Daniel 9

[EarlyActs]

So, since there was times that were worse than what happened to 1st Century Judea, did Jesus make some mistake? I mean, they faced the loss of what, a few hundred thousand and the destruction of Jerusalem? I mean, That was Hitler's coffee break. Half the population of all the Jews in Europe wiped out. 6+ million Jews, as part of an attempt to eradicate them all. Also, Jesus says that His physical return would happen immediately after that all happens. Yet... we are still waiting over two millennia later.

This is where we think through the passage as though they’re with them. And the apostles did think that generation was final, even when talking about marriage, I Cor 7.

Once that event went by and history continued, the constant we have is just to reach all nations.

 

[EarlyActs]

I read it, since you mentioned it, so... could you point out where it says this, because I can't find it anywhere in there.

The term for her is in LXX Greek from a Levites wife. Terms for her start back in ch 17 . There were some political slants on this as to how close Judaism should ally with Rome, and some groups rejected any connection. This suggests that the whole Herods temple period is in question. The harlot should never have rid on the back of the scarlet beast Rome.

 

[EarlyActs]

Then why didn't he? Why was he clear that the fact that he (and the apostles) are believers shows that God did not reject his people. Why would he even suggest that if God had rejected his people, then Paul would not be a believer? Why? Perhaps if you actually dealt with the question instead of just tossing it to the side with a simple "he can say there was rejection generally". Paul did not say that. He was adamant that the fact that he is who he said he is, proves that God had not rejected His people.

…which shows the exception. All the Jewish believers were the exception to the rejection but they did not hold reins of power in Judaism.

 

[EarlyActs]

The term for her is in LXX Greek from a Levites wife. Terms for her start back in ch 17 . There were some political slants on this as to how close Judaism should ally with Rome, and some groups rejected any connection. This suggests that the whole Herods temple period is in question. The harlot should never have rid on the back of the scarlet beast Rome.

I’m traveling but tried the extensive notes in NET but not seeing it there. More later.

 

[armylngst]

This is where we think through the passage as though they’re with them. And the apostles did think that generation was final, even when talking about marriage, I Cor 7.

Once that event went by and history continued, the constant we have is just to reach all nations.

So Jesus didn't know either? There is a reason why HE would state that the tribulation will be a time that will be worse then any time before, and any time after. Why? He knows. All Jesus said He didn't know was the date of His return. He knows the events that will surround that time. (Just not when those times will be.)

So what does Jesus saying that the events of the tribulation will be unparalleled in all of history have to do with reaching all nations?

 

[armylngst]

The term for her is in LXX Greek from a Levites wife. Terms for her start back in ch 17 . There were some political slants on this as to how close Judaism should ally with Rome, and some groups rejected any connection. This suggests that the whole Herods temple period is in question. The harlot should never have rid on the back of the scarlet beast Rome.

However, John makes it clear that he isn't talking about a person. He was speaking of the Roman Catholic Church... That church still exists today, so the clock is still running on the time for fulfillment. Akso, the RCC didn't go off the tracks until after 1000AD.

 

[Marilyn C]

So Jesus didn't know either? There is a reason why HE would state that the tribulation will be a time that will be worse then any time before, and any time after. Why? He knows. All Jesus said He didn't know was the date of His return. He knows the events that will surround that time. (Just not when those times will be.)

So what does Jesus saying that the events of the tribulation will be unparalleled in all of history have to do with reaching all nations?

Actually, now that Jesus has ascended to the right hand of the Father in the Godhead, He does know when He will come for us, and later to deliver Israel and bring judgment upon the rebellious.

 

[Marilyn C]

This he is Jesus.
Who else but Jesus ushered in the COG? Was crucified, which put an end to sacrifices and offerings? And after this, the temple is destroyed in AD 70.

In context, 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Dan 9.
Who but Christ has done this?

I believe it is a serious error naming the he is Dan 9:27 the antichrist.

Why would Jesus make a covenant for one week? He is the covenant. God the Father says concerning Jesus -

`I will preserve you and give you as a covenant to the people...` (Isa. 49: 8)

 

[armylngst]

Actually, now that Jesus has ascended to the right hand of the Father in the Godhead, He does know when He will come for us, and later to deliver Israel and bring judgment upon the rebellious.

No He doesn't. He said that He doesn't know the day or the time, and is waiting for the Father to say, go. There is a reason why Jesus doesn't know, and that is because of the whole marriage thing. In the Jewish marriage tradition, the groom never knows when the father is going to send his son to get his bride. It is a mystery.

