Can We Determine the Age of the Universe and Earth Biblically?

[EarlyActs]

From post # 370 "The distant lifeless objects simply provided day 1 light (either naturally or speeded), not God’s designed messages through the local objects. If Day 1 light was natural, the distant lifeless universe was ‘stretched out by God’ at some earlier time (the light-years math)"

You are making an assumption not based in scripture by using the speed of light as known & observed by science.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

God created the heavens, the whole universe, that fourth day and commanded her lights from the furthest celestial object to shine on the earth that day. So not only did God commanded those celestial bodies to come forth but commanded her lights to shine on the earth that 4th day.

Mt 22 is only one way a scientific problem like this is worked out. He had a very different context. You might as well say that every cloud flying is as much a miracle as the resurrection of Christ. Not a good idea.

Day 4 was not all the universe, because the earth was already there.

"I bought a car Wednesday! Brand new from the factory!"
"Great!"
"Last Sunday, I already had the front seat!"
???

 

[EarlyActs]

It does not mean that at all.

Who is 2 P 3 again?

For some reasons you are taking the viewpoint from another rather than the Lord Jesus Christ in understanding His words.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth....

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

2 Peter 3

I have to go by hours of literary study of Hebrew expressions. Not by a stray verse from I J 1! There are both parallelisms in Hebrew and there are hyperboles. This was a hyperbole, and it does not matter to the redemptive message of the Bible if lifeless, distant objects where there very long ago.

Thanks for talking. I'm assembling a 50 book on these things at the request of an apologetics group. There are many miscommunications out there that need to be cleared up.

 

[ChristB4us]

re all the host
It really depends on what he means by heavens. Some say the old English idea of host about such things meant the local bodies because they mark and signal things to earth; that is reason why they are not distant.

A second ongoing question has to be what kind of light is day 1 light. If you go by v2, it is the opposite of that--the darkness.

This is the least settled of what I'm saying, but is it really a big problem if this is the arrival of distant light? If the rest of the distant objects are lifeless, so what? Thus it may provide a rational support that is needed--that people can say there is a connection to what we know.

Do you think that distance itself is 'miraculous'?

Another possibility for all this is the entities, the principalities and powers of the universe and whatever happened to them. We know of revolt. We know 2 P 2 and Jude to refers to 'blackest darkness' as a prison for those in revolt. Was the earth a prison for them?

Now I understand your reference to 2 P 3 but you should read it in context as Peter was talking about the Biblical global flood. There is no point in referring to anything before creation because Peter is warning believers to endure to the end to be saved from being left behind from what is coming on the earth, a fiery calamity sent from the Lord.

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 P 2 prison is Abraham's bosom aka Paradise where the Old Testament saints had to stay before the promised seed could come to bring them into Heaven.

Jude's reference is referring to how Satan and his fallen angels are in chains for that judgment that is coming on them which is the lake of fire. They are still about causing trouble and even accusing the brethren in Heaven until the pre great tribulation rapture event for when he gets kicked out so that the festivities for the marriage supper may begin without him spoiling the joyous atmosphere.

 

[ChristB4us]

re wasteland
You are defying lexical work. Literary lexicons are collections of how terms were used in their day. We always consult them. Most of what we actually know about the Bible is due to good lexical references, collected daily. It is far more sensible than saying a body of water was suspended up in the sky, because that does not work in physics; or you have to say that physics has been altered. But the Egyptians already had this belief, and Genesis is answering it. People in their time thought the blue must be due to liquid.

I am defying lexical works of men, yes, I am when it is in error.

You can only define terms used in the Bible by the context of the message.

Example; the Greek term pneuma which is spirit, does not always refer to the Person of the Holy Spirit because sometimes it can be defined as mental disposition, vital principle, a man's ghost, demons, etc. all depending on how it is used in the scripture in context of that message.

So I am telling you, that you are getting "hand me downs malarkey" from that false teaching going around that Jeremiah 4:23 means the same thing as Genesis 1:2 and that is a mistake made out of apostasy as standing apart from the truth in His words.

