds the position he is allowed, which all the reprobates yield obedience to their god.

You are looking at it in shortsightedness, you know we all overcome Satan. I am looking from e angle of men and women who are in the same condition we used to be in. As a young Christian I walked through my home town in Fridays and Saturdays like 35 years ago, and the Holy Spirit in me was grieved at the kids partying etc. etc. and I could feel His grief so much I would just start crying, He was weeping for lost souls.

When Satan can get the kings of the WHOLE WORLD to try and defeat their own loving Creator he has blinded these men unto the truth. We know he loses, we know he's really a weakling, but he is taking billions of people to hell, that is a real time problem. God states He would not have any man go to hell, so Satan is working very hard. We have to look at this from the Lost Souls perspective, or we will never understand how powerful this demon entity is, he has them BOUND in sin, desperate, lonely, depressed, in dire straights, so to them he is the STRONG MAN. He has 6.5 - 7 billion people bound as we speak. Narrow is the way and few that find it, so this so called weakling is taking our fellow human beings to hell at an alarming rate. He is not weak unto them, he is weak unto us because we understand the power in the name of Jesus. So if we just sit around and say God's in charge we will lose those souls. God could have defeated Israel's foes, but as soon as Moses staff came down Israel started losing, so Joshua and Arron had to help hold it up in order to bring victory. Or we holding the staff up or just assuming God is going to take care of it all?

 

[Carbon]

He's going to take billions of people to hell,

Yea, probably.

we cat defeat a foe we refuse to admit is ruling over this earth as we speak.

He is already defeated.

He won the title deed to this earth. God has to allow free will,

Free will? Says who?

God is just s He must prove all of His actions to be just.

God doesn't have to prove anything. Whatever God does is good, because that is His nature.

Allowing Satan 6000 years of rule on this earth, with murder mayhem, lies, evil etc. will be juxtaposed against Jesus' 1000 year reign with no murder, no greed, no lies, no hate etc. and this is what condemns Satan to an eventual eternity in hell.

Why Satan is going to eternal hell because God is glorified in His justice. And Satan is evil. And as far as the millennium (1000) years is concerned, I believe we are in it am Amil.

Satan is not bound by the cross, he is the god of this world as Paul states, he was defeated at the cross, but then again he was defeated when he sinned against God.

But he is, scripture teaches such. Why do you disagree?

He is still the gid of this evil world, that is why we see 7 CROWNS on the 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast of Rev. 12. The Rev. 13 man Beast/Little Horn has 10 CROWNS on the horns or kings because the 10 represents complete Europe reunited (E.U.). The Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17 has NO CROWNS because he is only a king of the bottomless pit (Apollyon).

You're a true dispensationalist.

Being factual is not giving credit, he's a weak punk, to us in Christ, but he kills millions and eventually billions.

The reprobates only.

Satan can not OVERCOME the Church, he however KILLED all the Disciples save for John.
He deceives many, including Peter who went against Jesus' wishes by cutting off the ear of one of the men who came for Jesus, Jesus told Peter "Get the Behind me Satan". So, do not kid yourself, Satan is the god of this evil world because this world loves evil.

IMO you do not know what the god of this world means in scripture. You think satan has control over this world but Jesus shut him up. You contradict yourself.

You are looking at it in shortsightedness, you know we all overcome Satan. I am looking from e angle of men and women who are in the same condition we used to be in. As a young Christian I walked through my home town in Fridays and Saturdays like 35 years ago, and the Holy Spirit in me was grieved at the kids partying etc. etc. and I could feel His grief so much I would just start crying, He was weeping for lost souls.

News flash. We live in a fallen world. It is sinful and horrible, yes.

When Satan can get the kings of the WHOLE WORLD to try and defeat their own loving Creator he has blinded these men unto the truth. We know he loses, we know he's really a weakling, but he is taking billions of people to hell, that is a real time problem.

Those billions are all reprobates bud.

God states He would not have any man go to hell,

He does?
Really? Please show me that one.

so Satan is working very hard.

Of course. But he can only do what he is allowed to do. And it is in accordance with God's plan.

We have to look at this from the Lost Souls perspective, or we will never understand how powerful this demon entity is, he has them BOUND in sin, desperate, lonely, depressed, in dire straights, so to them he is the STRONG MAN.

