Daniel 9

[Eleanor]

Why do you keep ignoring the full context of Romans 9-11? What does that verse say? And all Israel will be saved.

"And thus (houtos - in the same manner, in the same way as 11:1-5, through a remnant ) all Israel will be saved."
And in light of Ro 3, that is all true Israel.
[/quote]

And no, the patriarchs are not the root of the tree, Jesus is. The root represents life. We don't get life from the patriarchs, we get life from Christ. He is our support, and the root provides support.

The metaphor of the tree is not a metaphor regarding the life of an organism, but a metaphor regarding the people of God, cutting off and grafting in.

 

[Carbon]

"And thus (houtos - in the same manner, in the same way as 11:1-5, through a remnant ) all Israel will be saved."
And in light of Ro 3, that is all true Israel.

Yes, I agree all Isreal shall be saved. This does not mean national Israel, but spiritual Israel.

 

[Eleanor]

I'm having a hard time seeing this. I suppose it is related to the question of Romans saying that apart from the law transgression is not accounted —at least, to me it can be seen the same way. Those who sinned apart from the law, nevertheless sinned. Those who came before the notion of "called-out-assembly" was made official, it seems reasonable to say, were still, nevertheless, members of it

Called out assembly is not a spiritual thing like the body of Christ.

It is simply a group of people separated from the world to be an assembly before God, as in the nation Israel.
Adam, Noah, Job, etc. were not part of either group (assembly, Israel), and there is no reason for them to be a part of those groups.

I could be wrong about this, because I have many unanswered questions about Heaven —who is what, and so on. But to me the elect, from Adam till the end, has always been the one Body.

However, this is not about the elect to salvation, any more than the nation Israel is elect to salvation.
The assembly (ekklesia) is Israel in the OT (Ac 7:38) and the church (ekklesia) in the NT (Ac 20:28).
It's the literal meaning of the word "church," which church goes all the way back to Abraham (Ro 11:16-23).

And they all sin the same sin (rebellion against God), and their salvation is always Christ, and their faith is always the work of the Spirit of God, and the gospel has always been one gospel. Only one way to Heaven.

It's the same as Adam, Noah, Job, etc. not being Israel.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes, I agree all Isreal shall be saved. This does not mean national Israel, but spiritual Israel.

That means the remnant, who are true Israel.

 

[Carbon]

That means the remnant, who are true Israel.

True Israel is all believers throughout history.

 

[Eleanor]

True Israel is all believers throughout history.

No, the body of Christ is true believers throughout history.
There was no covenant people between Adam and Abraham.

The called-out assembly (church) is the covenant people of God in the OT and the NT.
Those before Abraham were not in covenant with God.

True Israel are the believers of the covenants, beginning with the Abrahamic covenant and its temporary addition (Gal 3:19) the Mosaic covenant, both fulfilled, and now all true believers are in the New covenant.

Which does not mean no one was saved before Abraham.
They were saved by belief in the promise (Ge 3:25, seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).
They were in the body of Christ, but not in Israel.

 

[Carbon]

No, the body of Christ is true believers throughout history.
There was no covenant people between Adam and Abraham.

Are you sure about that? Do you know what covenant means?

I don't mean to be insulting, I believe you do know what it means. But just consider it for a moment.

 

[Carbon]

If I may. This is from the 1822 Noah Webster.

COVENANT, n. [L, to come; a coming together; a meeting or agreement of minds.]

1. A mutual consent or agreement of two or more persons, to do or to forbear some act or thing; a contract; stipulation. A covenant is created by deed in writing, sealed and executed; or it may be implied in the contract.

2. A writing containing the terms of agreement or contract between parties; or the clause of agreement in a deed containing the covenant.


3. In theology, the covenant of works, is that implied in the commands, prohibitions, and promises of God; the promise of God to man, that mans perfect obedience should entitle him to happiness. This do, and live; that do, and die.


The covenant of redemption, is the mutual agreement between the Father and Son, respecting the redemption of sinners by Christ.


The covenant of grace, is that by which God engages to bestow salvation on man, upon the condition that man shall believe in Christ and yield obedience to the terms of the gospel.