It may not refer to Jeremiah 4:23 but that sure sounds like where your sources are getting that from. And so they are trying to apply Jeremiah 4:23 into Genesis 1:2 as if the earth was there but overflowed with water and pulling scriptures out of context like 2 peter 3 and 2 to fit their narrative. Not.

I hope Jesus is helping you to see that.

And yes, you have to prove all things by Jesus Christ because Biblical scholars, even in the footnotes of the KJV, for the description of the behemoth in Job 40th chapter has it assigned it as an alligator, or a hippo, or an elephant when the description is of a dinosaur. And yes, even Christians refuse to believe they are reading a description of a dinosaur when its tail moves like a cedar which is a tree and its stones ( male sexual organs ) are wrapped in its sinews. meaning they are internal.

Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

Only in the last decade has science discovered that the sex organs of male dinosaurs are internal and yet the Bible testified to this already.

So prove everything with the Lord Jesus Christ. trust Him as your personal Good shepherd to see the truth in His words rather than go to outside sources telling you how to understand what is written.

 

[EarlyActs]

Now I understand your reference to 2 P 3 but you should read it in context as Peter was talking about the Biblical global flood. There is no point in referring to anything before creation because Peter is warning believers to endure to the end to be saved from being left behind from what is coming on the earth, a fiery calamity sent from the Lord.

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 P 2 prison is Abraham's bosom aka Paradise where the Old Testament saints had to stay before the promised seed could come to bring them into Heaven.

Jude's reference is referring to how Satan and his fallen angels are in chains for that judgment that is coming on them which is the lake of fire. They are still about causing trouble and even accusing the brethren in Heaven until the pre great tribulation rapture event for when he gets kicked out so that the festivities for the marriage supper may begin without him spoiling the joyous atmosphere.

re "2 P 3 is not about the flood."
???

If you have some good references to cite, let me know, but I have hours of reading in these things. My 3rd year at Multnomah U Greek was spent comparing 2 P 2 and Jude. That was almost 50 years ago.

 

[EarlyActs]

I am defying lexical works of men, yes, I am when it is in error.

You can only define terms used in the Bible by the context of the message.

Example; the Greek term pneuma which is spirit, does not always refer to the Person of the Holy Spirit because sometimes it can be defined as mental disposition, vital principle, a man's ghost, demons, etc. all depending on how it is used in the scripture in context of that message.

So I am telling you, that you are getting "hand me downs malarkey" from that false teaching going around that Jeremiah 4:23 means the same thing as Genesis 1:2 and that is a mistake made out of apostasy as standing apart from the truth in His words.

It may not refer to Jeremiah 4:23 but that sure sounds like where your sources are getting that from. And so they are trying to apply Jeremiah 4:23 into Genesis 1:2 as if the earth was there but overflowed with water and pulling scriptures out of context like 2 peter 3 and 2 to fit their narrative. Not.

I hope Jesus is helping you to see that.

And yes, you have to prove all things by Jesus Christ because Biblical scholars, even in the footnotes of the KJV, for the description of the behemoth in Job 40th chapter has it assigned it as an alligator, or a hippo, or an elephant when the description is of a dinosaur. And yes, even Christians refuse to believe they are reading a description of a dinosaur when its tail moves like a cedar which is a tree and its stones ( male sexual organs ) are wrapped in its sinews. meaning they are internal.

Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

Only in the last decade has science discovered that the sex organs of male dinosaurs are internal and yet the Bible testified to this already.

So prove everything with the Lord Jesus Christ. trust Him as your personal Good shepherd to see the truth in His words rather than go to outside sources telling you how to understand what is written.

re outside confirmation
You are totally wrong. It is extremely important. And there are hundreds of examples from everyday life of finding out what words from everyday life mean. And yes, details of the Bible (the dinosaur) are spot-on, which is why I'm writing this piece (short book) on these things in Genesis. Your details are not consistent. You have the universe showing on day 4 but the earth is already hanging there. In what?

One great recent example is the discovery that an image (of God) is the term used by kings to mark boundaries!

We know that most ancient near east cultures thought of the sky as a body of water, a firmament. Either the physics was altered, or it is OK for the Bible to employ such an understanding (to refute the neighbor cosmology) and then show later that there was another source for the water of the cataclysm.