 

[Marilyn C]

No He doesn't. He said that He doesn't know the day or the time, and is waiting for the Father to say, go. There is a reason why Jesus doesn't know, and that is because of the whole marriage thing. In the Jewish marriage tradition, the groom never knows when the father is going to send his son to get his bride. It is a mystery.

Jesus is in the Godhead - equal, in harmony, and of the same mind.

The `bride` symbol is written in the OT and shown in the book of Ruth as the 4th requirement for Israel`s kinsman-redeemer.

 

[armylngst]

Jesus is in the Godhead - equal, in harmony, and of the same mind.

The `bride` symbol is written in the OT and shown in the book of Ruth as the 4th requirement for Israel`s kinsman-redeemer.

But Jesus is also human. Jesus was emphasizing that part. So Jesus, as the God-man, does not know. That is the point. And the Jewish marriage tradition is used to talk about the end times, and Christ's return. Don't read too much into scripture, because it doesn't change the fact that WE do not know, and cannot know. We can see signs that it is approaching, but that still doesn't tell us when. We will know when it is on top of us.

 

[EarlyActs]

Actually, now that Jesus has ascended to the right hand of the Father in the Godhead, He does know when He will come for us, and later to deliver Israel and bring judgment upon the rebellious.

The NT describes the final day as very swift, even an hour, and without anything Judaic. I dont know why that keeps getting inserted in light of Rom 11:30.

 

[Eleanor]

Consider the verse (for fun): "For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.""
Whose offspring?
Frame the scripture first. Israel was the chosen nation of God. As such, the Israelistes considered themselves God's people to the point that they could do no wrong. They are God's people, therefore they are saved and the Gentiles... no, not them. They aren't saved. The Jews believed salvation was their inheritance simply for being, God's chosen people. (I speak generally)
Here God sets the record straight. Just because you are a Jew, does not mean you have a place in God. Only those who come through Isaac are considered the children of Abraham. Everyone else is just a descendant. (Again, this is generally speaking.) Isaac is an archetype of Christ. The sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham was prophetic to what would happen at the cross. Jesus took the place of the believer who were to be sacrificed (figuratively speaking) for their sin. So, those Jews who accept the Messiah are Israel, are truly the children of Abraham, and not simply a descendant. They are the ones who come through Isaac, that is through Christ. (who was also of Israel, as a Jew.)

This is why there are three kinds of branches, though five are mentioned, in Romans 11. The Jew who is born again, which is the natural branch that was always a part of the tree. The unbelieving Jew, which is the natural branch that was removed from the tree for unbelief. The Gentile of faith, which is the foreign branch that is grafted into the tree. The unbelieving Jew who comes to believe, which is the natural branch that is reattached to the tree. The Gentile of faith who ceases to continue in God, which is the foreign branch that is removed from the tree after having been grafted in.

There are only two kinds of branches in the tree, believing Gentiles and believing Jews, of which the grafted branches far outweigh the natural branches to this day.

This should make it clear that the church is not Israel.

All those in the NT who believe in Jesus Christ are the church, including the Jews (Heb 11:40, 12:22-24).

The Gentile branches are foreign to the tree, but are grafted in. They remain foreign, but are a part of the tree in that the branch gets nourishment from the tree. They do not become natural branches. The natural branches (Jews) that are removed and reattached remain natural branches.

Paul's metaphor is about belief and unbelief in Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation.
Paul's metaphor is about being part of the one olive tree of God's one people.
It's about being cut off from God's people because of unbelief in Jesus Christ, which belief in Jesus Christ is saving faith, without which all are condemned (Jn3:18).

This does not mean that Israel and the church are divided, but that Israel is it, and the church became PART of Israel, but it did not take the place of Israel.

Yes, the Gentiles became part of the one olive tree, as was Israel.

In the New Covenant and church age, which is
the last times and end of the ages (1 Pe 1:20, Heb 1:2, 9:26),
the fulfillment of the ages (1 Co 10:11)
and God's new creation, , .exceeding his original creation (2 Co 5:7, Gal 6:15),
true Israel is part of the true New Covenant church of the one people of God,
the called-out assembly (Ac 7:38) going all the way back to Abraham (Ro 11:16-23) and including the OT saints (Heb 11:40).
God has only one NT spiritual people, the church, of both OT and NT saints (Heb 11:40, 12:21-24), which is
the bride of Christ (Rev 20:9-14) and the body of Christ (1Co 12:27) in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union (Eph 5:30-32).