4. In church affairs, a solemn agreement between the members of a church, that they will walk together according to the precepts of the gospel, in brotherly affection.


COVENANT, v.i. To enter into a formal agreement; to stipulate; to bind ones self by contract. A covenants with B to convey to him a certain estate. When the terms are expressed ti has for before the thing or price.



They covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. Mat 26.


COVENANT, v.t. To grant or promise by covenant.

 

[Eleanor]

Are you sure about that?Do .you know what covenant means?

I take my meaning and existence of covenants from the OT and NT texts themselves.
I understand unilateral and bilateral, conditional and unconditional covenants.

 

[Eleanor]

If I may. This is from the 1822 Noah Webster.
COVENANT, n. [L, to come; a coming together; a meeting or agreement of minds.]
1. A mutual consent or agreement of two or more persons, to do or to forbear some act or thing; a contract; stipulation. A covenant is created by deed in writing, sealed and executed; or it may be implied in the contract.
2. A writing containing the terms of agreement or contract between parties; or the clause of agreement in a deed containing the covenant.
3. In theology, the covenant of works, is that implied in the commands, prohibitions, and promises of God; the promise of God to man, that mans perfect obedience should entitle him to happiness. This do, and live; that do, and die.
The covenant of redemption, is the mutual agreement between the Father and Son, respecting the redemption of sinners by Christ.
The covenant of grace, is that by which God engages to bestow salvation on man, upon the condition that man shall believe in Christ and yield obedience to the terms of the gospel.
4. In church affairs, a solemn agreement between the members of a church, that they will walk together according to the precepts of the gospel, in brotherly affection.

COVENANT, v.i. To enter into a formal agreement; to stipulate; to bind ones self by contract. A covenants with B to convey to him a certain estate. When the terms are expressed ti has for before the thing or price.
They covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. Mat 26.
COVENANT, v.t. To grant or promise by covenant.

I understand covenant as it is presented in Scripture:

Ge 9:8-17 - an unconditional promissory covenant never to destroy all earthly life with some natural catastrophe; its sign being the rainbow in the storm cloud.

Ge 15:9-21 - an unconditional promissory covenant to fulfill the land grant was "cut" (animals slaughtered) with Abraham, which slaughter indicated a self-maledictory oath: "May it be done to me if I do not keep my oath and pledge."

Ge 17 - a conditional pledge to be Abraham's God and the God of his descendants, conditioned on obedience; its sign being circumcision.

Ex 19-24 - a conditional divine pledge to be Israel's God, conditioned on obedience.

Nu 25:10-31 - an unconditional promissory covenant to maintain Phinehas' family in a lasting priesthood.

2 Sa 7:5-16 - an unconditional promissory covenant to David to establish and maintain the Davidic dynasty on the throne of Israel.

Jer 31:31-34 - an unconditional promissory covenant to Israel to establish his relationship with her on a new basis of writing his law on their hearts - a covenant of grace.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

There is only one people of God, going all the way back to Abraham, of both OT and NT saints, the church.
And all who believe become a part of the church, including all Jews.
There are not two peoples of God, on two tracks, with two destines.
That is contrary to everything the apostles teach.

IF they do not persist in unbelief, Israel will be grafted back into the one olive tree of God's people (Ro 11:23), the church, going all the way back to Abraham.
God has only one people, those saved by faith in Jesus Christ, of both OT and NT saints,
OT saints who believed in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Jesus Christ,Gal 3:16), and
NT saints who believe in Jesus Christ.

All this is true, we are ONE in Christ by Faith, but you are missing the thrust of the overall point. Maybe I can reduce it to a common number so to speak. We as [Gentile mostly] Christians are not all given the same calling, even though we all come unto Christ by faith alone. Israel's calling does not have to be the Gentile churches calling either, even though God clearly is not going to accept their repentance, except it come by faith alone. That is why, as you say, Paul says that if (when) Israel believes again they will be grafted back in. But, they only do this after the Pre Trib Rapture or time of the Gentiles comes full. Jesus rules in the Kingdom Age only with Jewish humans, and with Gentiles Martyrs who refuse to take the Mark of the Beast (Rev. 20:4 states this, he only needs so many of us with Glorious bodies on earth I guess). The best way for me to explain the separate the callings (Notice, I don't say we come unto God in a different manner, God just sees fit to give us different callings) is to show it in each of the Seven Feasts of God. Who can question the potter ?

