Argument against the Doctrine of the Trinity. (And keep it clean, please.)

[Eleanor]

His spirit did. The flesh counts for nothing.

Sinful flesh counts for nothing.

Jesus was not sinful flesh.

 

[Eleanor]

Before he became born as the man Jesus, He was the eternal word of God the Father, was Himself very God, correct?

Correct.

Jesus has two natures--divine and human--in one person.

His divine nature was God and had no beginning, while his human nature/flesh was not God and had a beginning.
God became flesh (Jn 1:14).

 

[Paul]

Before he became born as the man Jesus, He was the eternal word of God the Father, was Himself very God, correct?

No
The Father is the only true God and whether He always was is unknown to me as in I don't know. What I do know is that He is unbegotten.
As I have stated over and over Jesus is begotten. Gods Firstborn. (His spirit-not Deity) Before all created things except His own person.
The fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him was not begotten but gifted. The fullness is the Fathers Deity as He alone is Deity as the only true God. Jesus has always been the Son and He is the image of the Father and the exact imprint of the Fathers being as all the fullness lives in Him. He and the Father are one. While Jesus is not the Father He is all that the Father is and they are one.

Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.


The Son who was, His spirit, was in the body prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him. He is the very same spirit/person yesterday, today and forever. His spirit descended and asceneded to where He was before.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

 

[Eleanor]

No
The Father is the only true God and whether He always was is unknown to me as in I don't know. What I do know is that He is unbegotten.
As I have stated over and over Jesus is begotten. Gods Firstborn. (His spirit-not Deity) Before all created things except His own person.
The fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him was not begotten but gifted. The fullness is the Fathers Deity as He alone is Deity as the only true God. Jesus has always been the Son and He is the image of the Father and the exact imprint of the Fathers being as all the fullness lives in Him. He and the Father are one. While Jesus is not the Father He is all that the Father is and they are one.

Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.

Nothing comes forth out from within God that is not divine,
just as nothing comes forth out from within woman that is not human.
Both Jesus (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8) and the Holy Spirit (Jn 15:26) came forth out from within God the Father and, therefore, both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are divine (God).

 

[Paul]

Nothing comes forth out from within God that is not divine,
just as nothing comes forth out from within woman that is not human.
Both Jesus (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8) and the Holy Spirit (Jn 15:26) came forth out from within God the Father and, therefore, both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are divine (God).

The Father did send His Son into the world. The Father did send HIS Spirit into the world. The Fathers own Spirit is Deity as He alone is the true God. Jesus was begotten and all other created things were made through Him and some history of man took place before He came into the world. You seem to imply God spit out Jesus from His being directly into the world.

Setting aside how a being that has no beginning can be from any other person.

 

[Josheb]

Jesus did not exist before he was conceived.

Yet Jesus was the logos of God who is God, and he was with God in the beginning. Through him, and by him and for him were all things made. The logos became flesh, and the logos-made-flesh was named, "God Saves," a name that had been attributed to God for millennia, a name that is far above all power and rule.

 

[Paul]

Yet Jesus was the logos of God who is God, and he was with God in the beginning. Through him, and by him and for him were all things made. The logos became flesh, and the logos-made-flesh was named, "God Saves," a name that had been attributed to God for millennia, a name that is far above all power and rule.

I believe Jesus is all that the Father is. God in that context. I can state this (God was the logos) But He has always been the Son literally.

Yet Jesus calls the Father alone the only true God.

 

[Eleanor]

The Father did send His Son into the world. The Father did send HIS Spirit into the world. The Fathers own Spirit is Deity as He alone is the true God. Jesus was begotten and all other created things were made through Him and some history of man took place before He came into the world. You seem to imply God spit out Jesus from His being directly into the world.

The human Jesus did not exist before his conception in the womb of Mary.
The Divine Son is without beginning and without end.
The eternal Divine Son took on human flesh in time in Jesus, which Jesus did not exist before his conception in the womb of Mary (Jn 1:14).

Setting aside how a being that has no beginning can be from any other person.

But not setting aside the humanity which the Divine Son (who has no beginning) took on (incarnation, enfleshment) in coming to earth (Jn 1:1, 14).

Your issue is with Jn 1:1, 14--God the Son (Jn 1:1) becoming man (Jn 1:14 )n Jesus of Nazareth.

YOu either believe Jn 1:1, 14. . .or you don't.

 

[Paul]

The human Jesus did not exist before his conception in the womb of Mary.
The Divine Son is without beginning and without end.
The eternal Divine Son took on human flesh in time in Jesus, which Jesus did not exist before his conception in the womb of Mary (Jn 1:14).

But not setting aside the humanity which the Divine Son took on (incarnation, enfleshment) in coming to earth.

It's clear to me the Son who was and did exist, His spirit, was in the body that was prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him. The Son of Man. I agree the Son who was did not exist in human flesh before that point in history.

We are not going to agree.

 

[Eleanor]

It's clear to me the Son who was and did exist, His spirit, was in the body that was prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him. The Son of Man. I agree the Son who was did not exist in human flesh before that point in history.

We are not going to agree.

You just did. . .the eternally always-existing Son took on human flesh in time, which flesh did not exist prior to Jesus' conception in the womb of Mary.

 

[Josheb]

nt

 

[JesusFan]

The Father did send His Son into the world. The Father did send HIS Spirit into the world. The Fathers own Spirit is Deity as He alone is the true God. Jesus was begotten and all other created things were made through Him and some history of man took place before He came into the world. You seem to imply God spit out Jesus from His being directly into the world.

Setting aside how a being that has no beginning can be from any other person.

So which heresy are you part of then? seems like Arianism of the JW

 

[JesusFan]

No
The Father is the only true God and whether He always was is unknown to me as in I don't know. What I do know is that He is unbegotten.
As I have stated over and over Jesus is begotten. Gods Firstborn. (His spirit-not Deity) Before all created things except His own person.
The fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him was not begotten but gifted. The fullness is the Fathers Deity as He alone is Deity as the only true God. Jesus has always been the Son and He is the image of the Father and the exact imprint of the Fathers being as all the fullness lives in Him. He and the Father are one. While Jesus is not the Father He is all that the Father is and they are one.

Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.


The Son who was, His spirit, was in the body prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him. He is the very same spirit/person yesterday, today and forever. His spirit descended and asceneded to where He was before.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

Jesus is the ONLY begotten of the Father, and that means always eternally existed with the Father, and both were equally God

 

[JesusFan]

No
The Father is the only true God and whether He always was is unknown to me as in I don't know. What I do know is that He is unbegotten.
As I have stated over and over Jesus is begotten. Gods Firstborn. (His spirit-not Deity) Before all created things except His own person.
The fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him was not begotten but gifted. The fullness is the Fathers Deity as He alone is Deity as the only true God. Jesus has always been the Son and He is the image of the Father and the exact imprint of the Fathers being as all the fullness lives in Him. He and the Father are one. While Jesus is not the Father He is all that the Father is and they are one.

Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.


The Son who was, His spirit, was in the body prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him. He is the very same spirit/person yesterday, today and forever. His spirit descended and asceneded to where He was before.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

Is the Word of God eternal or created per the Greek text?