 

[EarlyActs]

Try this as a new question:
the 6 days of creation have a way of matching up 1-3 and 4-6. Ie, there is a sort of divine-human logic to it. There is no creating fish when there aren't oceans, is there?, etc.

So why does it matter if distant light from lifeless objects is arriving on day 1--I mean does it matter if those objects are truly that far away to the text? And anyway, you keep saying those objects are not there until day 4? Can you not see the difficulty you are creating for yourself--and then going off to quote Mt 22 to save yourself?

 

[makesends]

Understood, but if day 1 is about distant light arriving, we may have a more astute passage than your suggestion, one that allows for the distant light to be very old (2 Peter 3: 'ek palai' from of old, yet still a created thing).

I hope you do not think that distance itself is a mental cling!

When my father said, "how old was Adam?", he did not mean, "how mature did Adam's body seem", but "how actually mature was his body?" And before you say that is self-contradictory, consider once again that God is the inventor and master of time.

And, speaking of distance, even modern physics claims the relative compression and expansion of space/time (from what little I comprehend of it).

In the end, I'm guessing, we will finally see God's point-of-view, that this whole thousands (or billions) of years, to him was but an instant, come to pass with a mere, "Let there be".

 

[ChristB4us]

re "2 P 3 is not about the flood."
???

Is that you quoting me because I cannot find it in my reply to you.

If you are saying that 2 P 3 is not about the flood, then you read 2 P 3 again without using somebody's commentary to do it for you.

If you have some good references to cite, let me know, but I have hours of reading in these things. My 3rd year at Multnomah U Greek was spent comparing 2 P 2 and Jude. That was almost 50 years ago.

For the devil currently accusing the brethren until the pre great tribulation rapture event...

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

That woe is the devil is going to establish the New World Order and the mark of the beast system to buy & sell to survive after the third of the earth gets burned up Revelation 8:7 which I see as the western hemisphere along with USA Babylon in detail in Revelation 18th chapter.

The 3 angels in Revelation 6-12 are the ones that sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all remaining on the earth after the rapture event where out of those raptured are 144,000 honest virgin men that will follow the Lord around in Heaven as His personal choir in Revelation 14:1-5

The woe is realized when the 3rd angel warns everyone that taking the mark of the beast to buy & sell in order to survive in that NWO will receive the judgment of burning forever in that lake of fire.

Anyway, Jude's reference below is not testifying that the fallen angels are in that "prison" but are reserved for judgment to that lake of fire.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
That prison you referred to should be read in context;
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

There is no point for Jesus to preach unto fallen angels as if they are the ones in that prison, That prison is Abraham's bosom aka Paradise, where the thief met Jesus that day and where the souls of those Old testament saints were that He preached unto them in that prison.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Luke 16:19-31 has Jesus talking about the afterlife and Abraham's bosom which is beneath the earth and across that great gulf from hell and 1 Samuel 28 th chapter testifies to King Saul consulting with a medium to "bring up" the spirit of the prophet Samuel whom did prophesied his and his sons ends in the coming field of battle and so that is the prison spoken of in 2 Peter 3:19 when read in context that Jesus preached to.

This all ties in with Hebrews 11:8-16 in what those Old testament saints were waiting for in that holding place which is like saying a prison as Abraham's bosom aka Paradise

After His resurrection and His ascension, He brought the captivity captive to Heaven with Him so that Paradise and all the inhabitants are now in Heaven per 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 awaiting the pre great tribulation rapture event for when they will inherit their mansion in their resurrected forms in that City of God in Heaven at the table of the Marriage Supper per Luke 13:24-30

 

[ChristB4us]

re outside confirmation
You are totally wrong. It is extremely important. And there are hundreds of examples from everyday life of finding out what words from everyday life mean. And yes, details of the Bible (the dinosaur) are spot-on, which is why I'm writing this piece (short book) on these things in Genesis. Your details are not consistent. You have the universe showing on day 4 but the earth is already hanging there. In what?

