Consistent Hermeneutics: Calvinism vs Arminianism

[GeneZ]

@GeneZ

Out of curiosity I watched Ollison's you tube video "God Wants You Well (Session 18). I won't comment on all of it except to say it is all about what we can get from God and not about God at all. It is full of errors, contains no exegesis, no expounding on the word, full of lies.

In his early years Peter was sometimes full of error...

At another time, after he matured, God used Peter to write Scripture.

Just because someone is wrong on one point does not prove he is to be wrong on all points.

 

[Arial]

In his early years Peter was sometimes full of error...

At another time, after he matured, God used Peter to write Scripture.

Just because someone is wrong on one point does not prove he is to be wrong on all points.

Suit yourself but why is this the only part of my post that you addressed? Why didn't you answer the question I asked. There is no point in engaging with you if you won't actually engage.

 

[Arial]

You want exegesis and expounding? That is good.

You are a moderator. I give you permission to email me if you desire to.
Then I can show you what real exegesis and expounding entails.

This format forbids doing justice to what genuine exegesis and "expounding" entails.

grace and peace ............

You never do it. Reformed are doing it. It is just an excuse you make. The forum is the place for exegesis and expounding within the conversations you are in so others can give their insight and input. Not PM's. That is what the forum is all about. So do it since you say you know what it entails but never put it to use.

 

[ReverendRV]

Suit yourself but why is this the only part of my post that you addressed? Why didn't you answer the question I asked. There is no point in engaging with you if you won't actually engage.

There is a WHOLE lot of this going on when it comes to Forums. All the best stuff is ignored...

There ought to be something we can do about it...

 

[Arial]

God's mercy is his expression of love while He saves us.
Saving us by fulfilling in us the demands of His righteousness and justice.
Mercy in itself does not save.
Mercy reveals God's expressed attitude of compassion while He is in the process of saving us.

There is no such thing as "while God saves us." On one side there is justice and if it is justice you want them prepare to go to hell. Not even the redeemed have done a single thing to deserve being saved. Those who are saved are receiving mercy, not because of anything they did but because of what Jesus did.

Saving us because Jesus fulfilled the demands of His righteousness and then provided in His death the justice we deserve as our substitute.

Without mercy there would be no salvation.

Mercy is what God has for us and He is not in the process of saving us. He saved us when He quickened us to life while we were dead in our trespasses and sins. Sanctification is a process. Salvation is one and done.

Forgiving forgives.
Feeling mercy while forgiving does not in itself forgive.
Mercy shows love being expressed in the act of forgiving.
Its the forgiving that forgives.

Mercy is like inspirational background music while the act of forgiving is taking place.

It is God we sin against, it is only God who can forgive.
Mercy is not a feeling.
Mercy saves us from His wrath. Christ did the work required for our forgiveness. God showed He accepted this sacrifice when He raised Christ from the dead.
"It's the forgiving that forgives" is a nonsense statement.

I am more and more astounded at the way in which you dismiss and diminish God, now going so far as to compare His mercy to inspirational background music while He goes about forgiving us. I am beginning to question whether you have a clue what Christ did on the cross and why such dramatic means were necessary. You need to take a course in "Who Is God". You can do it by looking for Him in a straight through read of the Bible starting in Gen 1:1 and not need to rely on charlatans and false teachers who are worldly and also are not willing to accept God as He is and see no need to find out who He is. Quite satisfied with the one they have built.

 

[GeneZ]

Suit yourself but why is this the only part of my post that you addressed? Why didn't you answer the question I asked. There is no point in engaging with you if you won't actually engage.

I like to take one point at a time when answering.

Answering all the rest at once would only serve as a distraction..

I call it, "staying organized."

That makes what I respond to something others might be able to concentrate on,
rather than jumping all over the map and leaving them nowhere.

There is a reason for what I do. It does not mean I can not answer your other points.
I just do not like diluting everything down that addressing everything at once would cause.

Besides... what I chose to respond to? Answered you main point of contention.... without clutter.