The 7 Feasts of God were really just God having Israel practice future events that the Messiah would fulfill. They were called Holy Convocations (Dress Rehearsals) and thus Israel, unknowingly were showing the future world what was soon to come (well, in the next few thousand years). Remember, Jesus has to fulfill each Feast.

The Spring Feasts

1.) Feast of Passover (Jesus' blood is our Passover, he died on the exact day and time needed, therefore Fulfilled)
2.) Feast of Unleavened Bread (Jesus was unleavened, or without Sin, so this was fulfilled by Jesus)
3.) Feast of First-fruits (Jesus was the First-fruits of the Grave so this was fulfilled by Jesus)

Summer Harvest/Church Age

4.) Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/Church Age/Summer Harvest ( Jesus is fulfilling this now as we speak, he is our High Priest in heaven and we are harvesting souls for God and the kingdom during the Church Age. Notice, this feast was all alone on the calendar, and just like the Gentile Church Age is the only feast not brought to pass under the "Jewish times" of service unto God. What ended the Summer harvest every year? The Feast of Trumps, the whole no man knows the day nor hour comes from this, Israel were on Lunar time (God's time/Appointed times) so they never knew the exact day nor hour the New Moon would come in, so they sent two men u into the mountains to spy out the moon phases, when the new moon came in they sent word back, and the Jewish leaders commenced to blowing the Shofar or Trumps. They blew in 9 sets of 11 or 99 times, then on the "LAST TRUMP" they blew it longer & louder than the other 99 and this officially ended the Sumer Harvest (THINK Church Age ends via Jesus' Trump in Rev. 4:1).

Fall Feasts Jesus is yet to fulfill

5.) Feast of Trumps (Jesus fulfills this when he called his Bride the Church home, then Israel is back on the clock, it is God time, He alone appoints these things, way ahead of what we understand. Even the last two Feast are also very evident, they are the appointed times of God. Jesus fulfills this by calling us home in Rev. 4:1 via the Last Trump.)

6.) Feast of Atonement (Who needs to atone before Daniels 70th week can end? Israel, when do they repent? Well, Zech. 13:8-9 shows that 1/3 repent, and that the very next verse show the DOTL arrives as Zech. 14:1 shows us. So, the 7 Feasts showed us the whole history of the world, even the SEPERATED Gentile Church Age, which came in between the Three Spring Feasts Jesus fulfilled. Of course Jesus' blood is what atones their sins, thus he fulfills this.)

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (to TABERANACLE simply means to dwell with God, and since Jesus rules from Jerusalem for 1000 years in the Kingdom Age with his Jewish brothers, I would sat that is fulfilled by Jesus also.)

So, God of course gave the Jews a CALLING to birth the Messiah, they should have also BELIEVED and taken the Gospel of the Kingdom unto the whole world, but they FAILED, so God called another people He had not heretofore "known" [as His people]. Thus our calling as the Church was specifically to take the Gospel unto all the nations, soo to be fulfilled !! God's calling of a Kingdom Age is promised unto Jews only, not Gentiles, we will be in Heaven, with God (probably finishing off the New Jerusalem, after all as it descends it is called the Bride of Christ). Rev. 20:4 specifically says only those Martyrs who refuse the Mark of the Beast, thus no one not living on earth during the 70th week can qualify.

We are not that different, you just allow God's ability to call different people for different purposes to escape you when it comes to His ability to do that for nations. Pssstt, Israel married the Father long ago, they do not need to marry Jesus, they have the Fathers name on their forehead, the 144,000 is simply a code for ALL Israel who repents, just like the Woman is in Rev. 12. Jacob had two brides, the beloved in Rachel and the forced one in Leah. Individual Jews who come to Christ during the Church age will wed Jesus. Those Saints of old and those who repent during the 70th week, 3.5-5 million Jews, not 144,000 (THINK CODE as in 12 = Fulness 10 = Completeness and times it all out, it goes like this, 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 or ALL Israel who repents) will have the Fathers name on their foreheads.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

You did pretty good until the end. I don't see where Paul is looking to a distant future but just saying 'in this way' (the race-nation being partly blind) the other Israel of 9:6 will be saved; the way is: continued partial-blindness and the act that saves is the historic Redeemer who came to Zion to take away sins. It is the new covenant, which is present. Those are quotes from Isaiah. "Saved" in Romans is otherwise about the salvation of one person at a time. There is no reason to jump to a future, geographic Judean state.

