Can We Determine the Age of the Universe and Earth Biblically?

[EarlyActs]

Day 4 is before humans had existed and even though God had this in mind for mankind, it does signify that He created them for His own purpose for signs, seasons, times, and years and that includes those distant lights to be shining on the earth that day.

I point out that at the time of the global flood, that was when the windows of the heavens were opened, because that greenhouse effect of that mist that was watering the whole earth, had pretty much obscured mankind's view of the heavens in Genesis 7:11.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

It never rained before the global flood.

So what would cause the fountains of the great deep to be broken up and to cause the mist to rise to condense into rain clouds to rain for the first time? What evidence in nature do we see that would cause such an event?

How about the asteroid impacts on the moon and on the earth? The ones on the earth would break up the fountains of the deep, say a mountain range that makes like Old Faithful at Yellowstone National Park for how the earth was watered by a mist, thus said impacts would force the waters from the great deep to gush forth.

How about the asteroid impacts on the moon that started its slowly moving away from the earth that its gravitational pull would cause the mist to rise to condense into rain clouds for the first time to rain on the earth?

So I can see how the windows were opened thus inferring because of that greenhouse mist, the stars were not so readily visible as they are today.

But that does not negate why God created those distant lights for and that was to shine on that earth that 4th day to govern for signs, seasons, times, and years as this was His word established in creation for that purpose that 4th day before mankind was created that 6th day.

Agreed. I don't know why you are talking about it. They had a different purpose and date than the distant universe.

 

[EarlyActs]

As my father would say, "How old was Adam when God made him?" I see no reason that God could not instantly make the universe 14 billion years old.

I've been told that would be God lying to us. My response was, "We write sci-fi stories about time travel and conceive of all sorts of possibilities of time manipulation, and congratulate ourselves for our ingenuity. Why then can't we allow that God, the very inventor of time itself, can use it as he pleases?"

Our problem is our mental cling to our view of time. We don't know how to think outside that construct.

Understood, but if day 1 is about distant light arriving, we may have a more astute passage than your suggestion, one that allows for the distant light to be very old (2 Peter 3: 'ek palai' from of old, yet still a created thing).

I hope you do not think that distance itself is a mental cling!

 

[EarlyActs]

You should consider that when Jesus comes as the King of kings, there will be a new heavens and a new earth and so why recreate or renew the heavens unless everything we know about the heavens was created that 4th day as He will renew it ALL when He comes to establish His reign on earth.

Do we not see the effects of sin in the universe in the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics where created order tends to disorder?

Death did not just come into the world because of Adam's sin but in all creation, including those distant sources of lights.

Those things are true but are not on-topic. I am simply fixing the fact that day 1 light is distant and day 4 is local, and it produces a rational case for the text.
You might reread my complete treatment. #370

 

[ChristB4us]

The Deut 4 citation is actually v32.

Deuteronomy 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

Since per my view that the heavens were created the 4th day, I see nothing contrary for how you are applying this scripture to mean otherwise for how you are misapplying this scripture.

1, the firmament was a concept from Egypt that the blue sky was water and Ra rode his boat across it daily. Gen 1 defeats Ra 2 ways. Day 4 objects were set in the firmament (in the blue sky).

Try not to take the world view of how the virgin Mary and the global flood was not an original story of the Bible and that other such references or terms came from other cultures.

2 Peter 2:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Just because Moses came from Egypt, is not a reason to infer that firmament came from Egypt as meaning how Egypt meant it for.

2, there is no evolution of course, that’s nonsense. But there may be other periods of time which are no concern to us. God may have launched the distant lifeless objects in the explosion referred to as the Big Bang. The earth already was formless and dark for the above reasons. The verbal recitation formula of Genesis supports at least some period of time when earth sat this way. So does 2P3 by using a verb from pottery -making, while saying the heavens were simply there from way back.

Big Bang is considered part of the evolution theory. Creationism refutes the theory by how the rotations of certain planets cannot be a result of the Big Bang but I would say by God ordering them into creation.

