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Without an Excuse 😶

Eisegesis is putting your own ideas/presuppositions into scripture; one's ideas/presuppositions come from theology.
Theological Eisegesis fits the bill.
Theology is the study of God. Eisegesis and exegesis pertain to the interpretation of texts. Eisegesis abandons any study of who God is in exchange for who it wants God to be and arrives at that idea from eisegesis itself along with no proper and properly applied hermeneutics, but selectively according to the person's desires.

For example: They focus on one single attribute of God, usually love in this case, and then say definite atonement can't be true because it would make God to not be love. And then continue on from there ignoring all His other attributes or stating that love is His supreme attribute and He sets the rest aside in favor of love. In the case of definite atonement they also seem to believe that it is more loving for God to have His Son die for everyone without exception and then introduce a condition upon that actual suffering and death, that exults fallen, rebellious humanity and their freedom far above His love for the Son.
 
Hi I would offer.

Many hear the gospel call but few are elected or chosen by God who is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires. No man can turn Him (Job 23)
Many is not all, correct?
 
Many is not all, correct?
yes it is as many as the Father gave to the Son of man Jesus . they alone are given the gospel power from the Father to move.
 
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Eisegesis: prefix"eis" means into
  1. A subjective method of interpretation by introducing one's own opinions into the original: opposed to exegesis.
  2. An interpretation, especially of Scripture, that reflects the personal ideas or viewpoint of the interpreter; reading something into a text that isn't there.
...
You mean like this:
To clarify. Because you do not believe that Jesus only died for those that God gives Him, ...
Jesus only died for ... 'reading something into a text that isn't there in scripture; so where did it come from?
 
...
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."...[/COLOR]

Whom did the Father draw?
a) Those whom God unconditionally elected before the foundation of the world, before any had done either good or evil?
b) John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 
Whom did the Father draw?
a) Those whom God unconditionally elected before the foundation of the world, before any had done either good or evil?
b) John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
I ask again. What do these scriptures----the one's I posted---mean?! I did not ask you to ask a question. I did not ask you to go find another proof text given with no exposition of it to talk about something else. I asked, and I ask again, what do the following scriptures mean? What are they saying?
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."
John 6:64-65 "Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted him by the Father."
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.
John 17:1-2 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to whom you have given him."

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Romans 8:29-30 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.
I will be waiting.
 
You mean like this:

Jesus only died for ... 'reading something into a text that isn't there in scripture; so where did it come from?

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Maybe its time to put the shovel down instead of continuing to dig yourself in deeper. "Because you do not believe that Jesus only died for those who God gives Him--" is not a scripture it is a statement. So it is not reading into or out of any scripture. I showed you where it came from, the idea that Jesus died for those whom God gave Him. No doubt in a number of places but one place where it is seen clearly and is clearly stated is in the scriptures quoted for you for the third time in post #86. Scroll up one and read them again and then answer the question of what do those passages mean? Do that honestly, without ignoring them or looking for alternate proof texts, or trying to find a meaning that you like or want through eisegesis, and you will have your answer to where the statement came from. It will only hurt for a little while and won't hurt at all unless you let pride and stubborness mean more to you than truth. If you face the fact that you can be wrong and submit to those words of God, you quite likely will leap for joy at having stopped looking at yourself, something you are probably not even aware of, and quite suddenly see God in all His power and glory in a way you never have before.

All that trust in the choices you have made will be as nothing. You will recognize that you believe who Jesus is and what He did, believe the gospel, because God has done a marvelous thing for you so great was His personal love for you that He, all by Himself, and because of the pleasure of His will, placed you in Christ. That Jesus knew your name and everything about you as He hung on that cross, and died for you, in your place, substituting Himself to face the wrath of God and gain justice for you, anyway, so you wouldn't ever have to face that wrath. Now that is personal. That is Christ dying with a specific purpose in doing so, and for a specific person.

And I promise you that if you look for truth in this and see it you will not become puffed up. All that puffed upness that already exists and goes unrecognized for what it is, will fly away like dandelion fluff. You will be humbled in a way that you never have before, humbled beneath the mighty hand of God in all His glory.
 