You don't realize how powerful he is. Do you realize if he wasn't restrained, you would be here talking about it? His strength is beyond your imagination. But he is limited.

He has 6.5 - 7 billion people bound as we speak. Narrow is the way and few that find it, so this so called weakling is taking our fellow human beings to hell at an alarming rate. He is not weak unto them, he is weak unto us because we understand the power in the name of Jesus. So if we just sit around and say God's in charge we will lose those souls.

Why would you sit around?

God could have defeated Israel's foes, but as soon as Moses staff came down Israel started losing, so Joshua and Arron had to help hold it up in order to bring victory. Or we holding the staff up or just assuming God is going to take care of it all?

That's a silly thought.

 

[Marilyn C]

He's going to take billions of people to hell,

He has 6.5 - 7 billion people bound as we speak. Narrow is the way and few that find it,

`Narrow is the way,` refers to Jesus talking to Israel. (Matt. 7: 14)

As to `billions going to hell,` well life is not yet finished and remember in the trib, there is a great multitude that no one can count who turn to God. (Rev. 7: 9 - 16)

 

[Marilyn C]

Yea, probably.

And as far as the millennium (1000) years is concerned, I believe we are in it am Amil.

So, does that mean you believe the trib, has already happened?

 

[EarlyActs]

Satan is still the god of this world, as Paul stated, as Satan told Jesus in Luke 4. You guys take words and c=verse out of context, yes the Kingdom of God is come (unto those of us who accept Jesus by faith, ONLY), the rest of the world serves Satan. Now go read Rev. 11 it says very clearly that God takes back this earth an d Babylon (Satan's Dark Kingdom of Confusion) falls. Now watch how I prove everything I say with scriptures.

Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

So, when does God take back the deed unto this earth from Satan? At the 7th Trump !! Look around, do you really think God rule this evil earth?

God gave Adam DOMINION over this whole earth in Genesis, Satan tricked him out of his Dominion. Thus Satan told Jesus he was GIVEN all of these Kingdoms.

I do not just guess brother, I understand via 40 year of study and prayer.

I encourage you to compare your view against The historian Barnett in BEHIND THE SCENES OF THE NT “Patmos”. The Rev had very specific historic meaning as the 1st page says.

Acts 2:30,31 is saying that the resurrection was the enthronement of Christ so that all rulers and people should submit to him, lest he dash them to pieces. That’s it. It had nothing to do with figuring out Israel’s times which 1:8-9 prohibits.

 

[Carbon]

So, does that mean you believe the trib, has already happened?

Has already happened? No.

We are in the tribulation.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

He is already defeated.

Meaning we can't reach lost souls, which defeats Satan's goals. Remember, he is condemned, has no hope, he knows this, he is desperate, so what is his play? Like all narcissists, he thinks if he can sway the majority he wins the debate, he hopes to kill all of the Jews, this would make God's promises a lie. That is why he tried to altar mankind's DNA which caused the flood and Demons being locked in the pit. Without a DNA from Adam, Abraham etc. Jesus could not have been birthed. He tried killing of Israel over, and over. He though he had won in 70 AD and at the cross, lol. He now understands his only hope is to kill off all the Jews, but alas he knows its futile, but its his only hope.

So, when I say we can not defeat a foe we refuse to acknowledge is a powerful entity, that goes without saying I am speaking of before Jesus shows up to defeat him, we are losing ground but why? Why is the world getting far more evil? Why have will allowed 1 Billion Abortions? Homosexual Marriage? Our kids being sexualized in schools? Because we are not fighting Satan in the spiritual realm, we have power and we just so not use it. And w elect evil human beings as pols. Our mandate is to spread the gospel, we are seemingly more content to sit in our churches four walls or 50 walls (SMILE at the waste) whereas 100, 200 and 300 years ago we went unto the peoples, we put our lives on the line as a church, in faith. Not so much now. He is defeated, but he is defeating many Christians who live lives with no joy, no peace etc.

Free will? Says who?

If you do not understand not only do we all have free will, but without that free will God would not be a just God then I can't explain it unto you brother. Either we have free will to chose God or Satan, or we are mere computer like generated people

God doesn't have to prove anything. Whatever God does is good, because that is His nature.

