Are you born again ? Then here you are...

[Bob Carabbio]

Greetings,

Salvation is necessary due to the consequences of Adam and Eves transgression in the garden of Eden.

Correction: Salvation is necessary BECAUSE I HAVE SINNED (just like you).

HUMAN NATURE never changed, and Adam & Eve followed perfectly the sequence of Temptation outlined in James 1 And Adam was stupid enough to try to blame GOD for it all.

What DID CHANGE when Adam tossed God under the bus, and sided with satan, was our ENVIRONMENT - the earth WAS CURSED, and the serpent was cursed. Adam and Eve were NOT cursed. but their lifestyle had to change in order to survive FOR THEIR SAKES.

 

[Eleanor]

Correction: Salvation is necessary BECAUSE I HAVE SINNED (just like you).

You were born condemned by Adam's guilt (Ro 5:18), and by nature (with which you are born) an object of wrath (Eph 2:3).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You were born condemned by Adam's guilt (Ro 5:18), and by nature (with which you are born) an object of wrath (Eph 2:3).

Nope. I was born innocent as all people are. Then in time I started to SIN, and fell short of God's Glory like all people do. I didn't need any assistance from Adam to accomplish that.

 

[Eleanor]

Nope. I was born innocent as all people are. Then in time I started to SIN, and fell short of God's Glory like all people do. I didn't need any assistance from Adam to accomplish that.

Not according to Ro 5:18.

 

[fastfredy0]

Nope. I was born innocent as all people are.

Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Psalm 58:3, Isaiah 48:8, Job 14:4, Romans 5:12

Now, maybe you are the first one since Christ born innocent but the odds are VERY BAD.

 

[donadams]

The man's faith shows that he was reborn.
In the beginning of the church, baptism was accompanied with special signs of the Holy Spirit, as a testimony to the truth of the gospel.
There is no faith apart from the rebirth, for spiritually dead men cannot do anything spiritual.

Does baptism save us?
Thanks

 

[Eleanor]

Does baptism save us?
Thanks

No, salvation is through faith only.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Not according to Ro 5:18.

SO handle Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, 2 Chr 25:4.

 

[Eleanor]

SO handle Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, 2 Chr 25:4.

True, Ex 20:5, "punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation" is no longer in force, and the children do not inherit the sin of the fathers.

But Adam's sin is not inherited, it is imputed (Ro 5:12-14), which is the reason all died between Adam and Moses, even though there was no law to sin against and, therefore, no sin was accounted to anyone.

 

[donadams]

No, salvation is through faith only.

Really?

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Only one verse in scripture that says “faith alone”

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Faith alone avails nothing

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Makes salvation by faith alone impossible!
Thanks

 

[Eleanor]

Really?

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Makes salvation by faith alone impossible!

You have set Peter against Paul, who teaches that salvation is through faith, not by works (Eph 2:8-9), such as baptism.

The text of 1 Pe 3:20-21 reads: ". . .the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, an ark being prepared in which a few, this is eight souls, were quite saved through water. Which figure also now saves us, that is baptism, not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but an answer of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

When you consider the grammatical construction of Peter's context above in Noah and the ark,
baptism is a figure/symbol of the water which saved eight people in the ark, where the
flood is a figure of baptism, in that in both instances, the water that spoke of judgment (in the flood, the death of the wicked; in baptism, the death of Christ and the believer, Ro 6:2-4) is the water that saves; while
baptism is a figure of salvation, in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with him in these experiences.

The flood which saved is a figure of baptism which saves.

"Also now saves us," in the context of the rest of the NT, means saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death and resurrection (Ro 6:2-4).
This using of the symbol to refer to the reality is, as I understand it, what the Catholic church calls "sacramental union."

"answer of a good conscience toward God" is a commitment on the part of the believer in all good conscience to make sure that what baptism symbolizes in Ro 6:2-4 will become a reality in his life.

And now we have Peter and Paul in agreement in the truth of the matter, and not set against each other in untruth.

 

[makesends]

Really?

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Only one verse in scripture that says “faith alone”

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Faith alone avails nothing

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Makes salvation by faith alone impossible!
Thanks

So, can you show how that one verse, which you say shows, "faith alone", fits with the rest, which you say show otherwise? Or do you just leave it out since God is not the author of confusion?

Salvation is by Grace, through faith. Ephesians 2 That is pretty much universally accepted in Orthodoxy. And the context denies works having anything to do with it.

Since you apparently don't believe that Faith alone saves, I'm guessing you either reject some of Scripture, or you don't understand what Scripture refers to as "faith" in these passages.