The PARTLY BLIND is referring to any Jew being able to repent, thus they could not be fully blind because God being a just God of course has to always allow salvation to anyone who calls upon His name, so Israel are blinded IN PART. Well, what part? The Nation as a whole could not repent as a nation because God saw to it that they were dispersed. Lets say you and I was at a soccer match with 100,000 people, in Brazil. If the Gov. dispersed that crowd and never allowed another soccer/football match for 50 years, then even though a "few people" might do the Mexican Wave on their own, if Brazil refused to allow in any crowds to soccer matches for 50 years, there would be no Mexican Waves for at least 50 years. By God dispersing Israel the world over, they could not repent as a nation until 1948, and they still to this day have not repented, but they will do so when the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335. Paul clearly says ALL Israel will be saved, he is speaking of an event the whole nation participates in. The 1/3 repent, the 2/3 refuse to do so and will die, so says Zech. 13:8-9.

As confirmation that he means the present reality, have a look at the final lines of 11 (before the song). All that God is doing on this is now. The revocability is answered now. There is no automatic need to think about land promises! All men have now been bound over to sin, so that there can now be mercy on all (both groups). He does mean now!

As another confirmation, look how ch 12 opens, by referring back to the mercy. It is to sacrifice (your race-nations) status and fellowship with the other believers. It is not the distant future, it is now.

The early Christians succeeded in this and 'loved each other' which was the mark of the early church, not found outside, neither in Judaism nor the world.

When looking at Prophecy, never assume things are as they appear. For instance, which prophetic utterance carries more umph to it, one that prophesies of an even 2500 years away, or one that incorporates a 2500 year prophecy, with a 500 year prophesy placed inside it ? The later of course. A lot of people mistakenly think Zech. 13 is not END TIMES Prophecy because verses 6-7 speak about Jesus in the house of his friends, and the Shepard being struck down and the sheep therefore being scattered. But Zech. 13:1-5 then 8:9 are about End Time Events, how Israel atones in THAT DAY in vs 1, and how the 1/3 are protected by God in verses 8-9, and in the middle of all this we get a "flashback" to Jesus' death, which was still 500 years into the future at the time it was given, but it shows how the End Time Jews repentance came unto them, by a blood sacrifice that happened 2000 years before the events being spoken about in the end times. It confuses some, but it is end times. Likewise, Paul was simply laying down spiritual facts, in the very end, HOWEVER LONG THAT IS..........Israel will repent. Israel as a nation could not repent as a nation until 1948 at the earliest, and that is still too soon, Zech. 13:8-9 is when they repent, Zech.14:1 (the very next verse) says the DOTL arrives, so they repent just before the DOTL, just like Malachi 4:5-6 says, Elijah returns before the DOTL to get Israel to repent (1335).

Future work-outs of these problems are fraught with issues and not how the apostles thought. Nothing to do with it. No one in the NT has the sense that land promises to Israel were lost and God owes them.

Israel never got their fully promised lands because they disobeyed and did not kill every man, woman and child. They will get the full land allotment during the Kingdom Age under Jesus, from the Euphrates river unto a certain river in Egypt.

The original replacement theology issue is Gal 3:17; Judaizers deleted Abraham's Promise which results in the nations gaining salvation, and only valued the period of the Law, even though the other predates it some 430 years.

I do notice something interesting to ask about your system though: when Israel 'serves' what is the result compared with Gentiles doing so?

The reason I ask is that the fundamental error of the 2 people/program system is that everything turns into twos. On this one they would say God gets served at the temple. Have you read the NT? It has this moving, living temple meant to include all believing folks around the world. What would you go back for? Compare the Sabbath; it used to be a day. Now it is the rest we gain in Christ. You are saying God will go back on that?