God created the Angels, when 1/3 fell He did not immediately just kill the all, why? Because they are eternal being, like us Humans. God who foresees all things understand via His innate abilities that in order to be just, he has to appear just, He can't just say, well, this is what sin would lead unto, so you can not choose evil over righteousness, that does not create what God want's Loving Relationships, so God needed to show why He is just in all of His ways, and that is what He has done on earth, men who followed Satan shows what sin leads unto. Its proves to others, not God who already new, that He is just in al of His ways. Like a father saying unto a kid, do not go into that mineshaft, it is dangerous, but we then do nit lock our kids in a room forever to make sure thy never go into that old mine shaft, that is not life !! So, when he does go in there, and lets say gets trapped, he learns a huge lesson why he should have listened to his daddy. That is the only way a just God can be, He has to give FREE WILL or else we are all just computer generated slaves. This is also why we have to come unto God by faith alone, if God revealed Himself in an authoritative way every day, all men would say I serve God, but in their hearts they would be like Satan and some would despise God.

Why Satan is going to eternal hell because God is glorified in His justice. And Satan is evil. And as far as the millennium (1000) years is concerned, I believe we are in it am Amil.

A just God can't just say BECAUSE I SAID SO..........Does a dad say that or does he teach WHY? If God wanted to bind Satan he could have long ago, so he is showing us all and teaching us why we can not live life outside of Gods ways, which is holy and pure.

But he is, scripture teaches such. Why do you disagree?

No, he is the god of this world, currently.

You're a true dispensationalist.

I will let you use tags, been preaching nigh 40 years, I see things as Past, things as Present and things as Future. I will allow others to worry about name tags, I SMH at them because I think people who have no rebut try to conflate the facts by throwing them out there. Its not my bag.

The reprobates only.

We are all sinners, God fore chooses no one that is what Calvin taught but it is not factual.

He does?
Really? Please show me that one.

2 Peter 3:9 states, “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”

Pretty obvious stuff.

IMO you do not know what the god of this world means in scripture. You think satan has control over this world but Jesus shut him up. You contradict yourself.

I know exactly what it means. We have to come unto Christ, or else we are Satan's, because we are born into Sun Nature, not into God Nature. We have sun stained flesh.

You don't realize how powerful he is. Do you realize if he wasn't restrained, you would be here talking about it? His strength is beyond your imagination. But he is limited.

Satan is only restrained by those who know Christ and the Holy Spirit protects us, he is the god of this vworld.

That's a silly thought.

That a FACTOID.

 

[Marilyn C]

Has already happened? No.

We are in the tribulation.

Yes, tribulation in general, however what about the time the Lord said regarding the A/D and `For there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21) ?

 

[Eleanor]

Meaning we can't reach lost souls, which defeats Satan's goals. Remember, he is condemned, has no hope, he knows this, he is desperate, so what is his play? Like all narcissists, he thinks if he can sway the majority he wins the debate, he hopes to kill all of the Jews, this would make God's promises a lie. That is why he tried to altar mankind's DNA which caused the flood and Demons being locked in the pit. Without a DNA from Adam, Abraham etc. Jesus could not have been birthed. He tried killing of Israel over, and over. He though he had won in 70 AD and at the cross, lol. He now understands his only hope is to kill off all the Jews, but alas he knows its futile, but its his only hope.

So, when I say we can not defeat a foe we refuse to acknowledge is a powerful entity, that goes without saying I am speaking of before Jesus shows up to defeat him, we are losing ground but why? Why is the world getting far more evil? Why have will allowed 1 Billion Abortions? Homosexual Marriage? Our kids being sexualized in schools? Because we are not fighting Satan in the spiritual realm, we have power and we just so not use it. And w elect evil human beings as pols. Our mandate is to spread the gospel, we are seemingly more content to sit in our churches four walls or 50 walls (SMILE at the waste) whereas 100, 200 and 300 years ago we went unto the peoples, we put our lives on the line as a church, in faith. Not so much now. He is defeated, but he is defeating many Christians who live lives with no joy, no peace etc.