 

[GeneZ]

There is a WHOLE lot of this going on when it comes to Forums. All the best stuff is ignored...

There ought to be something we can do about it...

Ask one question at a time...

Unless we are taking a written test.

 

[Arial]

Christ's work was to clear the obstacles of depravity out of the way which were preventing our souls from believing.

WOW!!!! Clear the obstacles of depravity out of the way?! Not only to you demean and dismiss God but you even do so with the cross, with the very person and work of Jesus.

What obstacles has He removed? What are they? WHat do you think He was actually doing on the cross? Answer that question at least. For all I know I am talking to an utter heretic or a troll.
Here are some questions I would really appreciate if you would answer, head on, direct, no deflecting or wandering off in another direction.
What is sin?
What does it mean that God is Creator and we are creature?
Why did Jesus have to be without sin?
What did He come to do?
How did He do it?
How does that apply to a person?
Could/would you worship the God we see in Job Chapt.1 and 2. Read them before you answer.

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

What does it mean to believe in the Lord Jesus?

 

[Arial]

I like to take one point at a time when answering.

Answering all the rest at once would only serve as a distraction..

I call it, "staying organized."

That makes what I respond to something others might be able to concentrate on,
rather than jumping all over the map and leaving them nowhere.

There is a reason for what I do. It does not mean I can not answer your other points.
I just do not like diluting everything down that addressing everything at once would cause.

Besides... what I chose to respond to? Answered you main point of contention.... without clutter.

You really have an excuse/answer for everything in order to maintain the superior, highly intelligent persona you are attempting to put forth.

There is nothing organized about your posts.
You are always all over the map avoiding the subject at hand or the content of posts. Ask anyone.
It was all the same subject. The only way it would get diluted is if it was not answered but deflected from.
No it didn't. As usual you were unable to identify the point I was making, did not actually respond to what was said, just responded to the post with we all make mistakes when I was showing you this guy you are promoting and following does not bother to know what the Bible really teaches, but teaches that is says whatever he wants it to say. That his video was full of unbiblical statements, lies, and unsupported assumptions.

You said nothing about the scriptures I used to refute the one thing, and you did not answer the question----the most important part of the post to be honest---could/would you worship God as we see Him in the first two chapters of Job? How about you avoid the clutter you brought into the conversation that required me to respond as I did above, and deal with this one thing.

 

[Arial]

Just because someone is wrong on one point does not prove he is to be wrong on all points.

In just that one video he was wrong in pretty much everything he said, because he was starting from the premise that Jesus died so we can control our life by using His name. The "If Jesus can do it we can do it too," Christianity that I have frequently heard come out of the mouths of Word of Life followers.

 

[Arial]

The Power of Grace: How You Can Access God's Unlimited Power to Accomplish the Impossible.​

The very title is an insult to God.

 

[Arial]

This format forbids doing justice to what genuine exegesis and "expounding" entails.

No need to go overboard or never do it because you don't have the time or space to do the whole Bible. Just do the scriptures that come up and respond to the exegesis that is given with the proper exegesis if you disagree. Give the old layman's good try.

 

[GeneZ]

WOW!!!! Clear the obstacles of depravity out of the way?! Not only to you demean and dismiss God but you even do so with the cross, with the very person and work of Jesus.

What obstacles has He removed?

By grace. Our wall of sin separating us from God.. and our inborn inability to choose for God.

 

[ReverendRV]

By grace. Our inborn inability to choose for God.

That's Calvinism...

 

[GeneZ]

That's Calvinism...

Calvinism only addresses that reality.

But the solution found in TULIP is wrong. Its not thew solution.

 

[ReverendRV]

Calvinism only addresses that reality.

But the solution found in TULIP is wrong. Its not thew solution.

That doesn't make sense; Calvinism addresses it, but the solution is not found in Calvinism/TULIP? How is addressing it (By grace. Our wall of sin separating us from God.. and our inborn inability to choose for God) not the solution? The solution, Irresistible Grace, is in TULIP...

