Without an Excuse 😶

[Mr GLee]

No one has an Excuse to not be Saved, so it's a Fallacy for the Lost to think they have a reason to not Believe. Since they are without Excuse, no one can say "God why did YOU make me this way, a Reprobate??". Since no one can say this, Provisionists should stop assuming Calvinists include Unconditional Election as part of the Saving knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Saying God made us Elect or Reprobate, is the same as saying God made some Vessels for Honor and some for Dishonor. Complaining about God making you a Reprobate violates the Verse that teaches it's wrong to complain about God giving some over to Reprobate Minds they already have...

Yes, it is God the faithful Creator who makes men different.

I would suggest it is good advice to let all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura ) as the final authority in matters of faith" the unseen things of God".

Some were puffing up the apostles above sola scriptura . God used that opportunity to show dying mankind he is not served by human hands as a will .If he desires he can use a unbeliever to preach the gospel therefore the power of his living word moving men to do his good will to his good pleasure ..

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Continues

1 Corinthians 4:18 Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.

It is emphasized in the previous chapter do not puff up the messengers (apostles) above the message the living abiding word of God.

God forbids what are called oral traditions of dying mankind .They have no power to raise the dead

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power

.1 Corinthians 4:4-8 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Apostles "sent messengers". not a highly puffed up venerable authority that rises above sola scriptura the legion of fathers used to lord it over the faith or understanding non- venerable benchwarmers, as a false teaching authority of dying mankind .

Define the word "apostle" according to the living word. Then their bottom or foundation drops out .

 

[Josheb]

No one has an Excuse to not be Saved, so it's a Fallacy for the Lost to think they have a reason to not Believe. Since they are without Excuse, no one can say "God why did YOU make me this way, a Reprobate??". Since no one can say this, Provisionists should stop assuming Calvinists include Unconditional Election as part of the Saving knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Saying God made us Elect or Reprobate, is the same as saying God made some Vessels for Honor and some for Dishonor. Complaining about God making you a Reprobate violates the Verse that teaches it's wrong to complain about God giving some over to Reprobate Minds they already have...

Wait a minute. Some clarification is in order.

When Calvinists speak of Unconditional Election properly they are not talking about the manner in which humans are created in the beginning. Neither is Paul in Romans 9. Paul is writing about post-disobedient conditions. Paulis writing in a post-disobedient world about post-disobedient conditions and what he wrote should not be applied out of context to pre-disobedient conditions. Everything God originally made was good. It was good and sinless. Both of Paul's examples, Abraham and Jacob, are examples of humans "made" honorable long after sin had entered the world. Correctly understood, his appeal to the Potter and His clay is intended to mean ALL the clay is adulterated and the question itself, "Why have you made me this way?" is sinful. The question itself is evidence of human depravity.

The creation story would be radically different if Romans 9 is applied to pre-disobedience. In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth and on the sixth day God made one human sinless and one human sinful. He made one human for noble purpose without any adulteration, and He made another for ignoble purpose filled with impurity.

That is NOT the creation account! That is not Paul's intent.

Calvinism agrees with scripture: Everything God originally made was good and sinless and God is not the author of sin. Man made man sinful, not God. Unconditional Election asserts that from the population of already sinful people (which is all people) God chose to save some and He did not base His decision on the merits of the ones being saved. The differences between being "made" reprobate and being "given over" to reprobation are significant and we should not think the two are mutually exclusive because In Genesis 3 and Romans 1 scripture provides how humans corrupt themselves and after doing so God adds to that corruption.


That is why no one can rightly ask "Why have you made me this way?" with any justification. That is how Provisionism twists and perverts Calvinism (and argues a straw man). Complaining God made you a reprobate when you did that to yourself (and would necessarily do so even if you were born sinless) is wrong for many reasons, not just because it is wrong to complain about God.

In Calvinism the lack of excuse is made clear in Calvin's commentaries on John 3 and Galatians 3.

"Christ introduces it in this passage, in order to show that he must be placed before the eyes of all by the doctrine of the Gospel, that all who look at him by faith may obtain salvation. Hence it ought to be inferred that Christ is clearly exhibited to us in the Gospel, in order that no man may complain of obscurity; and that this manifestation is common to all, and that faith has its own look, by which it perceives him as present; as Paul tells us that a lively portrait of Christ with his cross is exhibited, when he is truly preached, (Galatians 3:1)." (from Calvin's Commentary on the Gospel of John)​

No excuses.

 

[ReverendRV]

Wait a minute. Some clarification is in order.

When Calvinists speak of Unconditional Election properly they are not talking about the manner in which humans are created in the beginning. Neither is Paul in Romans 9. Paul is writing about post-disobedient conditions. Paulis writing in a post-disobedient world about post-disobedient conditions and what he wrote should not be applied out of context to pre-disobedient conditions. Everything God originally made was good. It was good and sinless. Both of Paul's examples, Abraham and Jacob, are examples of humans "made" honorable long after sin had entered the world. Correctly understood, his appeal to the Potter and His clay is intended to mean ALL the clay is adulterated and the question itself, "Why have you made me this way?" is sinful. The question itself is evidence of human depravity.

