Carbon
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Lol. No, you didn't.
Are all men redeemed?
- Thread starter donadams
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makesends
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makesends said:
The question is absurd. If any man is redeemed, it is by Christ.
Why frame the question to force a false yes or no?
The question is absurd. If any man is redeemed, it is by Christ.
Why frame the question to force a false yes or no?
How do you come up with that? Where does reason come up with that as a logical result of what I said? It's getting even more absurd.
Mr GLee
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Dead saints sorry what?
Are the apostles considered patron saints as one of the 3,500 patron saints
Remember apostles are "sent ones" with no other meaning added .No different than my wife sending me her apostle to the supermarket on a mission It's never about the dying creatures.
It would seem God knew in advance that some would worship or venerate those with beautiful feet bringing the gospel as it is written (sola scriptura)
In the old testament using ceremonial law as shadows of the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that followed the cross, finishing the sufferings
Clean animals represented those redeemed by the lamb . The unclean those who believe not the gospel. they die and never rise to new spiritual life (break the necks)
Two the number God has spoken references.not by the witness of one. chapter 13 below and chapter 34
Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.
Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
Just as Lucifer the false prophet put his lying words in the mouth of a serpent . God sends a Ass to prophecy as one sent (apostle) with the living word of God.It powerfully stopped the madness of the false prophet, false apostle, Ballam.
That tells me Eternal God is not served by the dying hands of mankind. He can send a unbeliever with the gospel of salvation just as easily as one that does trust sola scriptura .He is not served by human hands as if he needed anything. He has no needs but satisfies all our needs
Numbers 22:28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? Three denoting the end of a matter the amen
The apostolic church sure did!
Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:2
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3
How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture itself says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15
First we must be redeemed then we have the possibility of justification!
Justification is only by faith and baptism
Ephesians 2:18
For through him we both have accessby one Spirit unto the Father.
Josheb
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Nonsense.
First..... you just used the authority of scripture to disprove the authority of scripture.
Second..... none of those verses (all of which were abusively proof-texted, btw), say nothing about scripture.
Third..... even if and where there are other authorities, they cannot contradict scripture - EVER.
Fourth..... what does that have to do with whether or not all men are redeemed?
Fifth.... even if and where there are other authorities, none of them are participating in this discussion.
Sixth..... even if and where there are other authorities, none beside Jesus possess the authority to decide whether or not anyone is redeemed.
Irrational nonsense.
Josheb
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Well, let's see.....
Matthew 5:14
You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Reason is our friend. Give it a try sometime.
Mr GLee
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Using the scripture define the word "apostle" and how it is used?
It's not that hard .just read and pray for understanding from our Holy Father, Holy See in heaven.( Not Rome)
makesends
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Restating your premise doesn't prove anything. After all this time, I would have thought you knew better than that.
Or if you think Eph 2:18 does that for you, then maybe you can explain how. To me, it demonstrates my premise.
Mr GLee
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What kind of baptism? Satan would make it all one in the same . His signature. what God calls more than one Satan call it one. What God call one Satan calls many.
The ceremonial baptism law using water to represent the water of the word.. .Gods doctrine that fall like rain It is shadow the unseen Holy Spirit .
Getting wet it adds nothing to salvation the water evaporates it cannot enter ones soul .
Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Aarons two sons dressed with ceremonial priestly garments used as a shadow of the unseen Holy Spirit were both washed ceremonially as a sign to the world. Not to themselves.They added their own what they thought was sacred a tradition of dying mankind. They were consumed, the priestly garments not a scent of smoke . We cannot add or subtract from God's living word as it is written
Josheb
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What if they happen simultaneously?
So much for the blood of Christ.
Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
.
Not only does Ephesians 2:18 not say anything about justification (once again demonstrating how often you mishandle scripture), but "by" faith is not the same as "through" faith. We are justified by many things (Christ's work, his blood, our faith) and NOT only one thing. You have committed "onlyism;" the practice of inserting into scripture the word "only" where it does not actually exist.