No, its God's CHOICE, just like my calling is specifically unto Prophecy, your might be unto calling the youth to repentance, or healing etc. etc. but we both work for the edification of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Look at my reply above unto Elanor, I pretty much show in full how God calls us for different things, not only as a people, but as Nations, for instance, Jesus had t be birthed by a Virgin Jewish Woman of the tribe of David, no Gentile woman would have sufficed. Likewise, the Kingdom Age has been promised to Abraham, God will fulfill this.

 

[armylngst]

Huh? Romans 9:11?

No the three chapters. Romans 9-11. For instance, the beginning of Romans 11 does not make sense unless you read Romans 10 first. Romans 10 cements that when Paul is saying What shall we say then. God has not rejected His people, has He? he is speaking about the nation of Israel, not the church. And, one has to look at this rationally. Paul is speaking in binary. One has to remember that our human spirits want to find a gray area, but God is always black and white. Paul is telling us that the nation of Israel has not been rejected by God, and the proof is that Paul, who is a member of the nation of Israel, was not rejected. If the group (nation of Israel) was rejected, then every member of the nation of Israel (every last one) is rejected, and Paul would be rejected. But since Paul was not rejected, that proves that God has not rejected the nation of Israel. That does not mean that all of the nation of Israel, every last individual is saved, but that Israel has not been shut out of the Kingdom as a group. That is, if Nation of Israel is listed in someone's list of characteristics, they are not shut out of the kingdom for that. Sinner, non-believer, etc. those are what shut them out. Here, Paul states that it is unbelief that has them removed from the olive tree, not God rejecting them.

Paul's talking about the Jewish people starts from Romans 9. It is A LOT of context. The focus was on Romans 11 because it is there that we see Paul end with, and so all Israel will be saved. The nation of Israel will be saved, but, when combined with other scripture, we find that it is a remnant, the elect out of Israel. That is those who have not bowed the knee to Ba'al, those who have not rejected Christ outright and forever. They are the one's who turn from unbelief to belief, and are saved. However, it is at Christ's coming that all the remnant are finally gathered in. (Zechariah speaks to this, and others)

 

[armylngst]

"And thus (houtos - in the same manner, in the same way as 11:1-5, through a remnant ) all Israel will be saved."
And in light of Ro 3, that is all true Israel.

The metaphor of the tree is not a metaphor regarding the life of an organism, but a metaphor regarding the people of God, cutting off and grafting in.
[/QUOTE]
And you will know that in the metaphor, the Jewish people are the natural branches that were born of the olive tree, whereas the gentiles are foreign branches. And Paul does continue on with that analogy. The analogy of the farmer cutting off branches, and binding in foreign branches, and even re-adding old branches back in. It is an analogy.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

Yes, I agree all Isreal shall be saved. This does not mean national Israel, but spiritual Israel.

This is just a misinterpretation, at best, the Church does not replace Israel as a "Spiritual" Israel, the time or fulness of the Gentiles has to come to pass via the Pre Trib Rapture before Israel repents. Israel are the wheat that grows together with the tares until the very end. We the Church are the barley which does not have to be crushed in order to be sifted. That is why the 144,000 (3.5-5 million Jews who repent) also are the first-fruit of the Father.

We get our English word "tribulation" from a Greek word that was a machine called a "Tribulum" and it simply crushed wheat in order to get it ready to be sifted. So, there not only can be but is two separate first-fruits. Israel was not brought back from the "Dead Men's Bones" prophecy for no reason, there will be a Kingdom Age where Jesus rules amidst a human nation of Israel. We are not all Israel, we are the "gentile church" and we get Raptured to marry the Lamb, Israel are the Fathers bride, that is why they have the Fathers name on their foreheads. Trying to mesh the churches calling and Israel's calling is a fatal flaw in any doctrine, it loses he flow of God's happenings or in God's Prophesied Events to come, and leaves us in a fog haze, we will not see what is actually coming.

We will see very soon, so everyone be ready, Apophis is the DOTL (April 13, 2029) so I see a fall 2025 at the latest Rapture we can and should know the Season, just not the exact day nor hour.