3, what concerns us is creation week and that was recent and was a 7 day week. Deut 4:20 is also unconcerned about any thing else in the vast universe. 2P3 is not concerned about distant objects when it refers to creation; nor were the skeptics. Only the earth. It is not even concerned about local objects. They were a stoicheia group who could not bear to think the earth had ever or would ever be disrupted, bc it was sacred and was to be worshipped and appeased.

Part of this detachment from distant objects is that they don’t communicate like the nearer moving (orbiting) ones. Nor could most be seen.

Again, this was before man and so should be seen for the purpose for why God created it to do that 4th day.

Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

if you believe in the Creation week then read Genesis 1:1 with Genesis 2:1-3 since that is the first creation account as there were no numbered chapters nor numbered verses originally in scriptures.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth......

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Do consider the ramification of "and all the host of them" since God created the heaven and the earth, then there was no heaven and no earth that first day.

 

[ChristB4us]

Agreed. I don't know why you are talking about it. They had a different purpose and date than the distant universe.

There was no distant universe nor heaven nor earth that first day of creation.

 

[ChristB4us]

Those things are true but are not on-topic. I am simply fixing the fact that day 1 light is distant and day 4 is local, and it produces a rational case for the text.
You might reread my complete treatment. #370

How can that first day light be distant if by that light the first day was how there was evening and morning that first day?

It cannot be the rational case for the text when that light established the very first day this the very beginning of time.

 

[EarlyActs]

Deuteronomy 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

Since per my view that the heavens were created the 4th day, I see nothing contrary for how you are applying this scripture to mean otherwise for how you are misapplying this scripture.



Try not to take the world view of how the virgin Mary and the global flood was not an original story of the Bible and that other such references or terms came from other cultures.

2 Peter 2:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Just because Moses came from Egypt, is not a reason to infer that firmament came from Egypt as meaning how Egypt meant it for.


Big Bang is considered part of the evolution theory. Creationism refutes the theory by how the rotations of certain planets cannot be a result of the Big Bang but I would say by God ordering them into creation.


Again, this was before man and so should be seen for the purpose for why God created it to do that 4th day.

Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

if you believe in the Creation week then read Genesis 1:1 with Genesis 2:1-3 since that is the first creation account as there were no numbered chapters nor numbered verses originally in scriptures.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth......

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Do consider the ramification of "and all the host of them" since God created the heaven and the earth, then there was no heaven and no earth that first day.

It will help going forward if you can take one topic per post, thanks. It is extremely difficult finding each point.

re Dt 4:32, I did a render of it, but before I realized I had written 4:20. The exodus is said to be the most unusual event of human history to date, but also says you could go back even before that to the ends of the universe, strengthening the comparison.

One topic per post, thanks.

 

[EarlyActs]

Deuteronomy 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

Since per my view that the heavens were created the 4th day, I see nothing contrary for how you are applying this scripture to mean otherwise for how you are misapplying this scripture.



Try not to take the world view of how the virgin Mary and the global flood was not an original story of the Bible and that other such references or terms came from other cultures.

2 Peter 2:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Just because Moses came from Egypt, is not a reason to infer that firmament came from Egypt as meaning how Egypt meant it for.


Big Bang is considered part of the evolution theory. Creationism refutes the theory by how the rotations of certain planets cannot be a result of the Big Bang but I would say by God ordering them into creation.


Again, this was before man and so should be seen for the purpose for why God created it to do that 4th day.

Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

if you believe in the Creation week then read Genesis 1:1 with Genesis 2:1-3 since that is the first creation account as there were no numbered chapters nor numbered verses originally in scriptures.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth......

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Do consider the ramification of "and all the host of them" since God created the heaven and the earth, then there was no heaven and no earth that first day.

re the 4th day
In order to "place" or "set" the local objects, the distant ones were there. This confirms a pattern in Gen: there are existing conditions, and they are finalized. The pairs of the 6 days is this way. The earth already being 'without form and void' is this way. It is finalized during the week.

Day 1 light which arrived day 1 (!) was from elsewhere. The local group was placed on Day 4.

 

[EarlyActs]

Deuteronomy 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

Since per my view that the heavens were created the 4th day, I see nothing contrary for how you are applying this scripture to mean otherwise for how you are misapplying this scripture.



