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Daniel 9

Carbon

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Daniel 9:27
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”


Question. Who is the he?
 
Daniel 9:27
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”


Question. Who is the he?
I believe it to b Antiochus Epehanies
 
Thats interesting, I never heard that before. Curious, why you would think that? :unsure:
First we have to ask ourselves why is there no New Testament reference to the 70Th week?

Anytime that there is no New testament backing of a prophecy from the Old Testament there is a reason for it and that is most likely because it was fulfilled in the Old Testament times.

We also have to ask ourselves does God want a future temple built and sacrifices reestablished since He put a stop to them back in 70AD by allowing the temple to be destroyed because Jesus fulfilled everything the temple stood for?

If a future temple will be built it will not be Gods temple but mans as we the church are now Gods temple. Thus if a future antichrist did desecrate a future temple it would not matter to God.

Daniel 9:27
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

The above verse only mentions a 7 year covenant nothing about a tribulation time period. It also mentions that the sacrifice will be stopped at the temple. Twice this has happened after the time Daniel wrote this verse and only once did one person stop it and that was Antiochus Epiphanies back in 167 BC.

Around the time of 170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) he was the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

In 167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

In 164 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

We have to ask ourselves who would the Jews living at that time think Daniel was writing about as Daniel was writing to the Jews and not to us?

I believe that the 70th week was fulfilled back during the times of the Maccabees and history matches exactly what Daniel prophesied
 
First we have to ask ourselves why is there no New Testament reference to the 70Th week?

Anytime that there is no New testament backing of a prophecy from the Old Testament there is a reason for it and that is most likely because it was fulfilled in the Old Testament times.

We also have to ask ourselves does God want a future temple built and sacrifices reestablished since He put a stop to them back in 70AD by allowing the temple to be destroyed because Jesus fulfilled everything the temple stood for?

If a future temple will be built it will not be Gods temple but mans as we the church are now Gods temple. Thus if a future antichrist did desecrate a future temple it would not matter to God.

Daniel 9:27
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

The above verse only mentions a 7 year covenant nothing about a tribulation time period. It also mentions that the sacrifice will be stopped at the temple. Twice this has happened after the time Daniel wrote this verse and only once did one person stop it and that was Antiochus Epiphanies back in 167 BC.

Around the time of 170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) he was the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

In 167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

In 164 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

We have to ask ourselves who would the Jews living at that time think Daniel was writing about as Daniel was writing to the Jews and not to us?

I believe that the 70th week was fulfilled back during the times of the Maccabees and history matches exactly what Daniel prophesied
Thanks for your explanation. But I disagree.
 
Who do I think the "he" is?

Jesus
Yes I have heard that thanks and I used to believe that too until I heard about Antiochus

Check out the thread I just posted it will help explain my view
 
Yes I have heard that thanks and I used to believe that too until I heard about Antiochus

Check out the thread I just posted it will help explain my view
Yes, I read that post #5
 
First we have to ask ourselves why is there no New Testament reference to the 70Th week?
There isnt? The whole OT is about Jesus, matter of fact Jesus is the central figure of the whole bible. If you would like we can go over Daniel 9.

Daniel 9:24-27
 
There isnt? The whole OT is about Jesus, matter of fact Jesus is the central figure of the whole bible. If you would like we can go over Daniel 9.

Daniel 9:24-27
Of course the whole OT is about Jesus what I was meaning is a direct tie of Jesus to the 70th week

Many times is the gospels it is referenced when Jesus fulfills an OT prophecy that didn’t happen with the 70th week

I have to leave now but I look forward to hearing what you think about my post. I learned it from a Christian Jew
 
Daniel 9:27
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”


Question. Who is the he?
Top of the Day to Ya, Carbon. I have morphed into Rufus over here <g>.

I believe the one who made a "strong covenant with many for one week" is none other than Jesus. He made that covenant at the Last Supper with his disciples...and, of course, by extension with all God's sheep. At the cross he put "an end to sacrifices and and offering", which God signified when he rent the thick curtain between the Holy Place and Holy of Holies from top to bottom. That supernatural acrt marked the beginning of the end of the Old Covenant era and the beginning of the New Covenant dispensation. 70 A.D., of course, marked the very end of the Old Covenant period.

Many misunderstand this passage due to the Hebrew parallelism between verses 26 and 27. In other words, 26a should be matched up to 27a, and 26b to 27b. When we match these texts up as I suggest, we a get a very different understanding of the prophecy, to wit:

Dan 9:26-27
26a After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. 27a He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

26b The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27b And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

NIV

These prophecies have already been fulfilled! In other words, the 70 Weeks is all history! Let me see if I can briefly explain this prophecy to you. Verses 26a and 27a are saying this:

1. 26a is saying that the Messiah will be cut off sometime after 69 weeks.

2. 27a He will confirm a covenant with many for one week. This covenant is made before he is cut off -- specifically at the Last Supper which technically was still in the first half of the 70th week. The way ancient Jews reckoned time,if an event occurred any time during a stipulated period, it fulfilled the entire period. So, by Christ making the New Covenant on the last day of the first half of the week, this would be reckoned by the Jews as him making it on the first day of the first half of the week. (Think of Christ's "three days" in the tomb. Yet, technically, the way the modern world reckons time, Christ was not in the tomb anywhere near 72 hours! But he was in the manner Jews reckoned time.) Anyway, the very next day after the Last Supper Jesus is crucified and his Cross marked the middle of the 70th Week.

