Consistent Hermeneutics: Calvinism vs Arminianism

[Arial]

My pastor who was a Greek scholar showed us that the Greek indicates that these men in their minds became snooty towards God.

And, as we read we see God in return handed them over to the desires of their heart, which was to heed the voices of darkness. In that manner, they who were previously heterosexual, became PUNISHED by God, by handing them over to the demonic realm that brought them to having uncontrollable homosexual desire.

Many boast of being Greek scholars and are not. Those Jehovah's Witnesses who re-translated the Bible to fit JW claimed to be and were proven in court not to be. And anyway, what on earth does he mean by marginalizing what Paul was saying by in all his brilliance comes up with "they became snooty towards God?" And did you check it out for yourself? And does it change that Paul was laying a case for all that was to come by putting ALL men in the same boat and in need of a Savior. Creation does not offer salvation or a way of salvation. It shows us God exists and is Creator and we the creature are under Him.

Do you just repeat what your pastor says and not bother to check and see if it makes sense or even has any relevance to anything?

 

[ReverendRV]

Many boast of being Greek scholars and are not. Those Jehovah's Witnesses who re-translated the Bible to fit JW claimed to be and were proven in court not to be. And anyway, what on earth does he mean by marginalizing what Paul was saying by in all his brilliance comes up with "they became snooty towards God?" And did you check it out for yourself? And does it change that Paul was laying a case for all that was to come by putting ALL men in the same boat and in need of a Savior. Creation does not offer salvation or a way of salvation. It shows us God exists and is Creator and we the creature are under Him.

Do you just repeat what your pastor says and not bother to check and see if it makes sense or even has any relevance to anything?

Gangnam Style versus Berean Style...

 

[Arial]

Not going there with you either....

Nothing I can say would help.

God bless you.

I wasn't asking for help. It is helpful to know where someone stands on and issue in order to converse with them.

Could/would you worship God as we see Him in Job 1&2?

 

[GeneZ]

Many boast of being Greek scholars and are not. Those Jehovah's Witnesses who re-translated the Bible to fit JW claimed to be and were proven in court not to be. And anyway, what on earth does he mean by marginalizing what Paul was saying by in all his brilliance comes up with "they became snooty towards God?" And did you check it out for yourself? And does it change that Paul was laying a case for all that was to come by putting ALL men in the same boat and in need of a Savior. Creation does not offer salvation or a way of salvation. It shows us God exists and is Creator and we the creature are under Him.

Do you just repeat what your pastor says and not bother to check and see if it makes sense or even has any relevance to anything?

At one time (for my earlier days of testing of what he taught) I acquired my own personal reference library. I would visit between two libraries at two different Bible colleges nearby. And would frequent in my travels as many Christian books stores I could to search through the reference book section.

While I was at Bible college the one who later became my pastor, was recommended to me by the professor of ancient languages at the school. Who during WWll, worked for the US Army (via Harvard) as a translator.

Now, to be a name dropper.

His recorded lessons were ordered and studied by many pastors (some we know). He was asked by Billy Graham to privately mentor him.

He had to refuse Billy Graham's request because of the very high demand for feeding his congregation... which he fed six nights a week, and on some days twice in a day. Just the same. Many never heard of him. He shunned publicity. People find out by word of mouth. And, add to that, he never requested money for his materials.

His name? That is for another time if I am able to survive the critics here....

 

[GeneZ]

I wasn't asking for help. It is helpful to know where someone stands on and issue in order to converse with them.

Could/would you worship God as we see Him in Job 1&2?

Email me, please.

I can supply you (via email) if you wish, his exegetical teachings on Job as taught from the Hebrew text.

 

[Arial]

Email me, please.

I can supply you (via email) if you wish, his exegetical teachings on Job as taught from the Hebrew text.

His who? How about you just give yours. I don't share my email with just anyone. And how about you just answer the question I asked. And if you are only able to give his, whoever that is, why can't you post a link or give the name and I will look it up. I suspect he whoever he is has found a non exegetical way to remold that picture of God also but I would be very interested to see how and show you how he did it. It will fall apart.

 

[GeneZ]

His who? How about you just give yours. I don't share my email with just anyone. And how about you just answer the question I asked. And if you are only able to give his, whoever that is, why can't you post a link or give the name and I will look it up. I suspect he whoever he is has found a non exegetical way to remold that picture of God also but I would be very interested to see how and show you how he did it. It will fall apart.

You can always create a new email account to keep your regular one private.
I have such an extra account to keep my regular one alone.

You seemed to be asking for qualifications?
Or, condemning him before giving him a fair hearing?