Try not to take the world view of how the virgin Mary and the global flood was not an original story of the Bible and that other such references or terms came from other cultures.

2 Peter 2:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Just because Moses came from Egypt, is not a reason to infer that firmament came from Egypt as meaning how Egypt meant it for.


Big Bang is considered part of the evolution theory. Creationism refutes the theory by how the rotations of certain planets cannot be a result of the Big Bang but I would say by God ordering them into creation.


Again, this was before man and so should be seen for the purpose for why God created it to do that 4th day.

Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

if you believe in the Creation week then read Genesis 1:1 with Genesis 2:1-3 since that is the first creation account as there were no numbered chapters nor numbered verses originally in scriptures.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth......

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Do consider the ramification of "and all the host of them" since God created the heaven and the earth, then there was no heaven and no earth that first day.

re the firmament
We absolutely must consult the Egyptian theology because that's how we know Gen 1 subverted it! For details with visuals, see Lamoreux in Kraus/Meyer/Lamoreux three-way exchange video at Youtube. It took place at Wycliff College Toronto. Lamoreux explains that the term was in use, meaning the blue sky. Nothing about Mother Mary or denial of the cataclysm. That "water" then overwhelmed earth in the cataclysm. Of course, we know now that water actually burst upward and then descended.

The reason for framing the text this way was to defeat Egyptian and similar beliefs. And the Hebrews of course needed to affirm their independent thought while in Egypt. There was similar thought in Persia, confirming the source of the verbal recitation (this continued until Joseph collected all narratives and wrote Genesis, ie ch 39).

Try to stay on topic. One topic per post please.

 

[EarlyActs]

Deuteronomy 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

Since per my view that the heavens were created the 4th day, I see nothing contrary for how you are applying this scripture to mean otherwise for how you are misapplying this scripture.



Try not to take the world view of how the virgin Mary and the global flood was not an original story of the Bible and that other such references or terms came from other cultures.

2 Peter 2:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Just because Moses came from Egypt, is not a reason to infer that firmament came from Egypt as meaning how Egypt meant it for.


Big Bang is considered part of the evolution theory. Creationism refutes the theory by how the rotations of certain planets cannot be a result of the Big Bang but I would say by God ordering them into creation.


Again, this was before man and so should be seen for the purpose for why God created it to do that 4th day.

Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

if you believe in the Creation week then read Genesis 1:1 with Genesis 2:1-3 since that is the first creation account as there were no numbered chapters nor numbered verses originally in scriptures.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth......

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Do consider the ramification of "and all the host of them" since God created the heaven and the earth, then there was no heaven and no earth that first day.

re God ordering the planets
Just for the record, you are not understanding my view. See #370

There is no evolution of life. A bang may have occurred but this does not connect to life. God makes life full, complete, thriving when he makes it. Do you understand? If you do not, you are not referring to my view.

Then on day 4 God places all local objects (those which communicate to mankind). They do not land their randomly. I don't even think the solo earth (v2) was where it was randomly, but I do think it sat there for some time.

If God used a bang to make distant, lifeless objects, so what? It does not matter. It is not what Gen 1 is about, and 2 P 3 makes the same distinction.
The ancient near east man would not even have known of the extent of such a universe. His only concern that far away was the location of the Milky Way band.

 

[ChristB4us]

It will help going forward if you can take one topic per post, thanks. It is extremely difficult finding each point.

re Dt 4:32, I did a render of it, but before I realized I had written 4:20. The exodus is said to be the most unusual event of human history to date, but also says you could go back even before that to the ends of the universe, strengthening the comparison.

One topic per post, thanks.

How does going to the ends of the universe establish that historical event as going beyond its history as if the universe was not part of it?

Would it not by comparison to the universe, establish the universe as part of human history as given in Genesis?

 

[EarlyActs]

Deuteronomy 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

Since per my view that the heavens were created the 4th day, I see nothing contrary for how you are applying this scripture to mean otherwise for how you are misapplying this scripture.



Try not to take the world view of how the virgin Mary and the global flood was not an original story of the Bible and that other such references or terms came from other cultures.