And we all say, Come Lord come. Amen.

 

[armylngst]

This is just a misinterpretation, at best, the Church does not replace Israel as a "Spiritual" Israel, the time or fulness of the Gentiles has to come to pass via the Pre Trib Rapture before Israel repents. Israel are the wheat that grows together with the tares until the very end. We the Church are the barley which does not have to be crushed in order to be sifted. That is why the 144,000 (3.5-5 million Jews who repent) also are the first-fruit of the Father.

We get our English word "tribulation" from a Greek word that was a machine called a "Tribulum" and it simply crushed wheat in order to get it ready to be sifted. So, there not only can be but is two separate first-fruits. Israel was not brought back from the "Dead Men's Bones" prophecy for no reason, there will be a Kingdom Age where Jesus rules amidst a human nation of Israel. We are not all Israel, we are the "gentile church" and we get Raptured to marry the Lamb, Israel are the Fathers bride, that is why they have the Fathers name on their foreheads. Trying to mesh the churches calling and Israel's calling is a fatal flaw in any doctrine, it loses he flow of God's happenings or in God's Prophesied Events to come, and leaves us in a fog haze, we will not see what is actually coming.

We will see very soon, so everyone be ready, Apophis is the DOTL (April 13, 2029) so I see a fall 2025 at the latest Rapture we can and should know the Season, just not the exact day nor hour.

And we all say, Come Lord come. Amen.

I think the better way to understand it is that you have the church and non-believers. The non-believers are Gentiles, and the nation of Israel, the Jews. At this time, Jesus is gathering in the elect from the Gentiles, showing them mercy due to the disobedience of Israel, who rejected the gospel. Once Jesus is done with the Gentiles, then He will gather in the remnant of Israel, those who have not yet been saved and become part of the church. Within the church, there are both Gentiles and Jews, and they are one in Christ. Outside of the church, they are still divided. The partial blindness/hardness basically means that there are still Jews who will be saved, but God's main focus is the Gentiles. For Jesus it is the flock that is not a part of HIs flock, that He is gathering into the fold, before He returns to dealing with His flock.

 

[Eleanor]

All this is true, we are ONE in Christ by Faith, but you are missing the thrust of the overall point. Maybe I can reduce it to a common number so to speak. We as [Gentile mostly] Christians are not all given the same calling, even though we all come unto Christ by faith alone. Israel's calling does not have to be the Gentile churches calling either, even though God clearly is not going to accept their repentance, except it come by faith alone. That is why, as you say, Paul says that if (when) Israel believes again they will be grafted back in. But, they only do this after the Pre Trib Rapture or time of the Gentiles comes full. Jesus rules in the Kingdom Age only with Jewish humans, and with Gentiles Martyrs who refuse to take the Mark of the Beast (Rev. 20:4 states this, he only needs so many of us with Glorious bodies on earth I guess). The best way for me to explain the separate the callings (Notice, I don't say we come unto God in a different manner, God just sees fit to give us different callings) is to show it in each of the Seven Feasts of God. Who can question the potter ?

However, this is an overlay on Scripture, not presented in Scripture.

The 7 Feasts of God were really just God having Israel practice future events that the Messiah would fulfill. They were called Holy Convocations (Dress Rehearsals) and thus Israel, unknowingly were showing the future world what was soon to come (well, in the next few thousand years). Remember, Jesus has to fulfill each Feast.
The Spring Feasts
1.) Feast of Passover (Jesus' blood is our Passover, he died on the exact day and time needed, therefore Fulfilled)
2.) Feast of Unleavened Bread (Jesus was unleavened, or without Sin, so this was fulfilled by Jesus)
3.) Feast of First-fruits (Jesus was the First-fruits of the Grave so this was fulfilled by Jesus)
Summer Harvest/Church Age

4.) Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/Church Age/Summer Harvest ( Jesus is fulfilling this now as we speak, he is our High Priest in heaven and we are harvesting souls for God and the kingdom during the Church Age. Notice, this feast was all alone on the calendar, and just like the Gentile Church Age is the only feast not brought to pass under the "Jewish times" of service unto God. What ended the Summer harvest every year? The Feast of Trumps, the whole no man knows the day nor hour comes from this, Israel were on Lunar time (God's time/Appointed times) so they never knew the exact day nor hour the New Moon would come in, so they sent two men u into the mountains to spy out the moon phases, when the new moon came in they sent word back, and the Jewish leaders commenced to blowing the Shofar or Trumps. They blew in 9 sets of 11 or 99 times, then on the "LAST TRUMP" they blew it longer & louder than the other 99 and this officially ended the Sumer Harvest (THINK Church Age ends via Jesus' Trump in Rev. 4:1).