Many boast of being Greek scholars and are not. Those Jehovah's Witnesses who re-translated the Bible to fit JW claimed to be and were proven in court not to be. And anyway, what on earth does he mean by marginalizing what Paul was saying by in all his brilliance comes up with "they became snooty towards God?" And did you check it out for yourself? And does it change that Paul was laying a case for all that was to come by putting ALL men in the same boat and in need of a Savior. Creation does not offer salvation or a way of salvation. It shows us God exists and is Creator and we the creature are under Him.

I have no idea how you got all that from the little I said.

You keep jumping to conclusions without warrant.

You are also in my opinion refusing the best way for one to find out for yourself, first hand.

I'm fine with that, if you wish.

Like I said you can always create a new email account that keeps you anonymous.

 

[Arial]

At one time (for my earlier days of testing of what he taught) I acquired my own personal reference library. I would visit between two libraries at two different Bible colleges nearby. And would frequent in my travels as many Christian books stores I could to search through the reference book section.

While I was at Bible college the one who later became my pastor, was recommended to me by the professor of ancient languages at the school. Who during WWll, worked for the US Army (via Harvard) as a translator.

Now, to be a name dropper.

His recorded lessons were ordered and studied by many pastors (some we know). He was asked by Billy Graham to privately mentor him.

He had to refuse Billy Graham's request because of the very high demand for feeding his congregation... which he fed six nights a week, and on some days twice in a day. Just the same. Many never heard of him. He shunned publicity. People find out by word of mouth. And, add to that, he never requested money for his materials.

His name? That is for another time if I am able to survive the critics here....

That is meaningless. Look at all the followers Kenneth Hagin spawned, and the mega churches and countless similar ministries with thousands of followers. And they are charlatans and false teachers every one. Why? 2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Tim 3:1-9 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind, and disqualified regarding the faith. But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

Open your eyes.

 

[Arial]

You asked for qualifications.
You are refusing the best way to find out first hand.

I'm fine with that, if you wish.

When did I ask for qualifications? I never did. Don't put words in my mouth.

The best way is give you my email? Not happening dude and it is not the best way, and certainly not the only way. Could/would you worship God as we see Him in Job 1 and 2? In order to say yes, would you first have to change what the book of Job says in the first two chapters? Is that what your guru did?

 

[GeneZ]

When did I ask for qualifications? I never did. Don't put words in my mouth.

Well. I guess you just know without a doubt he is on the same level of Jehovah Witnesses?

See how you set the tone for this?

That is meaningless. Look at all the followers Kenneth Hagin spawned, and the mega churches and countless similar ministries with thousands of followers. And they are charlatans and false teachers every one. Why? 2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

You just know. That it can't be good....

Too bad you are denying yourself the freedom to see for yourself.

But say there is no need. You just know...

....

 

[GeneZ]

That is meaningless. Look at all the followers Kenneth Hagin spawned, and the mega churches and countless similar ministries with thousands of followers. And they are charlatans and false teachers every one. Why? 2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Then? That must be the case... You just know?

Kenneth Hagin is bad company. You think I am being influenced on that low level of reasoning?

It will remain meaningless as long as you refuse what would give what I am telling you about, its meaning...

Do you approve of J. Vernon Mcgee? Dr. Donald Barnhouse?
Are you familiar with those men?
Are they apostates to you?

 

[makesends]

His who? How about you just give yours. I don't share my email with just anyone. And how about you just answer the question I asked. And if you are only able to give his, whoever that is, why can't you post a link or give the name and I will look it up. I suspect he whoever he is has found a non exegetical way to remold that picture of God also but I would be very interested to see how and show you how he did it. It will fall apart.

Many boast of being Greek scholars and are not. Those Jehovah's Witnesses who re-translated the Bible to fit JW claimed to be and were proven in court not to be. And anyway, what on earth does he mean by marginalizing what Paul was saying by in all his brilliance comes up with "they became snooty towards God?" And did you check it out for yourself? And does it change that Paul was laying a case for all that was to come by putting ALL men in the same boat and in need of a Savior. Creation does not offer salvation or a way of salvation. It shows us God exists and is Creator and we the creature are under Him.

You can always create a new email account to keep your regular one private.
I have such an extra account to keep my regular one alone.

You seemed to be asking for qualifications?
Or, condemning him before giving him a fair hearing?


I have no idea how you got all that from the little I said.

You keep jumping to conclusions without warrant.

You are also in my opinion refusing the best way for one to find out for yourself, first hand.

I'm fine with that, if you wish.

Like I said you can always create a new email account that keeps you anonymous.

The problem is that a person may be a very good Greek Scholar, and still get it wrong, usually by way of presumption in their POV. They may not even know they are doing that.

 

[GeneZ]

The problem is that a person may be a very good Greek Scholar, and still get it wrong, usually by way of presumption in their POV.

Yes, that is correct..... Glad you admit to that.

 

[GeneZ]

So God's enabling grace is applied only to some and not all people.