2 Peter 2:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Just because Moses came from Egypt, is not a reason to infer that firmament came from Egypt as meaning how Egypt meant it for.


Big Bang is considered part of the evolution theory. Creationism refutes the theory by how the rotations of certain planets cannot be a result of the Big Bang but I would say by God ordering them into creation.


Again, this was before man and so should be seen for the purpose for why God created it to do that 4th day.

Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

if you believe in the Creation week then read Genesis 1:1 with Genesis 2:1-3 since that is the first creation account as there were no numbered chapters nor numbered verses originally in scriptures.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth......

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Do consider the ramification of "and all the host of them" since God created the heaven and the earth, then there was no heaven and no earth that first day.

re all the host
It really depends on what he means by heavens. Some say the old English idea of host about such things meant the local bodies because they mark and signal things to earth; that is reason why they are not distant.

A second ongoing question has to be what kind of light is day 1 light. If you go by v2, it is the opposite of that--the darkness.

This is the least settled of what I'm saying, but is it really a big problem if this is the arrival of distant light? If the rest of the distant objects are lifeless, so what? Thus it may provide a rational support that is needed--that people can say there is a connection to what we know.

Do you think that distance itself is 'miraculous'?

Another possibility for all this is the entities, the principalities and powers of the universe and whatever happened to them. We know of revolt. We know 2 P 2 and Jude to refers to 'blackest darkness' as a prison for those in revolt. Was the earth a prison for them?

 

[EarlyActs]

How can that first day light be distant if by that light the first day was how there was evening and morning that first day?

It cannot be the rational case for the text when that light established the very first day this the very beginning of time.

You are missing the POV of the text. 1st day of the local scene or 1st day of the entirety of the all distant lifeless objects? If the text is concerned with the local setting, then its fine. Can you prove by this or other text that there was no time before the earth sat there unformed?

We do not know if this is the beginning of time. We don't know how much time the earth sat formless.

 

[ChristB4us]

re the 4th day
In order to "place" or "set" the local objects, the distant ones were there. This confirms a pattern in Gen: there are existing conditions, and they are finalized. The pairs of the 6 days is this way. The earth already being 'without form and void' is this way. It is finalized during the week.

Day 1 light which arrived day 1 (!) was from elsewhere. The local group was placed on Day 4.

Why is that necessary for the distant ones to be there for the local ones to be placed or set?

What pattern in Genesis sets the existing conditions other than that the water was there?

If the earth was not there the first day, then neither were the heavens.

There is no point saying God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning if that first day of creation was not really the beginning of the creation of the heavens and the earth.

 

[EarlyActs]

How does going to the ends of the universe establish that historical event as going beyond its history as if the universe was not part of it?

Would it not by comparison to the universe, establish the universe as part of human history as given in Genesis?

He gave a further superlative. #1, nothing has been like this on earth. #2, go to the ends of the heavens, and nothing like it. #1 was dated to have to do with the creation of man, so to make a further superlative, #2 has to do with an older date, like 2 P 3 says.

 

[ChristB4us]

re the firmament
We absolutely must consult the Egyptian theology because that's how we know Gen 1 subverted it!

No, you don't "must consult the Egyptian theology". You are applying something man has taught as borrowed from other cultures, to claim unoriginality in the Bible.

For details with visuals, see Lamoreux in Kraus/Meyer/Lamoreux three-way exchange video at Youtube. It took place at Wycliff College Toronto. Lamoreux explains that the term was in use, meaning the blue sky. Nothing about Mother Mary or denial of the cataclysm. That "water" then overwhelmed earth in the cataclysm. Of course, we know now that water actually burst upward and then descended.

But dear brother, that is referring to the earth having already existed and therefore Genesis 1:2 was describing earth as a "wasteland" as other false teachers applied Jeremiah 4:23 as if meaning the same thing as Genesis 1:2 when the earth did not exist in genesis 1:2 nor did the heavens. That is part of old earth theology and the age gap theory FYI.

The reason for framing the text this way was to defeat Egyptian and similar beliefs. And the Hebrews of course needed to affirm their independent thought while in Egypt. There was similar thought in Persia, confirming the source of the verbal recitation (this continued until Joseph collected all narratives and wrote Genesis, ie ch 39).