Fall Feasts Jesus is yet to fulfill

5.) Feast of Trumps (Jesus fulfills this when he called his Bride the Church home, then Israel is back on the clock, it is God time, He alone appoints these things, way ahead of what we understand. Even the last two Feast are also very evident, they are the appointed times of God. Jesus fulfills this by calling us home in Rev. 4:1 via the Last Trump.)

6.) Feast of Atonement (Who needs to atone before Daniels 70th week can end? Israel, when do they repent? Well, Zech. 13:8-9 shows that 1/3 repent, and that the very next verse show the DOTL arrives as Zech. 14:1 shows us. So, the 7 Feasts showed us the whole history of the world, even the SEPERATED Gentile Church Age, which came in between the Three Spring Feasts Jesus fulfilled. Of course Jesus' blood is what atones their sins, thus he fulfills this.)

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (to TABERANACLE simply means to dwell with God, and since Jesus rules from Jerusalem for 1000 years in the Kingdom Age with his Jewish brothers, I would sat that is fulfilled by Jesus also.)

So, God of course gave the Jews a CALLING to birth the Messiah, they should have also BELIEVED and taken the Gospel of the Kingdom unto the whole world,

However, nowhere is failure to take the gospel mentioned or presented, another overlay on Scripture.

but they FAILED, so God called another people He had not heretofore "known" [as His people]. Thus our calling as the Church was specifically to take the Gospel unto all the nations, soo to be fulfilled !! God's calling of a Kingdom Age is promised unto Jews only, not Gentiles, we will be in Heaven, with God (probably finishing off the New Jerusalem, after all as it descends it is called the Bride of Christ). Rev. 20:4 specifically says only those Martyrs who refuse the Mark of the Beast, thus no one not living on earth during the 70th week can qualify.

The NT issue with Israel is unbelief, which you set aside and overlay with another issue in its place.

We are not that different, you just allow God's ability to call different people for different purposes to escape you when it comes to His ability to do that for nations. Pssstt, Israel married the Father long ago, they do not need to marry Jesus, they have the Fathers name on their forehead, the 144,000 is simply a code for ALL Israel who repents, just like the Woman is in Rev. 12. Jacob had two brides, the beloved in Rachel and the forced one in Leah. Individual Jews who come to Christ during the Church age will wed Jesus. Those Saints of old and those who repent during the 70th week, 3.5-5 million Jews, not 144,000 (THINK CODE as in 12 = Fulness 10 = Completeness and times it all out, it goes like this, 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 or ALL Israel who repents) will have the Fathers name on their foreheads.

All of which is overlay, nowhere presented in authoritative NT apostolic teaching, and contrary to it.

 

[Carbon]

This is just a misinterpretation, at best, the Church does not replace Israel as a "Spiritual" Israel,

This is a misinterpretation at best.
You’re right in a sense. The church does not replace Israel. Spiritual Israel has always been the church. The national Israel has always been just that, national Israel.
And the promises to Israel has always been to spiritual Israel. Which has been fulfilled in Christ.

 

[Eleanor]

All this is true, we are ONE in Christ by Faith, but you are missing the thrust of the overall point. Maybe I can reduce it to a common number so to speak. We as [Gentile mostly] Christians are not all given the same calling, even though we all come unto Christ by faith alone. Israel's calling does not have to be the Gentile churches calling either, even though God clearly is not going to accept their repentance, except it come by faith alone. That is why, as you say, Paul says that if (when) Israel believes again they will be grafted back in. But, they only do this after the Pre Trib Rapture or time of the Gentiles comes full.