The end of Revelation, and Zechariah 12 (yes there are other prophecies) deals with the branches that had been detached from the tree. God will reattach them. (I will stay away from the word ALL, but I believe it will be all... the branches that haven't been burned or ceased to exist due to death.) It will be for belief, just as Paul says in Romans 11. All who remain after the attempted destruction of Jerusalem by all who oppose Christ, will be saved by the grace and mercy of God. God will open their eyes to Him whom they had pierced.

Nowhere is all of either the Jews or the Gentiles being saved promised in NT apostolic teaching.
Rather, just the opposite is taught by the apostle, that only a remnant of Israel is being saved (Ro 11:1-5), and thus (in that manner, in a remnant only) all Israel--that is all true Israel, for not all Israel is Israel (Ro 9:6)--will be saved (Ro 11:25).

OT prophetic riddles, not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one inteepretation, must be interpreted in the light of apostolic teaching to be correct, for God does not contradict himself in his word.

Note how Paul says that Israel has not been rejected, because he (and others) were not rejected. Consider the rationality and logic of Paul in that statement. He is conflating individual Jews with Israel.

Sloppy handling of the NT word of God.

Paul clearly does not conflate individual Jews with all Israel. He conflates "his people" with those whom "God foreknew" (Ro 11:1).

If God rejected Israel, then God has rejected all who are of Israel, to include Paul and all the apostles. Since God did not reject them, then God has not rejected Israel.

Only when one is sloppy with and not true to the text, not uncommon among those who seek to make Israel the center of God's plan for all time and the church merely a parenthesis in time, rather the New Covenant and its church of the redeemed being the center of his plan for all time.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

This is where we think through the passage as though they’re with them. And the apostles did think that generation was final, even when talking about marriage, I Cor 7.

Once that event went by and history continued, the constant we have is just to reach all nations.

This is just not true, in Matt. 24:4-6 Jesus specifically tells his Disciples the time of the end is BY & BY or much later on, in verse 14 he puts his final stamp on this issue, he says the Gospel will be preached first unto all the whole world, and that only then THE END (70th week) would come. The Disciples were noy ignorant of geography, they knew how large China and India were, they knew of he Scythians (Modern day Russia), so they knew the Gospel would never be preached in their lifetimes, so to say they though al this would happen in their Generation is just nit true, its just you and others nit being able to tie the scriptures together, line upon line, you take snippets out of context, but refuse to add it all up properly. In other words you love "proving your own points", instead of proving God's truths on these points which takes mush more effort to dig out.

Jess told them in Matt. 24:9-13 they would all die as Martyrs.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

There are only two kinds of branches in the tree, believing Gentiles and believing Jews, of which the grafted branches far outweigh the natural branches to this day.

No matter what you say nor others, you will never do away with Israel's calling.

We are all Christians, do we all have the exact same calling? The same gifts? Of course not, and Israel has a different calling as a Nation that the Gentile Church, you or me not understanding God's word is not going to change His word and promises unto Israel. The Kingdom Age is Israel, they are married unto the Father, we are married (will be soon) to Jesus. We will not be on this earth during Jesus' 1000 year reign unless we died as Martyrs during the Beasts reign, don't believe that? God says just that.............in Rev. 20:4

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them(Church who returns with Jesus at the 2nd Coming): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they(only THEY who were Martyrs during the 70th week) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So, only those alive during the 70th week will b e qualified to reign with Jesus for 1000 years, that means none of us Pre Trib Raptured Church will be here on earth for the 1000 years, Jesus only needs so many underlings with Glorious bodies.

The Kingdom Age is coming, and Jesus will rule earth with men who still have sin nature for 1000 years. But why? This is why Satan does not get cast straight into hell, God will try him via these facts, He will juxtapose Satan's 6000 years oof rule on this earth, over mankind, vs. Jesus 1000 year rule. CASE CLOSED. Except Israel will flourish, unlike under Satan where he always tried to destroy them. And the rest of the nations will bring gifs every year unto the Lord Jesus Christ as he rules from Jerusalem. That CALLING is WITHOUT REPENTANCE, Paul says in Rom. 11.

 

[EarlyActs]

This is just not true, in Matt. 24:4-6 Jesus specifically tells his Disciples the time of the end is BY & BY or much later on, in verse 14 he puts his final stamp on this issue, he says the Gospel will be preached first unto all the whole world, and that only then THE END (70th week) would come. The Disciples were noy ignorant of geography, they knew how large China and India were, they knew of he Scythians (Modern day Russia), so they knew the Gospel would never be preached in their lifetimes, so to say they though al this would happen in their Generation is just nit true, its just you and others nit being able to tie the scriptures together, line upon line, you take snippets out of context, but refuse to add it all up properly. In other words you love "proving your own points", instead of proving God's truths on these points which takes mush more effort to dig out.