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:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Maybe its time to put the shovel down instead of continuing to dig yourself in deeper. "Because you do not believe that Jesus only died for those who God gives Him--" is not a scripture it is a statement. So it is not reading into or out of any scripture. I showed you where it came from, the idea that Jesus died for those whom God gave Him. No doubt in a number of places but one place where it is seen clearly and is clearly stated is in the scriptures quoted for you for the third time in post #86. Scroll up one and read them again and then answer the question of what do those passages mean? Do that honestly, without ignoring them or looking for alternate proof texts, or trying to find a meaning that you like or want through eisegesis, and you will have your answer to where the statement came from. It will only hurt for a little while and won't hurt at all unless you let pride and stubborness mean more to you than truth. If you face the fact that you can be wrong and submit to those words of God, you quite likely will leap for joy at having stopped looking at yourself, something you are probably not even aware of, and quite suddenly see God in all His power and glory in a way you never have before.

All that trust in the choices you have made will be as nothing. You will recognize that you believe who Jesus is and what He did, believe the gospel, because God has done a marvelous thing for you so great was His personal love for you that He, all by Himself, and because of the pleasure of His will, placed you in Christ. That Jesus knew your name and everything about you as He hung on that cross, and died for you, in your place, substituting Himself to face the wrath of God and gain justice for you, anyway, so you wouldn't ever have to face that wrath. Now that is personal. That is Christ dying with a specific purpose in doing so, and for a specific person.

And I promise you that if you look for truth in this and see it you will not become puffed up. All that puffed upness that already exists and goes unrecognized for what it is, will fly away like dandelion fluff. You will be humbled in a way that you never have before, humbled beneath the mighty hand of God in all His glory.
Excellent!
 
Got it:
Reading scripture through the lens of Systematic Theology is exegesis.
Reading scripture in context with itself is eisegesis.
You obviously don't know what systematic theology is. It is, essentially, comparing Scripture with Scripture, in context, to get the full understanding of what Scripture says about important topics. It takes into account all that Scripture says about those topics.
 
Excellent!
Thanks. I remember the day that happened for me, and the vast door that was opened in my mind and heart, through which I entered into the never ending, ever expanding, seeking and seeing God. His hand always upon me, even in times of darkness and trouble. He really did become to me a refuge and a fortress and a high tower, and the joy that comes in the morning. My Rock and my salvation.
 
...
"Because you do not believe that Jesus only died for those who God gives Him--" is not a scripture it is a statement. ...
True statement; neither scripture, Jesus, nor his apostles made that statement.
 
True statement; neither scripture, Jesus, nor his apostles made that statement.
You still haven't addressed the scriptures themselves. Read them, study them, from a neutral position and then if you still say that they do not show that Jesus didn't lay down His life for everyone without exception, but only for those who God gave Him, show me from those same scriptures that they do not. What do they say instead? If you still think they disagree with your proof texts, show me how they disagree. Put them side by side (as opposed to completely separated from each other) and show those I gave do not contradict your assertion of what your proof texts say. If you can do all of that systematically, hermeneutically, exegetically, then I will agree with you that they do not say Jesus died for those God gives Him and not for everyone without exception.
 
Whom did the Father draw?
a) Those whom God unconditionally elected before the foundation of the world, before any had done either good or evil?
b) John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Let's look at what you did instead of giving the meaning of all the scriptures I gave and noting their consistency with one another.

You took one verse, verse 45 out of the entire discourse of Jesus in the chapter, and specifically when He gets down to expounding on His own statements, as though none of that mattered. The only thing He said that needed to be considered at all, according to you was, "It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will al be taught by God'. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me---" And "everyone" then becomes in your view all people, past, present, and future without exception. In spite of what Jesus has said before and after. Without even giving a thought to what He said before and after. And you made Jesus to be contradicting Himself!

What systematic, proper hermeneutics, and careful exegetical seeking for understanding of verse 45 would do is find out in light of what has already been said, who these are who hear and are taught by God. And there is nothing difficult about doing so. They must be those who are drawn to Jesus by God, and the very same ones that are raised to life on the last day. The redeemed in other words. And they did not choose redemption for it says the opposite. Jesus tells them in verses 64-65 why it is they do not believe. Because it had not been granted them by the Father.

And along with verse 44, I gave all those other scriptures which still go uninterpreted by you, that say exactly the same thing along with the statement that those whom God grants to come to Christ are the very same one's the Father is giving Him.
 