 

[makesends]

SO handle Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, 2 Chr 25:4.

So handle Romans 5:18

 

[fastfredy0]

Makes salvation by faith alone impossible!

Your comments demonstrate you do not understand the doctrine of Faith Alone.

When one is born again the Spirit gives one the gift of faith, said gift alone being the demonstration that one is born again. So we are saved by the gift of faith alone but not a faith that is alone meaning faith causes one to trust/believe in God and results in good works actuated by the Spirit in us. Said works do not save us, but are a demonstration of regeneration and the gift of faith.

Only one verse in scripture that says “faith alone”

Galatians is all about Faith Alone. In summary it says:

• You are saved by faith
• You are not saved by works
• If you believe you are saved by works then that is another gospel and Paul's gospel is useless to you; rather, you must be saved by perfect obedience to the law if you take credit for any work being part of being born again.

So, if one believes the cause of their salvation is any work (like water baptism, circumcision, self-actuated faith?) then they are severed from Christ for they don't believe they are saved by Faith Alone. (Galatians 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law [any work]; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].)

Good luck brought on by your good works and teaming up with Christ ... or as some say: "Blessed predestination"

 

[donadams]

You have set Peter against Paul, who teaches that salvation is through faith, not by works (Eph 2:8-9), such as baptism.

The text of 1 Pe 3:20-21 reads: ". . .the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, an ark being prepared in which a few, this is eight souls, were quite saved through water. Which figure also now saves us, that is baptism, not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but an answer of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

When you consider the grammatical construction of Peter's context above in Noah and the ark,
baptism is a figure/symbol of the water which saved eight people in the ark, where the
flood is a figure of baptism, in that in both instances, the water that spoke of judgment (in the flood, the death of the wicked; in baptism, the death of Christ and the believer, Ro 6:2-4) is the water that saves; while
baptism is a figure of salvation, in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with him in these experiences.

"Also now saves us," in the context of the rest of the NT, means saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death and resurrection (Ro 6:2-4).
This using of the symbol to refer to the reality is, as I understand it, what the Catholic church calls "sacramental union."

"answer of a good conscience toward God" is a commitment on the part of the believer in all good conscience to make sure that what baptism symbolizes in Ro 6:2-4 will become a reality in his life.

And now we have Peter and Paul in agreement in the truth of the matter, and not set against each other in untruth.

Also many other verses like Mk 16:16
No one is saved without faith and baptism

Paul does not teach salvation by “faith alone”!
Salvation is a free gift of God but that does not mean we don’t have to cooperate and engage our intellect and will in perpetual believing and submitting to Christ and His church and suffering for His sake! But never “faith alone”!

Conditional:

Matt 24:14 He who endured to the end shall be saved.

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ.

Jn 3:16 believes. Perpetual state of faith.

Matt 5:8 the merciful shall obtain mercy.

Matt 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Jn 20:23 whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them.

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”

Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone. Mk 16:16 acts 2:38 acts 8:26 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21

And charity 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 13/13

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So handle Romans 5:18

SImple: I wouldn't had DIED because of ANYTHING ADAM DID. I would have died for MY OWN SIN.

So would you have, unless you became born again.

There were TWO THINGS cursed at the "Fall" the serpent, anf the EARTH / Environment. The humans were not cursed, but had to suffer the consequences of their actions, and for their sakes, begin to WORK for their physical survival.

 

[donadams]

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23


Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[donadams]

So, can you show how that one verse, which you say shows, "faith alone", fits with the rest, which you say show otherwise? Or do you just leave it out since God is not the author of confusion?

Salvation is by Grace, through faith. Ephesians 2 That is pretty much universally accepted in Orthodoxy. And the context denies works having anything to do with it.

Since you apparently don't believe that Faith alone saves, I'm guessing you either reject some of Scripture, or you don't understand what Scripture refers to as "faith" in these passages.

“Faith alone”
“accept Christ alone”
“Trust Christ alone”
And other fundamentalist traditions are not in scripture

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you say you can enter on your own by faith alone?
Thanks

 

[fastfredy0]

... gets out his .... this could go on forever.

 

[donadams]

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

Faith and baptism are equal and equally required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5


Baptism
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 28:19
Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5
Acts 2:38-9 & 8:36-38 & 23:16
Rom 6:3
Col 2:12
2 cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
2 Tim 1:10
Eph 2:1
2 cor 5:17
Eph 1:13 & 4:5 & 5:26
Titus 3:5
1 pet 1:2
1 pet 3:20-21