Yes, the saints have access to God by one Spirit. The regenerate non-believer has no such access.
Hebrews 10:14-23 (excerpted for the sake of space)
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified......... Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful...
The "we" is the saint, those who formerly walked according to the course of this world but now have been blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:2-4), those who will inherit salvation (Heb. 1:14), holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling (Heb. 3:1).
So, we again see a mishandling of scripture. On this occasion it is a very, very common mistake; a mistake that occurs every day in the soteriology boards in many a Christian forum. It is the error of taking verses written to Christians, about Christians and applying the to the non-believing unregenerate. Apples are not oranges. Non-believers are not believers. The unregenerate are not the regenerate. Two compare the two in any way as if they are identical is to create and assert a false equivalence. Fales equivalences are never sound. They are not sound thinking and they do not form sound doctrine or sound practice.
A person MUST be born anew from above to see the kingdom of God.
You've got some problems in your understanding of redemption and justification.
No no no! I use sacred scripture to disprove the doctrine of “scripture alone” or “scripture is the only authority”!
If the apostles are the light (truth) then how can scripture be the only authority or only source of truth?
One who is sent! Who has authority to send them?
Mr GLee
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You have offered a few verses like Satan in Matthew 4 who also challenged sola scriptura (as it is written ) Three times the Holy Father gave words to His prophet Jesus as it is written and again, Strike three .. .struck him out and he fled the scene.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 4:10 Then said Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Why serve a legion of dying fathers? Scripture the sword of the Spirit it does not cut its own self off so that men can follow a law of dying fathers
Acts 22:1-5 King James Version Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
Those who had put Paul on there most wanted dead or alive list tried to use the same kind of idea . . murder the misunderstood competition out of sight out of mind, the Christians, called the Way in Acts 24
In Acts 24 they tried to use their law of the legion of dying fathers to judge Paul in his new sect Nazarene by condemning all things written in the law and the prophets, calling it (sola scriptura) a heresy so they could keep the true heresy. I heard it through the legion of fathers grapevine .
Acts 24:5-6 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law(legion of fathers)
Paul turned thing of God right side up inspired from heaven not earth . He worshiped the one God as our Holy Father and not a legion of father as all together hey majke God the father. In the end making our invisible Holy Father with no power
Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Josheb
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You're off-topic doing so. This op is about whether or not all men are redeemed. Changing the topic to sola scriptura is either a dishonest bait and switch, a disingenuous effort to avoid scripture's answers to the op's inquiry, complete foolishness, or evidence of a lack of some cognitive faculty. Either way, there's no excuse for it and it has not place in this thread. Furthermore, EVERY time you quote scripture you are appealing to its authority. Every time you argue against sola scriptura saying there are other authorities, you're, again, off-topic AND arguing a straw man because sola scriptura never claims to be the sole authority in all things always and everywhere. It is a very specific doctrine very limited in its scope. A profound ignorance is evident in Posts 72 and 73. You do not know how to stay on topic, you do not know how to post op-relevantly, you do not correctly understand sola scripture, and you do not understand your own contradictions. Most of it is completely avoidable simply by sticking to the answer to the question asked!
Now.....
Do you have anything more to contribute in answer to the question, "Are all men redeemed?" or have you said all you can say on the subject?
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You mean eph 2:8 which refers to redemption not salvation
Mr GLee
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Redemption is salvation. It does not lead to sufferings wondering, wondering, wondering in a place called Limbo. . with no end of sufferings in sight.
Ephesians 2. By the powerful work of Christ's work of His faith, as a labor of his loved we are saved. Not anything from there dying powerless bodies of sin
Mr GLee
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You have offered those before. But offer no understanding.
Its is of the wiles of the evil one the father of lies to claim "it is writen" without evidence or understanding .
Mathew 4: 3_6 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Three with three denoting the end of a matter Three times the Holy Father gave words to His prophet Jesus. as it is writen, as it is writen and again as it is writen (sola scriptura) struck him out. He never saw the faith ball coming as power of the unseen invisible head of the Church