But did you hear what you said? You said our Inability to Believe is resolved by Grace. You were Totally Unable to choose God without Grace because of your Native Depravity. This is Total Depravity; IE Calvinism...

 

[GeneZ]

That doesn't make sense; Calvinism addresses it, but the solution is not found in Calvinism/TULIP? How is addressing it (By grace. Our wall of sin separating us from God.. and our inborn inability to choose for God) not the solution? The solution, Irresistible Grace, is in TULIP...

But did you hear what you said? You said our Inability to Believe is resolved by Grace. We are Totally Unable to choose God without Grace because of our Depravity. This is Total Depravity; IE Calvinism...

Calvinism notes the dilemma of the depravity of man, making naturally born people unable to believe.
Calvinism addressed it.

But, Calvinism failed in its explaining how God gets man able to be saved.

Its not something to be ashamed of.
For, John Calvin was pioneering unexplored territory in a theologically primitive and corrupted world..
Even Christopher Columbus called the native Americans, "Indians," because he wrongly though he had landed in India.
Just the same, Columbus opened the way for the American continent to be explored and settled to God's glory.
Likewise, Calvin opened a way for theologians to begin thinking in a new ray of light.

My pastor said Calvin was the better exegetical teacher of the reformation. He also said it was not Calvin that
formulated the TULIP problem. That it was devised later by a follower of Calvin, Theodore Beza.

After the death of John Calvin, Theodore Beza and other Calvinist theologians reformed their doctrine around predestination in the matter of salvation and developed their various "doctrines of grace." Their major emphasis on divine sovereignty led to theological assertions that caused division in the Reformed theological community. Jacob Arminius, a Dutch student of Beza, countered some Calvinist teaching. In 1610, the "Arminians" crafted five articles which affirmed the election of believers but disagreed with the Calvinists' interpretation of election. In 1618, the Calvinists of the Dutch Reformed Church convened the Synod of Dort in order to condemn the Arminians and their five points. Dort's "five heads" of doctrine were later rearranged under the acronym TULIP.​

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https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/sbc-life-articles/the-tulip-of-calvinism/​

​

grace and peace ...........

 

[Manfred]

If man can not have the freedom to choose?
Why did God even bother?

Freedom to choose in the natural, or the natural man has the freedom to choose Spiritual truths?

A man can choose whatever he pleases. If you ask an Atheist today if he/she chooses to follow God, the answer will always be No!

If you present the gospel to the same atheist, and God opens his/her mind and heart to understanding, the answer will never be no.
When cut to the heart, the cry will be "what should I do now brother"

Once you are brought into the Kingdom of God through re-birth, you no longer have to choose God. You can still choose to sin, or not to sin.
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

There is no such thing as a man/woman born again by the freedom of the will of man.

 

[Manfred]

Again... your fundamental takes on no definition, unless you include the context, like you just did.

You ignore the context of John 3:16

There is a whole lot said from verse 1 that you seem to be ignoring.

Who will believe? The whole world? Those who choose to believe?
Please show in the context of John chapter 3 that those who choose to believe will be born again. That it is by the human will/choice that they born again.

Show in the context of Romans 3 that it applies to only Jews...

A double standard is no good at all.

 

[Manfred]

God sovereignly imputed to man our own area for having sovereignty.

If He did not?

We would not have been created in the image of God.

Our sovereignty covers deciding who and what we shall worship.

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. ​

Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone ​

to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9​

​

Its God's desire that none will perish.
Yet, God sovereignly chose to give man the sovereign power to decide.

Our sovereignty is honored by God when men choose to reject God's will.

If God truly created man in His image? He must honor our choices.

To be fair.

He gives the power of his Grace to eliminate our flesh's involvement, when we are presented a moment for decision.

Its not complex. Its just confusing when people can not see God as being different than how they would do things.
God is absolute Integrity - Holiness. He does not change. Its all according to his Righteousness.

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And suddenly context does not matter anymore....