The creation story would be radically different if Romans 9 is applied to pre-disobedience. In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth and on the sixth day God made one human sinless and one human sinful. He made one human for noble purpose without any adulteration, and He made another for ignoble purpose filled with impurity.

That is NOT the creation account! That is not Paul's intent.

Calvinism agrees with scripture: Everything God originally made was good and sinless and God is not the author of sin. Man made man sinful, not God. Unconditional Election asserts that from the population of already sinful people (which is all people) God chose to save some and He did not base His decision on the merits of the ones being saved. The differences between being "made" reprobate and being "given over" to reprobation are significant and we should not think the two are mutually exclusive because In Genesis 3 and Romans 1 scripture provides how humans corrupt themselves and after doing so God adds to that corruption.


That is why no one can rightly ask "Why have you made me this way?" with any justification. That is how Provisionism twists and perverts Calvinism (and argues a straw man). Complaining God made you a reprobate when you did that to yourself (and would necessarily do so even if you were born sinless) is wrong for many reasons, not just because it is wrong to complain about God.

In Calvinism the lack of excuse is made clear in Calvin's commentaries on John 3 and Galatians 3.

"Christ introduces it in this passage, in order to show that he must be placed before the eyes of all by the doctrine of the Gospel, that all who look at him by faith may obtain salvation. Hence it ought to be inferred that Christ is clearly exhibited to us in the Gospel, in order that no man may complain of obscurity; and that this manifestation is common to all, and that faith has its own look, by which it perceives him as present; as Paul tells us that a lively portrait of Christ with his cross is exhibited, when he is truly preached, (Galatians 3:1)." (from Calvin's Commentary on the Gospel of John)​

No excuses.

For clarification, I meant what I said here to be based on Paternal Traducianism and Creationism; as if the good parts of both are true. Paternal Traducianism; Adam Procreates us, dead spirit and all. Creationism; God makes us Vessels when we are conceived/born, with Unfallen Spirits. God wouldn't have first made us Objects of his Wrath at the moment he formed us in the Womb. Due to the Curse of Original Sin, his Wrath abided on Us All before Creation; until he Made us Elect Vessels for Honor at our birth. His Wrath continues to abide on Reprobate Vessels he Makes for Dishonor at their birth. God Predestines either Election or Reprobation before the Foundation of the World, but he accomplishes it in Time by forming us in our Mother's womb. This summary is a combination of the Biblical parts of Paternal Traducianism, Infralapsarianism; and Creationism...

Forgive me, I edited this a lot before I got it the way I want it. I know this may not be 'Commentary Calvinism', but it's my commentary on these issues. I think it's closest to the Truth on the matter...

 

[David1701]

Tell us more about your "works righteousness regime".

Read the ten commandments, or Leviticus and Deuteronomy, or the parts about conscience in the NT. Everyone who is not in Christ, is under law/conscience and will be judged according to his works.

 

[David1701]

For clarification, I meant what I said regarding Paternal Traducianism and Creationism; as if both are true. Paternal Traducianism; Adam Procreates us, dead spirit and all. Creationism; God makes us when we are conceived/born, from the same Lump of Clay: IE Infralapsarianism. God wouldn't have made us Vessels of Wrath by forming us at birth; his Wrath abides on All until he forms us Elect or Reprobate at birth. God Predestines either Election or Regeneration before the Foundation of the World, but accomplishes it in Time by forming us in the womb...

What??? I'm sorry but this is a confused mess.

God making us in the womb is not equivalent to Infralapsarianism!

The Bible says nothing about God's wrath abiding on everyone, until he "forms us Elect or Reprobate at birth" - not even close. The Bible also does not say that we are formed as elect or reprobate at birth at all; in fact, God loved Jacob and hated Esau, before they were born, as Romans 9 states.

Election is not predestined! The elect (people) are predestined to salvation. The election (choosing) comes before the predestination (you cannot predestine people, without having chosen them first).

Election and regeneration are not accomplished by us being formed in the womb! Where did you get that from; it makes no sense at all?

 

[Arial]

If Christ did not die for their sins, then they have an excuse.

That assumes Christ owed them something, when in fact mankind owes Him.

 

[PeanutGallery]

That assumes Christ owed them something, when in fact mankind owes Him.

Christ does not owe anyone; that being said:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Man is without excuse unless theology creates one as in Limited Atonement.

 

[Carbon]

No one has an Excuse to not be Saved, so it's a Fallacy for the Lost to think they have a reason to not Believe. Since they are without Excuse,

That's true.

no one can say "God why did YOU make me this way, a Reprobate??"

Besides, they just don't care. If they can't have it their way, they just don't want it.