By God's word since the universe had not been created yet but gravity was created that second day when God divided the water, from one firmament, the water planet from the other firmament the upper atmosphere or heaven as the scripture says which is that first heaven.

The second heaven is outer space. The third heaven is God's throne. FYI.

One great recent example is the discovery that an image (of God) is the term used by kings to mark boundaries!

We know that most ancient near east cultures thought of the sky as a body of water, a firmament. Either the physics was altered, or it is OK for the Bible to employ such an understanding (to refute the neighbor cosmology) and then show later that there was another source for the water of the cataclysm.

Well, I can see that after all that work for a book you are writing, the Lord will have to help you see the truth in His words for why you need to do some more research but with His wisdom & His discernment this time.

 

[ChristB4us]

Try this as a new question:
the 6 days of creation have a way of matching up 1-3 and 4-6. Ie, there is a sort of divine-human logic to it. There is no creating fish when there aren't oceans, is there?, etc.

But if you are going to apply days 1 - 3 as God recreating what was already there as if some cataclysm caused that earth to be overflowed with water... then what was God's judgment on it for?

Indeed, how can Adam be blamed for bringing death and disorder into creation because of sin if it was already there?

If there was no old earth and no age gap, I am not sure how you can say that it was already there when pushing that belief.

So why does it matter if distant light from lifeless objects is arriving on day 1--I mean does it matter if those objects are truly that far away to the text?

Because there is no purpose for it to exist until God finished the creation of earth that 3rd day after starting it on the 2nd day.

And anyway, you keep saying those objects are not there until day 4? Can you not see the difficulty you are creating for yourself--and then going off to quote Mt 22 to save yourself?

I believe you are having trouble reading scriptures as is and not seeing the power of God in creation.

So how about this? You ask Jesus Christ for help in seeing the truth in His words?

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[ChristB4us]

re "2 P 3 is not about the flood."
???

Is that you quoting me because I cannot find it in my reply to you.

If you are saying that 2 P 3 is not about the flood, then you read 2 P 3 again without using somebody's commentary to do it for you.

P.S. Breaking up that one long reply to you in post # 409

Sorry.

 

[ChristB4us]

If you have some good references to cite, let me know, but I have hours of reading in these things. My 3rd year at Multnomah U Greek was spent comparing 2 P 2 and Jude. That was almost 50 years ago.

For the devil currently accusing the brethren until the pre great tribulation rapture event.. Revelation 12:9-12.

That woe is the devil in Revelation 12:12 is that he is going to establish the New World Order and the mark of the beast system to buy & sell to survive after the third of the earth gets burned up Revelation 8:7 which I see as the western hemisphere along with USA Babylon in detail in Revelation 18th chapter.

The 3 angels in Revelation 6-12 are the ones that sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all remaining on the earth after the rapture event where out of those raptured are 144,000 honest virgin men that will follow the Lord around in Heaven as His personal choir in Revelation 14:1-5

The woe is realized when the 3rd angel warns everyone that taking the mark of the beast to buy & sell in order to survive in that NWO will receive the judgment of burning forever in that lake of fire.

 

[ChristB4us]

If you have some good references to cite, let me know, but I have hours of reading in these things. My 3rd year at Multnomah U Greek was spent comparing 2 P 2 and Jude. That was almost 50 years ago.

Anyway, Jude's reference below is not testifying that the fallen angels are in that "prison" you had referred to for applying but are reserved for judgment to that lake of fire.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[ChristB4us]

If you have some good references to cite, let me know, but I have hours of reading in these things. My 3rd year at Multnomah U Greek was spent comparing 2 P 2 and Jude. That was almost 50 years ago.

That prison you referred to should be read in context;

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

There is no point for Jesus to preach unto fallen angels as if they are the ones in that prison. That prison is Abraham's bosom aka Paradise, where the thief met Jesus that day and where the souls of those Old Testament saints were that He preached unto them in that prison since they were in a holding place until Jesus came to preach the gospel unto them.