Thanks, but you have overlaid on the NT your interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretation, which interpretation is contrary to authoritative NT apostolic teaching.

Jesus rules in the Kingdom Age

The kingdom of God is here now (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20), invisible and within (Lk 17:20-21) the hearts where Jesus reigns and rules.
It is everlasting (Lk 1:33], and there is no other.
All this talk about a future earthly kingdom is based in personal interpretation of prophetic riddles, which are being interpreted contrary to authoritative NT apostolic teaching; e.g., Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20, Lk 17:20-21.

only with Jewish humans, and with Gentiles Martyrs who refuse to take the Mark of the Beast (Rev. 20:4 states this, he only needs so many of us with Glorious bodies on earth I guess). The best way for me to explain the separate the callings (Notice, I don't say we come unto God in a different manner, God just sees fit to give us different callings) is to show it in each of the Seven Feasts of God. Who can question the potter ?

 

[EarlyActs]

The PARTLY BLIND is referring to any Jew being able to repent, thus they could not be fully blind because God being a just God of course has to always allow salvation to anyone who calls upon His name, so Israel are blinded IN PART. Well, what part? The Nation as a whole could not repent as a nation because God saw to it that they were dispersed. Lets say you and I was at a soccer match with 100,000 people, in Brazil. If the Gov. dispersed that crowd and never allowed another soccer/football match for 50 years, then even though a "few people" might do the Mexican Wave on their own, if Brazil refused to allow in any crowds to soccer matches for 50 years, there would be no Mexican Waves for at least 50 years. By God dispersing Israel the world over, they could not repent as a nation until 1948, and they still to this day have not repented, but they will do so when the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335. Paul clearly says ALL Israel will be saved, he is speaking of an event the whole nation participates in. The 1/3 repent, the 2/3 refuse to do so and will die, so says Zech. 13:8-9.


When looking at Prophecy, never assume things are as they appear. For instance, which prophetic utterance carries more umph to it, one that prophesies of an even 2500 years away, or one that incorporates a 2500 year prophecy, with a 500 year prophesy placed inside it ? The later of course. A lot of people mistakenly think Zech. 13 is not END TIMES Prophecy because verses 6-7 speak about Jesus in the house of his friends, and the Shepard being struck down and the sheep therefore being scattered. But Zech. 13:1-5 then 8:9 are about End Time Events, how Israel atones in THAT DAY in vs 1, and how the 1/3 are protected by God in verses 8-9, and in the middle of all this we get a "flashback" to Jesus' death, which was still 500 years into the future at the time it was given, but it shows how the End Time Jews repentance came unto them, by a blood sacrifice that happened 2000 years before the events being spoken about in the end times. It confuses some, but it is end times. Likewise, Paul was simply laying down spiritual facts, in the very end, HOWEVER LONG THAT IS..........Israel will repent. Israel as a nation could not repent as a nation until 1948 at the earliest, and that is still too soon, Zech. 13:8-9 is when they repent, Zech.14:1 (the very next verse) says the DOTL arrives, so they repent just before the DOTL, just like Malachi 4:5-6 says, Elijah returns before the DOTL to get Israel to repent (1335).


Israel never got their fully promised lands because they disobeyed and did not kill every man, woman and child. They will get the full land allotment during the Kingdom Age under Jesus, from the Euphrates river unto a certain river in Egypt.

No, its God's CHOICE, just like my calling is specifically unto Prophecy, your might be unto calling the youth to repentance, or healing etc. etc. but we both work for the edification of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Look at my reply above unto Elanor, I pretty much show in full how God calls us for different things, not only as a people, but as Nations, for instance, Jesus had t be birthed by a Virgin Jewish Woman of the tribe of David, no Gentile woman would have sufficed. Likewise, the Kingdom Age has been promised to Abraham, God will fulfill this.

I don't know where to start. Let's try this: if one third repent, 2/3 perish. Is that "all" Israel? Come on, be sensible.

But it is not what 11:26 is about. 'kai houtos' is referring to manner--partly blind. He has established as far back as Rom 3:3 that there is not automatic faith being born Jewish. You have to be faith-based to be in the olive tree. I don't think you understand it. He also sees it all resolved in the present, as vs 29-30 show.