Otherwise it is not "enabling"

Is applied to all.

" Enabled" refers to being made able by grace to choose as your soul would want to choose.
No longer forced to choose one way only caused by the flesh's dominance over fallen man's soul..

Are you assuming that no one would reject God if they were having their soul enabled by God to choose as one truly desires?
While being made free from their depraved flesh's influence?

Well then...

Just look at Satan and his angels.
How did God create them? Being sinful? Having been created to reject Him?
No.. they were free to choose as they did. And, they chose to reject.

You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you."​

Ezekiel 28:14-15​

Which goes to show.
Even from his created perfect state? Which came right from the hand of God? Satan was able to reject God!

That is why even though men can not resist God in God giving them the needed grace to choose freely.
They can still choose to reject God even then! Just like Satan and his angels chose from their perfect state of being.

God gives the grace to believe to all men.

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." Titus 2:11​

Not all men when being made free to choose, will choose for God!
All men have been given by God's grace the freedom to choose as they personally wish to choose.

That is why all who reject must be held accountable for their rejection.

God is fair and just. No one will be with excuse .

To say, "grace makes you believe?"
Rather than, "grace makes you enabled to believe if you should so desire?"
They are not the same things.


God's grace makes all men enabled to to find salvation. But it does not guarantee all would want to choose to be saved.

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." Titus 2:11​

......... grace and peace!
............

 

[GeneZ]

His who? How about you just give yours.

If I could access you by private conversation I would.

 

[Manfred]

The Gospel is about sin and redemption. Not about believing in the Deity of Christ.

The gospel is about being set free from sin and rejection, and that it can only be achieved through the work of Jesus Christ the God-Man.

Man knows there is a God, but is content in his/her sin until conviction that Jesus Christ is LORD through the power of the Holy Spirit brings them to repentance.

Knowing about sin, and that you sin does not benefit you without the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Manfred]

The introductory stage of God's drawing is instilling God consciousness.
Its the foundational step in God drawing men.

Romans 1:18-19 declares that God himself made known to these men what was needed to be known to know God exists.

​

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness ​

of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God ​

is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.​

Romans 1:21 even says that their knowledge of God became "epignosis." They knew!

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, ​

but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

​

My pastor who was a Greek scholar showed us that the Greek indicates that these men in their minds became snooty towards God.

And, as we read we see God in return handed them over to the desires of their heart, which was to heed the voices of darkness. In that manner, they who were previously heterosexual, became PUNISHED by God, by handing them over to the demonic realm that brought them to having uncontrollable homosexual desire.

Unlike those men, many accept God consciousness in the drawing of God. Its why we see so much religion.


grace and peace .........

All men are snooty towards God until He convicts them of sin.

When do you suppose God handed "man" over to the desires of their heart?
Do you suppose this is at individual points in their lives!
Gen 3:14 The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
Gen 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”
Gen 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.”
Gen 3:17 And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
Gen 3:18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field.
Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

God does not draw goats. His sheep hear His voice.

You have a bad hermeneutic.
.

 

[Manfred]

All who choose to be humbled before God?

Who are you asking?

Is it your contention that you are saved because of your humbleness!

This is nothing but a made-up idea.

To whom does God give more grace! Paul most certainly was not humble while on his way to have all Christians killed.

More grace....
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

 

[Manfred]

" Enabled" refers to being made able by grace to choose as your soul would want to choose.
No longer forced to choose one way only caused by the flesh's dominance over fallen man's soul..

Oxymoronic!

Show me a man that knows (Spiritual Knowledge) with a 100% certainty that redemption is through Christ alone, who would choose to burn in hell.
Impossible!

 

[Arial]

Well. I guess you just know without a doubt he is on the same level of Jehovah Witnesses?

See how you set the tone for this?

Is that what I said? Why do you read everything with a chip on your shoulder?

You gave some things that "he" said and I showed you they were incorrect. Your answer to that was look at all his qualifications, which to you I guess means "he" can't be wrong. I then gave an example of "qualifications" not making a person right. I set no tone. That was the chip on your shoulder that reads everything wrong. What you didn't do was respond to what was said about how it was wrong.

You just know. That it can't be good....

Too bad you are denying yourself the freedom to see for yourself.

But say there is no need. You just know...

What exactly do you think it is that I said I know?

But fyi I am not having a conversation with your pastor, not debating with him, don't know him, don't need to, he is not here to defend of affirm himself. It is you who keeps bringing him into the conversation when all I asked YOU was; could/would you worship God as we see Him in Job chapters 1 and 2? Now go back over the posts and notice how you hem haw, deflect, change the subject, insist on private conversation on the matter, start talking about angels and salvation really being about God showing the angels something, blah, blah,blah-----but refuse to answer the question.