This all ties in with Hebrews 11:8-16 in what those Old Testament saints were waiting for in that holding place which is like saying a prison as Abraham's bosom aka Paradise because of this truth below at the time Jesus was on earth.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Luke 16:19-31 has Jesus talking about the afterlife and Abraham's bosom which is beneath the earth and across that great gulf from hell and 1 Samuel 28 th chapter testifies to King Saul consulting with a medium to "bring up" the spirit of the prophet Samuel whom did prophesied his and his sons ends in the coming field of battle and so that is the prison spoken of in 2 Peter 3:19 when read in context that Jesus preached to.

 

[ChristB4us]

If you have some good references to cite, let me know, but I have hours of reading in these things. My 3rd year at Multnomah U Greek was spent comparing 2 P 2 and Jude. That was almost 50 years ago.

After His resurrection and His ascension, He brought the captivity captive to Heaven with Him so that prison aka Paradise and all the inhabitants are now in Heaven per 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 awaiting the pre great tribulation rapture event for when they will inherit their mansion in their resurrected forms in that City of God in Heaven at the table of the Marriage Supper per Luke 13:24-30 since that is still their hope they are waiting for per Hebrews 11:8-16

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)



I hope in Him that breaking up my reply in post # 409 helped as I am not sure I can break up this last reply in making the point any further.

 

[EarlyActs]

re "2 P 3 is not about the flood."
???

If you have some good references to cite, let me know, but I have hours of reading in these things. My 3rd year at Multnomah U Greek was spent comparing 2 P 2 and Jude. That was almost 50 years ago.

The skeptics said that creation had not been disrupted. They were only speaking of earth and all the way back to its start. It does not appear to be connected to the distant universe, even by Peter.

 

[EarlyActs]

But if you are going to apply days 1 - 3 as God recreating what was already there as if some cataclysm caused that earth to be overflowed with water... then what was God's judgment on it for?

Indeed, how can Adam be blamed for bringing death and disorder into creation because of sin if it was already there?

If there was no old earth and no age gap, I am not sure how you can say that it was already there when pushing that belief.

Because there is no purpose for it to exist until God finished the creation of earth that 3rd day after starting it on the 2nd day.

I believe you are having trouble reading scriptures as is and not seeing the power of God in creation.

So how about this? You ask Jesus Christ for help in seeing the truth in His words?

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

How about if you explain why you say the universe did not exist til day 4?

 

[EarlyActs]

But if you are going to apply days 1 - 3 as God recreating what was already there as if some cataclysm caused that earth to be overflowed with water... then what was God's judgment on it for?

Indeed, how can Adam be blamed for bringing death and disorder into creation because of sin if it was already there?

If there was no old earth and no age gap, I am not sure how you can say that it was already there when pushing that belief.

Because there is no purpose for it to exist until God finished the creation of earth that 3rd day after starting it on the 2nd day.

I believe you are having trouble reading scriptures as is and not seeing the power of God in creation.

So how about this? You ask Jesus Christ for help in seeing the truth in His words?

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Re recreating
Bc 2P3 says it was formed like pottery; the verb is from pottery usage. (this is why we use literary lexicons; I use the 900 page one ‘of the NT and other early Christian literature.’)

The pottery image at least allows for some time before day 2. Not evolution, just some time.

 

[EarlyActs]

But if you are going to apply days 1 - 3 as God recreating what was already there as if some cataclysm caused that earth to be overflowed with water... then what was God's judgment on it for?

Indeed, how can Adam be blamed for bringing death and disorder into creation because of sin if it was already there?

If there was no old earth and no age gap, I am not sure how you can say that it was already there when pushing that belief.

Because there is no purpose for it to exist until God finished the creation of earth that 3rd day after starting it on the 2nd day.

I believe you are having trouble reading scriptures as is and not seeing the power of God in creation.

So how about this? You ask Jesus Christ for help in seeing the truth in His words?

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Sin existed since the angelic revolt. Human sin did not exist until after creation.

Your theology is quite a muddle.

The prisons of rebellious angels appear to have existed before earth.

We don’t get to know what may have been punished that made earth what form it was in 1:2, but it is clearly described as being in the sense of ‘already that way.’

Greek prof, Multnomah: the universe is full of beings; it is not empty, not a vacuum. There could be any number of things going on, but we aren’t meant to know. The Bible is not complete about such.