Jess told them in Matt. 24:9-13 they would all die as Martyrs.

And they did—in the 1st cent. You see there is a biological time stamp in Luke 23:38 and it is about this same turmoil.

I know this is difficult but please listen again to the dividing line as they first heard it:

These events in Mt 24:1-29 are about their time, generation. Many expressions were already used in Mt 10x. The expressions are 1st cent. Judean. He speaks directly, vividly, urgently. They all happened!

They then were told that ‘right after these’ there would be worldwide events, rescue and judgement.

Then he answers the time question saying ‘only the Father knows.’ Obviously that is not about what he just covered about 1st cent. Judea, which he knew would happen.

This and Two other passages allow for a delay in the judgement of the world: Mk 13 about the return of the Master and of course 2Peter 3, specifically answering this matter.

 

[Carbon]

No matter what you say nor others, you will never do away with Israel's calling.

What makes you think we want to?

 

[EarlyActs]

No matter what you say nor others, you will never do away with Israel's calling.

We are all Christians, do we all have the exact same calling? The same gifts? Of course not, and Israel has a different calling as a Nation that the Gentile Church, you or me not understanding God's word is not going to change His word and promises unto Israel. The Kingdom Age is Israel, they are married unto the Father, we are married (will be soon) to Jesus. We will not be on this earth during Jesus' 1000 year reign unless we died as Martyrs during the Beasts reign, don't believe that? God says just that.............in Rev. 20:4

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them(Church who returns with Jesus at the 2nd Coming): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they(only THEY who were Martyrs during the 70th week) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So, only those alive during the 70th week will b e qualified to reign with Jesus for 1000 years, that means none of us Pre Trib Raptured Church will be here on earth for the 1000 years, Jesus only needs so many underlings with Glorious bodies.

The Kingdom Age is coming, and Jesus will rule earth with men who still have sin nature for 1000 years. But why? This is why Satan does not get cast straight into hell, God will try him via these facts, He will juxtapose Satan's 6000 years oof rule on this earth, over mankind, vs. Jesus 1000 year rule. CASE CLOSED. Except Israel will flourish, unlike under Satan where he always tried to destroy them. And the rest of the nations will bring gifs every year unto the Lord Jesus Christ as he rules from Jerusalem. That CALLING is WITHOUT REPENTANCE, Paul says in Rom. 11.

The last line of Rom 11 is not that though. ‘Irrevocable’ is why some Jews are believers, cp v14z. But the last word is that all binding to sin and all mercy is now in the Gospel event and he says now 3x.

The olive tree analogy made it clear that faith in Christ is the membership card. Not a race-nation.

 

[EarlyActs]

No matter what you say nor others, you will never do away with Israel's calling.

We are all Christians, do we all have the exact same calling? The same gifts? Of course not, and Israel has a different calling as a Nation that the Gentile Church, you or me not understanding God's word is not going to change His word and promises unto Israel. The Kingdom Age is Israel, they are married unto the Father, we are married (will be soon) to Jesus. We will not be on this earth during Jesus' 1000 year reign unless we died as Martyrs during the Beasts reign, don't believe that? God says just that.............in Rev. 20:4

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them(Church who returns with Jesus at the 2nd Coming): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they(only THEY who were Martyrs during the 70th week) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So, only those alive during the 70th week will b e qualified to reign with Jesus for 1000 years, that means none of us Pre Trib Raptured Church will be here on earth for the 1000 years, Jesus only needs so many underlings with Glorious bodies.

The Kingdom Age is coming, and Jesus will rule earth with men who still have sin nature for 1000 years. But why? This is why Satan does not get cast straight into hell, God will try him via these facts, He will juxtapose Satan's 6000 years oof rule on this earth, over mankind, vs. Jesus 1000 year rule. CASE CLOSED. Except Israel will flourish, unlike under Satan where he always tried to destroy them. And the rest of the nations will bring gifs every year unto the Lord Jesus Christ as he rules from Jerusalem. That CALLING is WITHOUT REPENTANCE, Paul says in Rom. 11.

From the quotes of Genesis by the NT after taught by Christ, the calling is clearly to be missionaries of the Gospel to the ends of the earth. Acts 13:47–which is specifically about answering this question. It is a quote from Isaiah so that his synagogue audience understood exactly.

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

And they did—in the 1st cent. You see there is a biological time stamp in Luke 23:38 and it is about this same turmoil.