Since no one can say this, Provisionists should stop assuming Calvinists include Unconditional Election as part of the Saving knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Saying God made us Elect or Reprobate, is the same as saying God made some Vessels for Honor and some for Dishonor. Complaining about God making you a Reprobate violates the Verse that teaches it's wrong to complain about God giving some over to Reprobate Minds they already have...

A reprobate dont give a hoot.

God gives them over to a depraved mind is God giving them over to what they really desire.

 

[Carbon]

If Christ did not die for their sins, then they have an excuse.

An excuse for what exactly?
To not believe, or to blame God?

 

[Carbon]

The Parable of the Sower teaches that if the Reprobate will Believe the Gospel, they would be Saved. Now this is REAL Potential that Christ died for All...

I don't agree with this. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

I believe there are two types, one is the elect, and the other is the reprobate. A reprobate cannot change his mind nor can an elect.

Am I misunderstanding?

 

[Carbon]

Are you saying TULIP's Limited Atonement is false?

How can there be a "Real Potential that Christ died for All" if Christ did not really die for All?

We do not know who the elect are. So we need to proclaim the gospel to the world knowing some (many) will respond.

 

[Carbon]

How does one for whom Christ did not die become part of Spiritual Israel?

They don't.

 

[Carbon]

Is pride, presumption, and arrogance sins?

What do you think? Isn't it obvious?

 

[Carbon]

No, they do not have an excuse - no-one has. Everyone is accountable to live according to God's law and/or conscience and, if they do not repent and believe in Jesus Christ, that is the basis on which they will be judged - justly.

Amen!

 

[Carbon]

What hope is there for those for whom Christ did not die, even though they trusted in Christ, the Son of God?

As far as salvation goes? None.

 

[Carbon]

Tell us more about your "works righteousness regime".

Actually, synergism is works righteousness.

 

[Carbon]

No one was saved when Christ died for sins; God saves those who believe.

According to scripture, they were.

Wait, we are looking to scripture, right?

 

[ReverendRV]

That's true.

Besides, they just don't care. If they can't have it their way, they just don't want it.

A reprobate dont give a hoot.

God gives them over to a depraved mind is God giving them over to what they really desire.

Yeah, I tried to Conflate Reprobation with God Making Vessels of Wrath. Provisionists ask, "Why should we Worship a God who may have Reprobated me?". THAT'S asking why did you make me this way. This proves Provisionists use a Fallacy to reject Calvinism...

 

[ReverendRV]

I don't agree with this. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

I believe there are two types, one is the elect, and the other is the reprobate. A reprobate cannot change his mind nor can an elect.

Am I misunderstanding?

I use Christ's explanation of the Parable of the Sower, to say this. Jesus said if the Seed were not taken from the Trodden Soil, he would have to heal it. The Trodden Soil is Unconditionally Reprobate...

 

[Arial]

Christ does not owe anyone; that being said:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Man is without excuse unless theology creates one as in Limited Atonement.

That is an entirely incorrect view of limited atonement being created and confirmation bias read into John 3:16 in order deny any limitations put n the atonement except the ones imposed on it by your interpretation of that scripture. For one thing, John 3:16 does not stand alone but has surrounding text and also must be considered in the light of who God is as He reveals Himself---iow the whole counsel of God.

Jesus had already in John 3:3 Jesus answered him and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." And in verse 15: That whoever believes in Him may have eternal life, limited the atonement to those who are born of God and those who believe. John had stated earlier in John 1:12-13 But to all who did 4 receive Him, who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jesus verifies this in the scriptures quoted and even further when He says in verse John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Following verse 16 Jesus continues. "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

After using John 3:16 as a stand alone doctrinal verse, you then, and you are not alone in this, interpret world in a way in which it is seldom used, as applying to every individual without exception, and add the word choose in the place of believe. You do this, because you have been taught it and nothing else and you are not alone in that either. You have the majority standing with you, which is not really a good place to be standing. Wide and narrow gates and all. If you were to set all that aside for a moment and look at that view with logic and follow through you see that to say Jesus suffered and died for everyone without exception and yet more people did not have their sins paid for than did is to be neglecting something vital about the atonement. And that is what Jesus was actually doing and accomplishing on the cross when He laid down His life. It becomes a simple recognition that Jesus died to pay for my sins. But there was much more going on within that. He was taking sins punishment and actually paying a debt to satisfy God's justice against sin and the sinner. He did not offer payment. He made payment.

So to say that He made payment for everyone and then say He didn't is pretty bad. Limited atonement does not create an excuse for mankind. He never had an excuse for rebelling against God. I fail to see how you think it does create an excuse for man anymore that limited but unlimited atonement removes an excuse. Either way the ones who receive mercy are not the ones who receive justice. The ones who receive mercy deserve justice just as much as the ones who receive justice. It is by the grace of God, and the work of Jesus, not the choice of men, that they receive mercy.