If you do not understand not only do we all have free will, but without that free will God would not be a just God

Who made that rule?

then I can't explain it unto you brother. Either we have free will to chose God or Satan, or we are mere computer like generated people
God created the Angels, when 1/3 fell He did not immediately just kill the all, why? Because they are eternal being, like us Humans. God who foresees all things understand via His innate abilities that in order to be just, he has to appear just, He can't just say, well, this is what sin would lead unto, so you can not choose evil over righteousness, that does not create what God want's Loving Relationships, so God needed to show why He is just in all of His ways, and that is what He has done on earth, men who followed Satan shows what sin leads unto. Its proves to others, not God who already new, that He is just in al of His ways. Like a father saying unto a kid, do not go into that mineshaft, it is dangerous, but we then do nit lock our kids in a room forever to make sure thy never go into that old mine shaft, that is not life !! So, when he does go in there, and lets say gets trapped, he learns a huge lesson why he should have listened to his daddy. That is the only way a just God can be, He has to give FREE WILL or else we are all just computer generated slaves. This is also why we have to come unto God by faith alone, if God revealed Himself in an authoritative way every day, all men would say I serve God, but in their hearts they would be like Satan and some would despise God.


A just God can't just say BECAUSE I SAID SO..........Does a dad say that or does he teach WHY? If God wanted to bind Satan he could have long ago, so he is showing us all and teaching us why we can not live life outside of Gods ways, which is holy and pure.


No, he is the god of this world, currently.


I will let you use tags, been preaching nigh 40 years, I see things as Past, things as Present and things as Future. I will allow others to worry about name tags, I SMH at them because I think people who have no rebut try to conflate the facts by throwing them out there. Its not my bag.


We are all sinners, God fore chooses no one that is what Calvin taught but it is not factual.


2 Peter 3:9 states, “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”

Pretty obvious stuff.



I know exactly what it means. We have to come unto Christ, or else we are Satan's, because we are born into Sun Nature, not into God Nature. We have sun stained flesh.



Satan is only restrained by those who know Christ and the Holy Spirit protects us, he is the god of this vworld.


That a FACTOID.

 

[Carbon]

Who made that rule?

Right

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

Who made that rule?

Do you have free will Elanor? We can all chose to serve God or to serve Satan, this goes without saying. God in his immutable Righteousness has to give free will. You see (this is VERY IMPORTANT) God does not condemn us to hell, we condemn ourselves to an absence from God (which is hell in essence, no love, no joy, no peace etc.) by rejecting His free pardon. If a Warden told every death row inmate his sentence would be commuted, all he had to do was sign the papers tat pardoned him, and he refused to do so, who condemned that mean to the Electric Chair? Well of course he rejected the free pardon, so he condemned himself.

God can not come into the presence of sin, no sin flesh can enter heaven, those who think we fly off to heaven are in error, our spirit man goes to be with the Lord at the Rapture, we leave our bodies on this earth. 1 Cor. 15 proves this. God would not be a just God if He forced servitude, just like Slavery is unjust. God wants FELLOWSHIP with men, he doe not want to be our taskmaster.

 

[Eleanor]

Do you have free will Elanor?

Is it about me having it, or is it about God being unjust if I don't have it?

We can all chose to serve God or to serve Satan, this goes without saying. God in his immutable Righteousness has to give free will. You see (this is VERY IMPORTANT) God does not condemn us to hell, we condemn ourselves to an absence from God (which is hell in essence, no love, no joy, no peace etc.) by rejecting His free pardon. If a Warden told every death row inmate his sentence would be commuted, all he had to do was sign the papers tat pardoned him, and he refused to do so, who condemned that mean to the Electric Chair? Well of course he rejected the free pardon, so he condemned himself.

God can not come into the presence of sin, no sin flesh can enter heaven, those who think we fly off to heaven are in error, our spirit man goes to be with the Lord at the Rapture, we leave our bodies on this earth.

According to authoritative NT apostolic teaching, the rapture of the saints is of our bodies reunited with their spirits at the resurrection at the end of time (1 Th 4:15-17), where we ascend to meet the Lord in the clouds in his second coming (1 Th 4:17) and descend with him to the final judgment of the sheep and the goats.
Our human spirit departs our body at death, and the spirits of the redeemed go to be with Jesus Christ (1 Co 5:1-9).

1 Cor. 15 proves this.

1 Co 15 is about the resurrection and the spiritual (sinless) physical bodies, rather than natural (sinful) physical bodies, we will have in the resurrection.

