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A problem with premillennialism

let me start with this for now. dispensationalism teaches that God has two plans of salvation. one for the Jews and another for the church. scripture teaches no such thing.
@CrowCross another unbiblical doctrine of dipsies is;
how they teach the parables of the kingdom found in Matthew 13.
According to them, Jesus came to earth bringing an offer of a theocratic kingdom to the Jews, who rejected their own Messiah. So, God then turned to dealing with the Gentiles, making the church age a parenthesis of sorts (yep. just an afterthought). This my friend, is walking the fence of heresy.
 
let me start with this for now. dispensationalism teaches that God has two plans of salvation. one for the Jews and another for the church. scripture teaches no such thing.
If that's what dispensationalism teaches...it's wrong.

I don't see what dispensationalism has to do with disqualifying a pre-trib rapture.
 
It's interesting that books like James, which speaks volumes about justification through works, which is the opposite of what Paul taught to the Body of Christ, James specifically states that his letter is to the 12 tribes of Israel, NOT the Church. Paul was the one and ONLY apostle to the Gentiles, not Peter, not James, and not John. For anyone would would doubt that Israel is bound by the same grace as the Church, only need read what is said in scripture to see the polar opposites of each other:

Romans 4:2, 6
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. ...
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

James 1:1, 2:17-18, 20-22, 24
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. ...
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ...
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Anyone who would claim to not see the dichotomy differences between what was required of Israel versus what Paul, the apostle to the Gentile body of Christ, they have made themselves prone to willful blindness. Paul clearly taught that we are not justified by works, but James taught the Hebrews that THEY are justified by works.

Many have tried to twist and warp this into fitting their preconceived notions to try and harmonize Paul and James, and it simply cannot be done!

In the tribulation, which is for Israel, in order to beat them to a pulp before they finally confess their sin in having pierced the Lord, and weeping bitterly over it in repentance, it serves no purpose for the Church to be appointed unto wrath, which Paul said is NOT for the Church.

But, hey, those who want to stay here and have to convert to Judaism to be saved under the gospel of the Kingdom, go for it. Then you will see what you're REALLY made of, which I suspect most will scream like little girls when the pains from the wrath of the Lamb are poured out, starting with the four horsemen under whom one fourth of the world's population will perish, and then into the trumpets, after the sixth of which another 2 Billion+ will perish, all the tough guys will be wishing they had rightly divided the word of truth when they had a chance.

When you rightly divide the word of truth, you don't get truth and falsehoods, for there is no falsehood within truth. What you get is two sets of truths, the combining of which only causes you problems given that they simply do not mix because they were never intended to be mixed.

MM
 
If that's what dispensationalism teaches...it's wrong.
that's what it teaches.
I don't see what dispensationalism has to do with disqualifying a pre-trib rapture.
this is just one part of many parts. the dispensational hermeneutic colors how we understand all of scripture.

there is a rapture alright but it does not come before the tribulation, i believe according to scripture we are in the tribulation. but, the rapture comes at the second return of Christ for judgement, as we are all going to meet the Lord in the air.
 
It's interesting that books like James, which speaks volumes about justification through works, which is the opposite of what Paul taught to the Body of Christ, James specifically states that his letter is to the 12 tribes of Israel, NOT the Church. Paul was the one and ONLY apostle to the Gentiles, not Peter, not James, and not John. For anyone would would doubt that Israel is bound by the same grace as the Church, only need read what is said in scripture to see the polar opposites of each other:
Sorry friend, they both taught the same.

Again, the dispensational hermeneutic colors how we understand all of scripture.
Here is evidence.
 
Sorry friend, they both taught the same.

Again, the dispensational hermeneutic colors how we understand all of scripture.
Here is evidence.

Well there you go...willful blindness.

MM
 
Well there you go...willful blindness.

MM
haha. denial.

it is sad that you cannot even consider something other than what has been jammed into your head. sure, it's fun stuff, but it's simply not true.

hope this helps
 
that's what it teaches.
As I said, there are several definitions of dispensation.
this is just one part of many parts. the dispensational hermeneutic colors how we understand all of scripture.
OK.
there is a rapture alright but it does not come before the tribulation, i believe according to scripture we are in the tribulation. but, the rapture comes at the second return of Christ for judgement, as we are all going to meet the Lord in the air.
" i believe according to scripture we are in the tribulation"....really?
Are you talking like Revelation style tribulation?

I believe we are near the beginning of the birth pangs of Matt 24. Wars and rumor of wars...that stuff. Things gonna get worse prior to the rapture...then at or shortly after the rapture the tribulation begins.
 
As I said, there are several definitions of dispensation.
It's all the same hermeneutic.
" i believe according to scripture we are in the tribulation"....really?
Are you talking like Revelation style tribulation?
this will be a lengthy discussion.
I believe we are near the beginning of the birth pangs of Matt 24. Wars and rumor of wars...that stuff. Things gonna get worse prior to the rapture...then at or shortly after the rapture the tribulation begins.
okay.
 
As I said, there are several definitions of dispensation.

OK.

" i believe according to scripture we are in the tribulation"....really?
Are you talking like Revelation style tribulation?

I believe we are near the beginning of the birth pangs of Matt 24. Wars and rumor of wars...that stuff. Things gonna get worse prior to the rapture...then at or shortly after the rapture the tribulation begins.
you do realize that premillennialism and dispensationalism are not the same as far as the timing of the rapture is concerned and it's completely different as an eschatological system? maybe you're not a dipsy?
 
If that's what dispensationalism teaches...it's wrong.

I don't see what dispensationalism has to do with disqualifying a pre-trib rapture.

do you see the rapture here?​

The Glorious Return​

Matt 24.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His [x]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
 
you do realize that premillennialism and dispensationalism are not the same as far as the timing of the rapture is concerned and it's completely different as an eschatological system? maybe you're not a dipsy?
I'm not dipsy...

I post what I believe to be the truth.
For instance I agree with you about 90 % of the time...probably higher. I simply disagree with your eschatology.
 

do you see the rapture here?​

The Glorious Return​

Matt 24.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His [x]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
No. I see this as the "white horse" coming. Rev 19:11
 
i agree.

okay

huh, funny you would think such. what makes you think that?

actually, I'm Amill
Amill, post mill pretty much the same.
Certainly not midrib, pre-wrath or pre-trib. certainly not preterist.
 
@CrowCross

would you tell me where scripture teaches, there will be an invisible or secret second coming?
 
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