3. Verses 26b and 27b speak to the Roman siege of Jerusalem, which ironically began in the middle of 66 A.D and lasted to 70 A.D (Jewish Wars), which nicely adds up to 3-1/2 years...or the last half of the 70th Week. In fact Jesus even alludes to 27b in the Mount Olivet Discourse (Mat 24:15).

4. More strong supporting evidence of all this can be seen in Revelation. In this book we see various allusions to the last half the 70th week with such language as "42 months", etc.. This is because Revelation was written prior to 70 A.D. -- most likely right around the time of the Neronic persecution in Rome which also lasted about 3-1/2 years, ironically (if memory serves from early 64 to the middle of 67 A.D.) Revelation never talks about the full last week in Daniel -- only the last half of the last week because it was this half that remained to be fulfilled.

In case you're wondering, I do not believe the Seventy Sevens should be interpreted as literal 490 years. I see the 70 Weeks as symbolical weeks because scripture is crystal clear that Cyrus would be the one to issue the decree that would set the Jews free to return to the Land to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple (Isa 44:28; 45:13; 2Chron 36:22-23). I realize that this runs counter to very many who believe that it was Artaxerxes' decree that came much later that resulted in the temple being rebuilt. But scripture says differently.

Hope this helps.
 
Top of the Day to Ya, Carbon. I have morphed into Rufus over here <g>.

I believe the one who made a "strong covenant with many for one week" is none other than Jesus. He made that covenant at the Last Supper with his disciples...and, of course, by extension with all God's sheep. At the cross he put "an end to sacrifices and and offering", which God signified when he rent the thick curtain between the Holy Place and Holy of Holies from top to bottom. That supernatural acrt marked the beginning of the end of the Old Covenant era and the beginning of the New Covenant dispensation. 70 A.D., of course, marked the very end of the Old Covenant period.

Many misunderstand this passage due to the Hebrew parallelism between verses 26 and 27. In other words, 26a should be matched up to 27a, and 26b to 27b. When we match these texts up as I suggest, we a get a very different understanding of the prophecy, to wit:

Dan 9:26-27
26a After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. 27a He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

26b The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27b And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

NIV

These prophecies have already been fulfilled! In other words, the 70 Weeks is all history! Let me see if I can briefly explain this prophecy to you. Verses 26a and 27a are saying this:

1. 26a is saying that the Messiah will be cut off sometime after 69 weeks.

2. 27a He will confirm a covenant with many for one week. This covenant is made before he is cut off -- specifically at the Last Supper which technically was still in the first half of the 70th week. The way ancient Jews reckoned time,if an event occurred any time during a stipulated period, it fulfilled the entire period. So, by Christ making the New Covenant on the last day of the first half of the week, this would be reckoned by the Jews as him making it on the first day of the first half of the week. (Think of Christ's "three days" in the tomb. Yet, technically, the way the modern world reckons time, Christ was not in the tomb anywhere near 72 hours! But he was in the manner Jews reckoned time.) Anyway, the very next day after the Last Supper Jesus is crucified and his Cross marked the middle of the 70th Week.

3. Verses 26b and 27b speak to the Roman siege of Jerusalem, which ironically began in the middle of 66 A.D and lasted to 70 A.D (Jewish Wars), which nicely adds up to 3-1/2 years...or the last half of the 70th Week. In fact Jesus even alludes to 27b in the Mount Olivet Discourse (Mat 24:15).

4. More strong supporting evidence of all this can be seen in Revelation. In this book we see various allusions to the last half the 70th week with such language as "42 months", etc.. This is because Revelation was written prior to 70 A.D. -- most likely right around the time of the Neronic persecution in Rome which also lasted about 3-1/2 years, ironically (if memory serves from early 64 to the middle of 67 A.D.) Revelation never talks about the full last week in Daniel -- only the last half of the last week because it was this half that remained to be fulfilled.

In case you're wondering, I do not believe the Seventy Sevens should be interpreted as literal 490 years. I see the 70 Weeks as symbolical weeks because scripture is crystal clear that Cyrus would be the one to issue the decree that would set the Jews free to return to the Land to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple (Isa 44:28; 45:13; 2Chron 36:22-23). I realize that this runs counter to very many who believe that it was Artaxerxes' decree that came much later that resulted in the temple being rebuilt. But scripture says differently.

Hope this helps.
I’m in agreement.
 
What!? You're "in agreement"? You ain't no fun. I was lookin' for a good debate. ;)
Lol. I’ll defend the Amil position though. 😎
 
Lol. I’ll defend the Amil position though. 😎
Yeah...but I still have at least a toe in that camp. If nothing else, I can still sympathize with you kingdom pessimists. :whistle:
 
Daniel 9:27
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”


Question. Who is the he?
Why did you leave out verse 26?
"
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”"

A straightforward reading makes "he" the "prince who is to come". His people destroy the city, and then he comes and confirms a covenant with many for one week. (A peace covenant). However, that falls apart after half a week.
 
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