There are plenty of creation stories and legends of the global flood in other cultures, but you are overlooking how scripture was inspired by the Holy Ghost. So there is no borrowing here.

Try to stay on topic. One topic per post please.

Trying.....

 

[EarlyActs]

Why is that necessary for the distant ones to be there for the local ones to be placed or set?

What pattern in Genesis sets the existing conditions other than that the water was there?

If the earth was not there the first day, then neither were the heavens.

There is no point saying God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning if that first day of creation was not really the beginning of the creation of the heavens and the earth.

Gen 1 is repeated by 2 P 3's verbs:
universe: existed from of old
earth: formed through water
The skeptics had no issue that dealt with the distant universe; the assumption that it was old seems to have been shared. But "creation" in 2 P 3 is always referring to earth-events.

You can easily get to a both or neither position here. Either the earth and the distant universe is very old, OR, both are very recent. But I do not. Peter's intention (to destroy the pagan belief about 'stoicheia') does not require disputing that the universe is very old.

If you read #370, you will be introduced to ancient recitation. This is from the famous study by Rabbi Cassuto, which saved Genesis from destruction by German critics. He listed all the features of verbal recitation formula. 1:1 is a title. It is not action in the text. There are about 15 of the formula samples. The tribe preserved its history by verbal recitation, using the formula.

 

[ChristB4us]

re God ordering the planets
Just for the record, you are not understanding my view. See #370

There is no evolution of life. A bang may have occurred but this does not connect to life. God makes life full, complete, thriving when he makes it. Do you understand? If you do not, you are not referring to my view.

Then on day 4 God places all local objects (those which communicate to mankind). They do not land their randomly. I don't even think the solo earth (v2) was where it was randomly, but I do think it sat there for some time.

If God used a bang to make distant, lifeless objects, so what? It does not matter. It is not what Gen 1 is about, and 2 P 3 makes the same distinction.
The ancient near east man would not even have known of the extent of such a universe. His only concern that far away was the location of the Milky Way band.

From post # 370 "The distant lifeless objects simply provided day 1 light (either naturally or speeded), not God’s designed messages through the local objects. If Day 1 light was natural, the distant lifeless universe was ‘stretched out by God’ at some earlier time (the light-years math)"

You are making an assumption not based in scripture by using the speed of light as known & observed by science.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

God created the heavens, the whole universe, that fourth day and commanded her lights from the furthest celestial object to shine on the earth that day. So not only did God commanded those celestial bodies to come forth but commanded her lights to shine on the earth that 4th day.

 

[EarlyActs]

No, you don't "must consult the Egyptian theology". You are applying something man has taught as borrowed from other cultures, to claim unoriginality in the Bible.

But dear brother, that is referring to the earth having already existed and therefore Genesis 1:2 was describing earth as a "wasteland" as other false teachers applied Jeremiah 4:23 as if meaning the same thing as Genesis 1:2 when the earth did not exist in genesis 1:2 nor did the heavens. That is part of old earth theology and the age gap theory FYI.

There are plenty of creation stories and legends of the global flood in other cultures, but you are overlooking how scripture was inspired by the Holy Ghost. So there is no borrowing here.

Trying.....

re wasteland
You are defying lexical work. Literary lexicons are collections of how terms were used in their day. We always consult them. Most of what we actually know about the Bible is due to good lexical references, collected daily. It is far more sensible than saying a body of water was suspended up in the sky, because that does not work in physics; or you have to say that physics has been altered. But the Egyptians already had this belief, and Genesis is answering it. People in their time thought the blue must be due to liquid.

 

[ChristB4us]

He gave a further superlative. #1, nothing has been like this on earth. #2, go to the ends of the heavens, and nothing like it. #1 was dated to have to do with the creation of man, so to make a further superlative, #2 has to do with an older date, like 2 P 3 says.

It does not mean that at all.

Who is 2 P 3 again?

For some reasons you are taking the viewpoint from another rather than the Lord Jesus Christ in understanding His words.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth....

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.