No, this means Israel praises Jesus as their Messiah when he returns, meaning they repent before he returns, at the 1335, which is 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the A.C. conquers Israel and THE MANY, in the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR), to become the Beast at the 1260. Pontus Pilate put the This is the King of the Jews inscription on the cross, Israel never accepted Jesus as their Messiah, many prophesies show this to be true. The first century has nothing to do with Matthew 24:15-31, that is end times or 70th week end. We see the first century in Matthew 24:4-13...14 ends the Church Age and begins the 70th week.

These events in Mt 24:1-29 are about their time, generation. Many expressions were already used in Mt 10x. The expressions are 1st cent. Judean. He speaks directly, vividly, urgently. They all happened!

No, you misconstrue the fig tree parable, it throws your whole equilibrium out of balance. All the language is by men in the fist century, so why wouldn't the expressions be such?

In Matt. 24:4-31 Jesus gives 10-12 SIGNS, the Temple is destroyed, the Earthquakes, Famines, Wars, false christs, Disciples being killed, the Greatest ever Troubles and the AoD, then THE A.C. & F.P. in vs. 24, the Sun and Moon going dark IMMEDIATELY after God's Wrath starts or the 1260 days of the DOTL which starts in Rev. 8. then we see 7 Trumps which complete God's Wrath via Rev. 8, 9 and 16.

So, in the parable of the fig tree it says this, this is not debatable, unless Jesus lied.

Matt. 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh{{ we can and should know THE SEASON }}:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation(The ONES that sees all of THESE SIGNS) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

So, who will see Jesus' Second Coming fulfilled? The Generation who sees ALL OF THESE SIGNS, so what is the very LAST SIGN? The Sun & Moon going dark, or the Fourth Trump of Rev. 8 !! Thus THAT GENERATION, living during the 70th week will indeed see Jesus' 2nd Coming.

These events in Mt 24:1-29 are about their time, generation. Many expressions were already used in Mt 10x. The expressions are 1st cent. Judean. He speaks directly, vividly, urgently. They all happened!

They then were told that ‘right after these’ there would be worldwide events, rescue and judgement.

Then he answers the time question saying ‘only the Father knows.’ Obviously that is not about what he just covered about 1st cent. Judea, which he knew would happen.

So, do you understand why Jesus said "No man knows the Day nor Hour except the Father in Heaven?"

It is referring to God and the appointed times all falling on New Moons, and this Israel never knew the EXACT Day nor Hour because they were on a Lunar Calendar, that is why Easter has to jump around on our calendar, it is not on one date like Christmas. In reality, Jesus has to fulfill all 7 Feasts, they were called Holy Convocations in the Hebrew which simply means Dress Rehearsals, so basically Israel were celebrating future world events way before the even understood what was going to come.

Jesus has fulfilled the Spring Feasts

1.) Passover (Jesus is our Passover and he died on Passover)
2.) Unleavened Bread (Jesus knew no sin, he was Unleavened)
3.) First-fruits (Jesus was the first-fruits of the grave)

Summer Harvest/Pentecost/Church Age

4.) Feast of Weeks ( Jesus is our High Priest in heaven, we are his body, we are harvesting souls for the Master/God as we speak, this was always all alone on the calendar unto itself, just as the Church Age is, and this Harvest always ended via the Last Trump, but they of course never knew the exact day nor hour because they had to wait on the New Moon phase, Israel were on God time !! So, they knew within a couple of days, they could all see the New Moo phase was close, so LIKEWISE we should be able to tell when the SEASON is upon us also, we just can not know the exact Day nor Hour !! So, the Jewish leaders sent two men up into the mountains to spy out when the new moon came in, then they would send word back and the Trumps (the Shofar) started sounding and they sounded in 9 sets of 11 or 99 times and on the very "LAST TRUMP" (#100) it blew longer and louder than the other 99 and officially ended the Harvest (Think Church Age). This is another reason to understand the Pre Trib Rapture. Jesus fulfills this Harvesting of Souls by being our High Priest in Heaven and calling us home. )

Fall Feasts yet to be fulfilled

5.) Feast of Trumps ( As shown above, this is Jesus calling us home Pre Trib as Rev. 4:1 shows us, Jesus is the LAST TRUMP, His voice sounds or quivers so only we can hear it. Jesus fulfills this by calling us home.)

6.) Feast of Atonement (Who must atone before the 2nd Coming according to Dan. 9:24-27? Israel of course. They do so as Zech. 13:8-9 shows us.

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (to tabernacle means to Dwell with God, and Jesus will rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years amidst his Jewish brothers. Thus Jesus fulfills all 7 Feasts in full.

Everything come to pass during the 70th week.