True statement; neither scripture, Jesus, nor his apostles made that statement.
"I lay down my life for My sheep."

Are you going to apply this same method of determining truth to the Trinity? The Unitarians use that very same type of arguing to deny the Trinity. You could at least try to be consistent with yourself.
 
Taken from post #2.

"If Christ did not die for their sins, then they have an excuse."

@PeanutGallery
Your interpretation method is exactly the same as the following. PG said, "Christ did not die for their sins" so PG holds to limited atonement. @Arial has already pointed out that you ignore the context in post #93. PG, do you see how missing the context creates the quote mining fallacy? If you do, then why do you do it?
 
Don't you mean ""I lay down my life only for My sheep?"
Oh, good grief! Of course it means that Jesus laid down his life only for his sheep!

John 10:14-17 (VW)
14 I am the Good Shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must lead, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one Shepherd.
17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.

If Jesus laid down his life for every single person (not only his sheep), then all that explanation about the sheep would mean absolutely NOTHING; in fact, it would be worse than that, because it would be misleading and pointless.

Then there's this:

Eph. 5:25-27 (WEB)
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;
26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word,
27 that he might present the assembly to himself gloriously, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Would you honestly claim that Christ loved other women just as much as he loved his bride; and that he gave himself up for other women, not only his bride? If so, then your disgusting, blasphemous claim would make Jesus out to be a spiritual adulterer!
 
Don't you mean ""I lay down my life only for My sheep?"
"Only" is superfluous. But let's look at the scripture in its context anyway.

Jesus is explaining to unbelieving Jews who He is and what He is doing by using an analogy of the shepherd and his sheep, and that relationship. In John 10:1-6 He says it one way and they could not understand Him so He said it another way in verses 7-18. He is the door (verse 7) and if anyone enters that door, they will be saved. All others beside Him are thieves and robbers seeking to kill and destroy. (vv8-9). But Jesus is the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep, compared to the hired hand, not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, runs away, leaving the sheep to the wolves who snatches and scatters them. Jesus the good shepherd is willing to die to save the sheep. (vv10-13)

And then Jesus says a curious thing in verse 14. He says, "I know my own and my own know me." Now, this is a direct correlation to what He has already said and what He is about to say that is compared to a literal truth concerning literal sheep. They truly will not follow the voice of a shepherd they do not know, and they truly literally will follow the voice of the shepherd they know. That is the nature of sheep. It is true that no doubt very few people today know this or anything about sheep, and therefore miss the depth of what He is saying, but Jesus' hearers lived in an agricultural culture and knew it very well.

In verse 15 Jesus compares this relationship between Him and His sheep to that of how the Father knows Him and He knows the Father. Then He says that He has other sheep not of that fold (which would be Israel as that is who He was talking to) and the ones not of that fold would be Gentiles, and they would all be one flock. We know this from the results as told and demonstrated by the apostles, and in accordance with OT prophecy. In verses 17-18 Jesus says that is why the Father loves Him, because He lays down His life, that He may take it up again. This is what the Father sent Him to do, and this is what He is going to do. What? Die for those sheep, rise again from the dead defeating the enemies of the sheep, giving them life.

The Jews, not liking this, began to be divided because of His words. They obviously understood what He was saying in part. Some said He had a demon and was insane. Others remembered His miracles and said how can he have a demon and open the eyes of the blind.They did know only God could do that. (vv19-21)

Jesus was walking in the temple and Jews gathered round Him and demanded that they tell them plainly, not in parables and such but yes or no, are you the Christ? (vv22-24)
25. Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep" Here He begins to say what he said twice before in yet a different way. (I can surely relate!) 26. "but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30. I and the Father are one."

31. The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him." Don't be as they were and pick up stones to throw because you cannot or will not believe what Jesus said in these passages.

Only His sheep hear His voice, and they were always His sheep. They did not become His sheep. When they heard His voice, they followed Him. They were given to Him by the Father before the foundation of the world, and He went to the cross to rescue them from the wolves. And it is His sheep that He laid down His life for. Not all the sheep in the whole world and for all time.
 
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Only His sheep hear His voice, and they were always His sheep. They did not become His sheep. When they heard His voice, they followed Him. They were given to Him by the Father before the foundation of the world, ...
You favour theology's Unconditional Election over scripture which states that those who heard and learned from the Father's were given to the Son.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 
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