God would not be a just God if He forced servitude, just like Slavery is unjust.

Nowhere does Scripture present slavery as unjust. In fact, it is often used in the NT as the model for obedience to Christ.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

Is it about me having it, or is it about God being unjust if I don't have it?

God has immutable qualities that make Him not only God but perfect and just. So, God can not lie, so we know Jesus is going to rile a 1000 years with Abrahams "real" seed, the physical ones, in Jerusalem. And that Babylon will never be inhabited as a city again. God is love, not hate, God is hope and life, not gloom, doom and death. So, why did Satan sin? He listened to the "anti-christ (Jesus is God the Son) or anti-God spirit that is also eternal, how so? Because anything that is not of God is anti-God, God is Holy, the opposite is evil, God can't lie, the opposite is untruth etc. The Anti-Christ spirit is not Satan, it us Satan hearing that he like the most high in his heart and agreeing with that spirit.

Why is it not just for God to program human being to do his will? The same exact reason slavery is always wrong. You can not have a fellowship and relationship with a task master. It is not possible. Else why are we even here? Gid could have created us to serve Him forever, but he couldn't because He is a just creator who only wants fellowship with His creation. You see, no one says God is unjust, I am telling you what attributes make God just, ones He can not violate and still be just. Men & women grasping that are not is not going to changes God immutable essence.

According to authoritative NT apostolic teaching, the rapture of the saints is of our bodies reunited with their spirits at the resurrection at the end of time (1 Th 4:15-17), where we ascend to meet the Lord in the clouds in his second coming (1 Th 4:17) and descend with him to the final judgment of the sheep and the goats.
Our human spirit departs our body at death, and the spirits of the redeemed go to be with Jesus Christ (1 Co 5:1-9).

No it is not, and I ca prove this via scriptures, the problem is people do not know how, in many cases to interpret the scriptures correctly. Also, no one goes straight to heaven, scriptures prove this, people see dreams or visions of their loved ones in Heaven, but only because God lives in all time at once, in this universe we have a Space Time Continuum.

1 Cor. 15 specifically states that our flesh and blood can not enter heaven, so that is why we need to be CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye, and thus we go to e with the Lord, in Heaven, as Spirit men, then receive our glorious bodies in heaven. 1 Cor. 15 also says the dead in Christ are raised as SPIRIT MEN, see below:

1 Cor. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption(Sin flesh); it is raised in incorruption(as Spirit men with NO Sin Flesh): 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.(SEE THAT, the Dead are raised as Spirit Men, Satan and his Demons travel without a body, we will journey to heaven as Spirit men, we will be there in a flash)

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed(We as in those living will be raised at the Rapture, ALONG with those who sleep or the dead, THAT IS WHAT CHANGE MEANS, we shed our sin flesh which is CORRUPTIBLE unlike the Dead in Christ who are raised without corruption or Sin Flesh)

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,(with no Sin Flesh, they are not in Heaven are they? They are raised as Spirit Men like vs. 44 says) and we shall be changed {{{ CHANGED from what t what? Well, we have Sin Flesg that CAN NOT enter Heaven, so we have to lose our sin flesh, which is why those dead in Christ are not CORRUPPTIBLE, they are raised as Spirit Men, like vs. 44 says, so we have to be CHANGED, and it all happens in less than a second, which means the Dead and Living re rally raptured at the exact same time. }}}

53 For this corruptible(Sin Flesh) must put on incorruption(Spirit Man), and this mortal must put on immortality.

We go to Heaven where we are in the Fathers mansions for 7 years, we receive our judgments and Glorious bodies, then we return at Armageddon with Jesus (Armageddon is the Marriage Supper).

1 Co 15 is about the resurrection and the spiritual (sinless) physical bodies, rather than natural (sinful) physical bodies, we will have in the resurrection.

The Rapture and Resurrection are the same. The 2nd Resurrection is 1000 years later, its the wicked being judged.

Nowhere does Scripture present slavery as unjust. In fact, it is often used in the NT as the model for obedience to Christ.

You are in error, God specifically has laws against slaver, servitude was nit slavery. Paul using a word is not a stand i for God's laws, it was illegal fir any Jew to sit in wait and capture another human being.